Legal Binding Contracts?

MrTralala · February 20, 2017

Probably not the most appropriate place to ask about this topic, but I thought I might as well since the LTT's community consist of mostly adults as I would assume.

So my PayPal account has been limited for the longest of time now because I am under 18 which according to their user agreement, I have to be above that said age. Anyways, you must be curious how they found out. Well, I made a very stupid mistake a long time ago when I opened my PayPal account and I had entered my surname twice for some odd reason so I thought I might have to fix it in order to transfer money from my bank account to my PayPal account (PayPal said that my name on my PayPal account must tally with my bank account name). They needed a form of identity as proof to which I sent my identification card which shows my name and includes my actual age. At first, they didn't notice my date of birth but a few days later, they sent me an email telling me my funds are frozen for 6 months and that my account will remain limited even after those months pass for an undetermined time (probably until I send them a support email when I am 18). They gave me a chance to resolve this limitation saying that they sent me an email telling me how I can resolve it but the only email I received from them just tells me that my account is limited because I am under 18 so I would assume that it was in order to comply with the state and federal law. But to be honest, I don't know much about the law or why there is a need for this requirement (I wish the school taught a bit of this at least :/).

And I notice a lot of companies have this required age to use their services as well. They are always talking about being able to enter a legal binding contract or something but I never really understood why. Which is why I have a question: Why do most companies require the individual to be 18 and above and that they are able to form a legal binding contract? I mean when I look at PayPal, I don't see any legal binding contract unless buying or selling of goods is considered a contract? I don't know.

Hope anyone can share in detail what this law is about and the reason for it. Also, if you are under 18 and still went ahead to violate the company's age requirement, could you get into any legal problems with them?

HelplmChoking · February 20, 2017

Their Terms and Conditions are a legally binding contract, and (at least in the US) a minor can't enter one. It's a good restriction, it stops kids getting credit cards, taking out loans, getting into debt, or otherwise signing something when they don't fully understand the consequences.

"In all states, the age requirement to sign a contract is 18 years of age. A child under the age of 18 is considered a minor and is unable to sign a contract unless it is for essential items. Essential items include medicines, food, and medical services. Otherwise, the minor child must have a parent or guardian consent to the contract in order for it to be legally binding."

-http://law.freeadvice.com/general_practice/contract_law/contract_valid.htm

Judging by the above advice, you should be able to get PayPal to close the account and return any money associated with it back to you.

Donut417 · February 20, 2017

15 minutes ago, trevor_leong said:

Probably not the most appropriate place to ask about this topic, but I thought I might as well since the LTT's community consist of mostly adults as I would assume.

So my PayPal account has been limited for the longest of time now because I am under 18 which according to their user agreement, I have to be above that said age. Anyways, you must be curious how they found out. Well, I made a very stupid mistake a long time ago when I opened my PayPal account and I had entered my surname twice for some odd reason so I thought I might have to fix it in order to transfer money from my bank account to my PayPal account (PayPal said that my name on my PayPal account must tally with my bank account name). They needed a form of identity as proof to which I sent my identification card which shows my name and includes my actual age. At first, they didn't notice my date of birth but a few days later, they sent me an email telling me my funds are frozen for 6 months and that my account will remain limited even after those months pass for an undetermined time (probably until I send them a support email when I am 18). They gave me a chance to resolve this limitation saying that they sent me an email telling me how I can resolve it but the only email I received from them just tells me that my account is limited because I am under 18 so I would assume that it was in order to comply with the state and federal law. But to be honest, I don't know much about the law or why there is a need for this requirement (I wish the school taught a bit of this at least :/).

And I notice a lot of companies have this required age to use their services as well. They are always talking about being able to enter a legal binding contract or something but I never really understood why. Which is why I have a question: Why do most companies require the individual to be 18 and above and that they are able to form a legal binding contract? I mean when I look at PayPal, I don't see any legal binding contract unless buying or selling of goods is considered a contract? I don't know.

Hope anyone can share in detail what this law is about and the reason for it. Also, if you are under 18 and still went ahead to violate the company's age requirement, could you get into any legal problems with them?

Well at least in the US. At 18 years of age you can be drafted and sent to war. So by that time they figure your an adult. Thats why people who commit certain crimes under the age of 18 get off or have reduced sentences. The law says at 18 or allowed to enter binding contracts. That could be how the legal system works in your country.

Blade of Grass · February 20, 2017

When you sign up to use a service like PayPal you have to agree to their site's Terms of Service (and probably some other buyer-seller terms, haven't looked into their stuff specifically), but if you're a minor you cannot legally enter into a binding agreement, so PayPal would have no way to legally hold you to those terms (and in some countries like Canada, minors actually have quite a bit of power when it comes to contracts which they've entered into, like the ability to leave at anytime regardless of the terms). There also might be some banking specific regulations that require them to make sure you're the age of majority.

Buying and selling goods does actually constitute a contract. There's 4 elements to a binding contract (you can read about it here if you're interested), and the buying and/or selling of goods meets all 4 elements.

I wouldn't suggest breaking a website's Terms and Conditions (for various reasons), but you wouldn't be doing something illegal (criminal law) if you did. It would just constitute a violation of the contract (civil law), and they can pursue whatever remedies that the contract says they can pursue (and potentially others). It would be interesting though to see how a court case would work if you were sued for entering into a contract when you were not able to enter into the contract... There might be interesting case law on that

Note: I am not a lawyer, this does not constitute legal advice, seek a real lawyer if you want real advice, yada yada yada

MrTralala · February 20, 2017

34 minutes ago, Rangaman42 said:

Their Terms and Conditions are a legally binding contract, and (at least in the US) a minor can't enter one. It's a good restriction, it stops kids getting credit cards, taking out loans, getting into debt, or otherwise signing something when they don't fully understand the consequences.

"In all states, the age requirement to sign a contract is 18 years of age. A child under the age of 18 is considered a minor and is unable to sign a contract unless it is for essential items. Essential items include medicines, food, and medical services. Otherwise, the minor child must have a parent or guardian consent to the contract in order for it to be legally binding."

-http://law.freeadvice.com/general_practice/contract_law/contract_valid.htm

Judging by the above advice, you should be able to get PayPal to close the account and return any money associated with it back to you.

Hm...I see. It's kinda sad though because I have my own debit card that has my name but belongs to both my mother and I but there are so many websites that I can't use despite that just because I am under 18. I don't plan to get into any debts or those sorts, but I guess from a business perspective it is better to restrict all individuals below 18 than to receive more business but risk lawsuits.

Nah I don't think I wanna close my account because I plan to use it in the future once I am 18. Until then, I'll just leave it alone :(.

33 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

Well at least in the US. At 18 years of age you can be drafted and sent to war. So by that time they figure your an adult. Thats why people who commit certain crimes under the age of 18 get off or have reduced sentences. The law says at 18 or allowed to enter binding contracts. That could be how the legal system works in your country.

I just wished my school taught me all this instead of having experienced it for myself. But thanks for the info. I am not particularly sure how to find out Singapore's law (I don't trust google on this), but hopefully any Singaporeans can shed some light on this.

31 minutes ago, Blade of Grass said:

When you sign up to use a service like PayPal you have to agree to their site's Terms of Service (and probably some other buyer-seller terms, haven't looked into their stuff specifically), but if you're a minor you cannot legally enter into a binding agreement, so PayPal would have no way to legally hold you to those terms (and in some countries like Canada, minors actually have quite a bit of power when it comes to contracts which they've entered into, like the ability to leave at anytime regardless of the terms). There also might be some banking specific regulations that require them to make sure you're the age of majority.

Buying and selling goods does actually constitute a contract. There's 4 elements to a binding contract (you can read about it here if you're interested), and the buying and/or selling of goods meets all 4 elements.

I wouldn't suggest breaking a website's Terms and Conditions (for various reasons), but you wouldn't be doing something illegal (criminal law) if you did. It would just constitute a violation of the contract (civil law), and they can pursue whatever remedies that the contract says they can pursue (and potentially others). It would be interesting though to see how a court case would work if you were sued for entering into a contract when you were not able to enter into the contract... There might be interesting case law on that

Note: I am not a lawyer, this does not constitute legal advice, seek a real lawyer if you want real advice, yada yada yada

Oh interesting read. Thanks for the share.

Hmmm...but I thought generally for most countries, it is a criminal law that you have to be 18 and above to enter a legal contract? I googled the definition of civil law and correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it a law that is created by the company themselves? "the system of law concerned with private relations between members of a community rather than criminal, military, or religious affairs." I don't even know anymore .

Yeah, I have always wondered if any company bothered suing an individual because he/she was under 18. They always make it sound like that they would in their ToS.

Blade of Grass · February 20, 2017

1 hour ago, trevor_leong said:

Hmmm...but I thought generally for most countries, it is a criminal law that you have to be 18 and above to enter a legal contract? I googled the definition of civil law and correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it a law that is created by the company themselves? "the system of law concerned with private relations between members of a community rather than criminal, military, or religious affairs." I don't even know anymore .

Yeah, I have always wondered if any company bothered suing an individual because he/she was under 18. They always make it sound like that they would in their ToS.

It is civil law that requires you to be 18 and above to enter a contract (in most countries). Here's a good explanation for criminal vs. civil law: http://www.cscja-acjcs.ca/criminal_civil_law-en.asp?l=4

Essentially, criminal law relates to committing a crime. Normally in criminal law police are involved, the government is charging you with a crime, etc.

Civil law covers basically everything else. Normally one person has wronged another in some way, so they go to court to settle the dispute. Lets say you pay someone $500 to paint your fence and they only do half of it the job, you would take them to civil court to force them to either pay you back or finish the job.

Most ToS are written so that they can sue you if they want to, but I doubt many companies would actively pursue a minor (unless they did something really bad).