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Ryzen overclocking - disabling cores

Quite simply, could disabling cores and providing adequate cooling allow for a ryzen CPU to be overclocked to such a degree it's capabilities become more competitive with intel's on single threaded experiences?

To me, with my lack of extensive cpu knowledge, this sounds almost possible to perform, either as a consumer or for amd to do with a few tweaks and creating another line of CPUs to ship with fewer cores and higher clocks, or would the set number of instructions, architecture, and cache present prevent this from possibly happening?

 

I would love to hear your opinions on this matter or technical feedback as to why this would or would not be possible.

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Disabling cores tends to allow for a higher overclock but the difference in performance isn't worth sacrificing cores just for 300MHz, especially if it's the 1800X.

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interesting...

 

I suppose this brings up the question then if AMD did this themselves by instead manufacturing it with half the cores could a second line of ryzen appear offering that same single thread and gaming performance for significantly cheaper and with a slight boost considering the speed increase due a lower TDP

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6 minutes ago, PrancingCheddar said:

interesting...

 

I suppose this brings up the question then if AMD did this themselves by instead manufacturing it with half the cores could a second line of ryzen appear offering that same single thread and gaming performance for significantly cheaper and with a slight boost considering the speed increase due a lower TDP

well they basically do this already. the chips will clock higher if your only using a few cores, and if you r not using a core its off and not running. Thats what the c states do.

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49 minutes ago, PrancingCheddar said:

interesting...

 

I suppose this brings up the question then if AMD did this themselves by instead manufacturing it with half the cores could a second line of ryzen appear offering that same single thread and gaming performance for significantly cheaper and with a slight boost considering the speed increase due a lower TDP

You mean Ryzen R5 and R3?

That's an F in the profile pic

 

 

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This would be an interesting test/benchmark. If disabling some cores  - 2, 3, 4, with and without SMT etc. - and overclocking the rest improves gaming performance, it could be worth doing once in a while, especially as it can be done in the Windows utility if I understand correctly (a reboot would be required, but it's still simpler that adjusting settings in UEFI and modern systems reboot very fast compared to, say, five years ago). So far I haven't seen any data on this. Has anyone? I'm not really interested in theoretical speculation - that I can do for myself. It is an interesting empirical question: how much could you push the overclock and what impact it would have on gaming. 

I can't help but wonder at how much disparity there is between Ryzen's relative performance (to 6900k, for example) in MT workloads and gaming and so far I haven't really found any convincing explanation (though it seems optimization may be somehow more important in games than in other applications - not optimization for number of cores but for architecture as what I have in mind is relative performance to Intel 8 cores).

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Nick Shih said on overclock.net

 

Quote

Hi Guys

just saw this article accidentally .

I have no plan to build X370 OC formula for AM4 so far , AMD's binary source code limited lots possibility of overclocking .

But X370 Taichi is good for cpu clocking and 24/7 for sure .

X299 Oc formula will be next target .

So this platform is not an overclocker. I wouldn't expect much unless something gets seriously overhauled.

.

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3 minutes ago, dexT said:

Nick Shih said on overclock.net

 

So this platform is not an overclocker. I wouldn't expect much unless something gets seriously overhauled.

I think everyone agrees at the moment that Ryzen does not overclock well. However, it is a general observation. This topic is about a specific scenario, so your post doesn't really contribute anything. And I'm genuinely interested: how well can some cores overclock and does it impact gaming?

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1 minute ago, Starry_air said:

I think everyone agrees at the moment that Ryzen does not overclock well. However, it is a general observation. This topic is about a specific scenario, so your post doesn't really contribute anything. 

And?

.

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On 3/3/2017 at 7:11 AM, PrancingCheddar said:

Quite simply, could disabling cores and providing adequate cooling allow for a ryzen CPU to be overclocked to such a degree it's capabilities become more competitive with intel's on single threaded experiences?

It's easy to find out, but reviewers are too lazy or too worried to post "first!" :P

 

To be honest, it doesn't make sense to buy an 8-core to disable cores and OC - just wait for R5s etc, given the price differences. But it could be interesting for the purpose of getting a sense of what 6-core and 4-core may look like in this architecture (it's important to remember that cache and other details will differ as well).

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31 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

It's easy to find out, but reviewers are too lazy or too worried to post "first!" :P

 

To be honest, it doesn't make sense to buy an 8-core to disable cores and OC - just wait for R5s etc, given the price differences. But it could be interesting for the purpose of getting a sense of what 6-core and 4-core may look like in this architecture (it's important to remember that cache and other details will differ as well).

To me it actually does make some sense... you could set a profile and use it for gaming if the 60 fps that Ryzen definitely can provide is not enough for you. Rebooting the system twice, to enable and disable the "gaming" OC/core profile, isn't really that much fuss given how quickly modern systems restart (not like five years ago when you could make a cup of tee in the meantime more often than not). If this works, one could have the best of both worlds, so to speak. 

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1 minute ago, Starry_air said:

To me it actually does make some sense... you could set a profile and use it for gaming if the 60 fps that Ryzen definitely can provide is not enough for you. Rebooting the system twice, to enable and disable the "gaming" OC/core profile, isn't really that much fuss given how quickly modern systems restart (not like five years ago when you could make a cup of tee in the meantime more often than not). 

That's true. I was thinking of buying it with the sole purpose of using it as an OCed quad-core, but if you are getting it mainly for any multithreaded workload that justifies the price, it would make sense to have a BIOS profile optimized for gaming when you need it.

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I had a similar request that I posted like this topic, went around and asked some youtubers that have the chip to do the test for me. One youtuber led me to his livestream on it, but as far as I saw, he only did the 4 core/8 thread variant on his 1800x. He never did any gaming test I think, was just a quick reboot to see what score he'd get in CPU-Z. He was able to overclock to 4.2GHz on the 4 cores and get like 2400s in single core and 10400s in multicore with SMT.

 

The stream is like 6 hours long, idk if he did anymore testing like that (he left me in the dark) but here's the link for anyone interested:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/125865812?t=2h18m59s

around the 45 min mark he started to get into disabling the cores

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Thanks, this is at least something concrete. The OC is higher than average, though we don't know of course what he can get on all 8 cores (the ratio would be really interesting) and if the 4/8 OC'd configuration helps at all in actual games. Maybe we'll hear more in the next couple of days. Those tech youtubers and sites are often starved for ideas, so who knows, maybe someone will do a proper investigation ;) 

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I found this (props to the reviewer spending the time to rewrite everything in his limited English):

http://www.zolkorn.com/en/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-vs-intel-core-i7-7700k-mhz-by-mhz-core-by-core-en/view-all/

 

They did a pretty extensive test run running an 1800x at 4 cores and 8 threads, they wanted to know how Ryzen itself stacked to the i7 7700k with everything equal (same no. cores/threads, same overclock, same memory speed & timings, same GPU). The Ryzen was for the most part 6 - 15% behind in synthetics and negligible to 12% behind in gaming performance.

 

So it follows the theme of Ryzen processors, pretty much the near/same performance for considerably less money than Intel (1 tier down decrease in price). So I'm expecting:

 

R3s = Locked i5s for i3 prices (much better minimums and frametimes for gaming versus i3, same fps otherwise vs locked i5)

R5s = Locked i7/Limited OC i7 for i5 prices (maybe same, more likely less performance in gaming vs Intel 4 core / 6 core CPUs)

 

All things granted, these were best case scenarios for Ryzen due to the cache differences, but unless the other CPUs are proven in time to be starving of cache, the 4c/8t Ryzen chips should be within these ballpark figures.

 

I would expect the R5s and R3s to have the same issues of overclock, i.e. not getting past 4GHz easy as core disabling didn't seem to help anything, it's just a limit of the chip (we see that with 7700k vs 7350k for example, pretty much 5GHz mark for both). That could change as they have the time to improve it maybe but yeah, hope this gives everyone a lil insight, would be nice to find more tests like these but between the livestream post I made earlier and this, I kinda have my assured verdict.

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2 minutes ago, GangstaRas said:

I found this (props to the reviewer spending the time to rewrite everything in his limited English):

http://www.zolkorn.com/en/amd-ryzen-7-1800x-vs-intel-core-i7-7700k-mhz-by-mhz-core-by-core-en/view-all/

 

They did a pretty extensive test run running an 1800x at 4 cores and 8 threads, they wanted to know how Ryzen itself stacked to the i7 7700k with everything equal (same no. cores/threads, same overclock, same memory speed & timings, same GPU). The Ryzen was for the most part 6 - 15% behind in synthetics and negligible to 12% behind in gaming performance.

Thanks for sharing the results. However, running the i7 and R7 at same clocks gives us information on IPC, which we already had. What would be interesting to know is if the maximum OC, or the OC for a given voltage, increases when cores are disabled, and by how much, as a way to understand what to expect from single core performance (IPC*clock) in future releases.

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On 04/03/2017 at 8:18 PM, dexT said:

Nick Shih said on overclock.net

 

So this platform is not an overclocker. I wouldn't expect much unless something gets seriously overhauled.

My sig would disagree :P

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3 minutes ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Thanks for sharing the results. However, running the i7 and R7 at same clocks gives us information on IPC, which we already had. What would be interesting to know is if the maximum OC, or the OC for a given voltage, increases when cores are disabled, and by how much, as a way to understand what to expect from single core performance (IPC*clock) in future releases.

I have a hunch that he was probably limited. The other guy I posted with the livestream, his stability didn't improve disabling his cores, he still had a 4.1 GHz limit whether its 8 cores or 4 cores (He did do 4.2 GHz in the video but I don't count it because he said he can do 4.2 GHz all 8 cores in benches, but always crash in game, he didn't game the 4 cores @ 4.2 GHz so it's an unsure position but I'm working with worse case scenario that it would probably crash too)

 

So for me to see this article now, I don't think we're going to see any Ryzen chip across the board getting past 4 GHz easily, unless they take the time now to optimize the CPUs in some way if it's possible.

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8 minutes ago, Jumper118 said:

My sig would disagree :P

You know you can just do this test for us right? lol

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11 minutes ago, Jumper118 said:

My sig would disagree :P

Can I ask what voltage and what is your stability criteria?

 

Elsewhere, I've been keeping an eye on Ryzen OC reports and the general consensus is there is a process related limitation at work here. Without sub ambient cooling, most are finding themselves hitting a voltage wall around 4 GHz ball park, some better, some worse. If the limitation is the process, reducing the number of cores will not significantly help. That could help only if it was power limited. Basically it is tuned to offer great power efficiency at (relatively) lower clocks, but it struggles to scale higher.

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1 hour ago, Jumper118 said:

My sig would disagree :P

 

I thought you got 4.0 to 4.1 out of it with 8 cores before your board died?

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I think you guys missed the joke :(

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AMD Threadripper 5990WX@4.8Ghz

Asus Zenith III Extreme

Asrock OC Formula 7970XTX Quadfire

G.Skill Ripheartout X OC 7000Mhz C28 DDR5 4X16GB  

Super Flower Power Leadex 2000W Psu's X2

Harrynowl's 775/771 OC and mod guide: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/232325-lga775-core2duo-core2quad-overclocking-guide/ http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/365998-mod-lga771-to-lga775-cpu-modification-tutorial/

ProKoN haswell/DC OC guide: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/41234-intel-haswell-4670k-4770k-overclocking-guide/

 

"desperate for just a bit more money to watercool, the titan x would be thankful" Carter -2016

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Just now, Jumper118 said:

I think you guys missed the joke :(

 

I did.  ;)

 

I was going to ask you yesterday about the 4.5 GHz in your sig, but I forgot.  Can you break the joke down for me?

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15 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

I did.  ;)

 

I was going to ask you yesterday about the 4.5 GHz in your sig, but I forgot.  Can you break the joke down for me?

4.5ghz not on a dead board

Ocf isn't coming

RX Vega water cooled.... 

5000mhz mems is 2x as fast as actual ryzen 7 mem

I only have 3*1300w psu not 4*2000 because poor people. 

 

 

Its just my crystal balls of what makes the get come. 

Rig Specs:

AMD Threadripper 5990WX@4.8Ghz

Asus Zenith III Extreme

Asrock OC Formula 7970XTX Quadfire

G.Skill Ripheartout X OC 7000Mhz C28 DDR5 4X16GB  

Super Flower Power Leadex 2000W Psu's X2

Harrynowl's 775/771 OC and mod guide: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/232325-lga775-core2duo-core2quad-overclocking-guide/ http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/365998-mod-lga771-to-lga775-cpu-modification-tutorial/

ProKoN haswell/DC OC guide: http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/41234-intel-haswell-4670k-4770k-overclocking-guide/

 

"desperate for just a bit more money to watercool, the titan x would be thankful" Carter -2016

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