Intel Responses to Ryzen

[Brooksie359]

2 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

There is IBM and Qualcomm on the server processors side too... I would love to see nVidia doing CPUs but I don't think they ever will.

idk. if they had the opportunity to buy up amd assets including the license to amd64. if they did that then they could get into the marketplace. currently the reason why we dont see anyone but amd and intel in the desktop cpu marketplace is because intel has the license for X86 and amd has the license for amd64. they both license them to each other but wont license them to anyone else. 

[JoseGuya]

I hope someone could pressure Intel to give up the x86 license, maybe Apple could, threatening to switch ISA again, to ARM probably.

 

 

[PCMasterDebater]

12 hours ago, CatXice said:

intel anit stupid they know what amd have in ryzen u dont think they wont have some one on the inside (and dont be like o this anit the FBI bullshit u know what i mean slide someone a grand and its amazing what they tell you all am saying) so the fact kaby lake is the normal 5-10% boost on sky lake makes my question ryzen  

 

12 hours ago, CatXice said:

*facepalm* ok i make it simple to for ya intel know what ryzen performance is they just will so dont u think kaby lake is going to match it on performance if not be better....

also kaby is 5-10% faster then sky which is standard for a new intel cpu so ryzen is conveniently 5-10% better then sky or its = or worse then sky? intel have way more info on making a good cpu then amd therefore can make a better one easier then amd and also faster 

 

side note:

in the uk a 7600k is cheaper then a 6600k so that positive for ryzen surly

 

12 hours ago, CatXice said:

not my fault a full stop and a so on want help u understand how a company works as u clearly dont get it

 

This is Gold right here.

[RagnarokDel]

I have a really hard time believing that Canonlake will have over 15% IPC improvement

[goodtofufriday]

15 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

I don't think they will actually do anything performance wise that is drastic, I also don't think they'll need to as I highly doubt Ryzen can compete performance wise thus it will only possibly affect prices if anything at all, amd may actually have something to brag about with Ryzen but I still doubt it and hence see no reason why intel would need a drastic response as they have the money and branding to win a price war amd does not.

As im sure you are aware, it doesnt need to At or Higher than intel perf, and not even terribly close. 

All it needs to be is the obvious choice for price/performance. Especially multi-core being a need more and more. Taking market share is the only real goal here. 

 

But with all the leaks out its fair to say it will at least be competitive. 

 

[AresKrieger]

6 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

As im sure you are aware, it doesnt need to At or Higher than intel perf, and not even terribly close. 

Intel has the money and branding to win a price war amd does not. So if intel want to bury amd they can given how their products net them sizable profit margins without even touching performance, but they don't want to as having a weak competitor is more optimal business wise than being a solo actor

[goodtofufriday]

13 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Intel has the money and branding to win a price war amd does not. So if intel want to bury amd they can given how their products net them sizable profit margins without even touching performance, but they don't want to as having a weak competitor is more optimal business wise than being a solo actor

They did that before in 2006, before they price gouged the cpu market. Don't expect that to happen again. Corporate doesnt forget. Dont think the likes of Dell and Lenovo won't be buying up AMD like they used. 

Enthusiast market wont even matter with pre-built companies involved. 

But in this case, enthusiast market, in part, will be suggesting against intel for some time. 

[revl8er]

I really hope the benchmarks were accurate.  This will make Intel get off their asses to make a better chip.  They haven't had to do so in the past several years due to AMD dropping the ball on their processors.  Frankly IMO the last great AMD processor was the Athlon II processors.  

[MageTank]

15 hours ago, Vode said:

The main gain from Haswell to Kaby Lake in gaming is the move to DDR4 (see Digital Foundry testing with a Titan X at 1080p).

 

Sysmark includes a lot of memory bound stuff I would imagine. 

 

Zen should do very well. If Zen memory controller is subpar though Kaby Lake will pull ahead noticably in CPU bound scenarios or game that are sensitive to memory latency. 

I know what the main gain from Haswell to Kaby is. The problem is, Haswell went to Skylake before Kaby, and Kaby offered nothing noteworthy over Skylake for desktop users. Sure, the 10% better overclocking is appreciated by enthusiasts, and the turbo boost efficiency is appreciated by mobile users, but that's it. Optane is a gimmick, and that 4k Netflix DRM should work for GPU's that meet the same standards too, not just for Kaby CPU's AND B/H/Z2xx platforms. 

 

I am confused as to why you quoted my post about Skylake, to reference Haswell vs Kaby, but I'll reiterate my point. Kaby Lake made the same 15% performance claim over Skylake, and it was only for very specific workloads on very specific mobile SKU's. For the desktop SKU's, we saw nowhere near that. With a 7% boost in clock speeds, we saw roughly a 7% boost in performance (stock vs stock). Expect the very same thing from Coffeelake. It's unlikely we will see any IPC gains with that too. 

[JamieOlive]

20 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

I don't think they will actually do anything performance wise that is drastic, I also don't think they'll need to as I highly doubt Ryzen can compete performance wise thus it will only possibly affect prices if anything at all, amd may actually have something to brag about with Ryzen but I still doubt it and hence see no reason why intel would need a drastic response as they have the money and branding to win a price war amd does not.

I doubt that it will, not. If Ryzen wasn't the real deal Intel wouldn't release anything, they wouldn't need to. It costs quite a lot of money to start sellinga new proccessor or anything even if the previous model has almost nothing changed to it.

 

Also I think that Ryzen won't be able to beat Intel in every aspect, but it will made them panick cause "you rememberr what happened to the rabbit ,right in the race???"

 

Anyway Ryzen is good, even if the prices are a little higher that what the leaks says, even if they are performing less than 90% of Intel comparisons, it is a very good thing to have competitions, it will make Intel believe it or not to lower prices, not just CPUs, we have

• Mobile Chips
• Exclusive deals on Lpatops and consoles
• MOBOS
• Even lower end GPUs and RAM / NvME

will be affecte dby Ryzen, because it has made Intel do stupid things that only someone who is in panick does and that is a FACTTTT!!!

[Citadelen]

This is inadequate at best and threatens to be irrelevant at worst.

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, JamieOlive said:

I doubt that it will, not. If Ryzen wasn't the real deal Intel wouldn't release anything, they wouldn't need to. It costs quite a lot of money to start sellinga new proccessor or anything even if the previous model has almost nothing changed to it.

 

Also I think that Ryzen won't be able to beat Intel in every aspect, but it will made them panick cause "you rememberr what happened to the rabbit ,right in the race???"

 

Anyway Ryzen is good, even if the prices are a little higher that what the leaks says, even if they are performing less than 90% of Intel comparisons, it is a very good thing to have competitions, it will make Intel believe it or not to lower prices, not just CPUs, we have

• Mobile Chips
• Exclusive deals on Lpatops and consoles
• MOBOS
• Even lower end GPUs and RAM / NvME

will be affecte dby Ryzen, because it has made Intel do stupid things that only someone who is in panick does and that is a FACTTTT!!!

What are you on about? First of all, Cannonlake isn't a response to Ryzen at all, it's only going to bring 15w mobile SKU's. Second of all, Cannonlake (and Coffelake for that matter) were on Intel's roadmap long before the Ryzen info we have, existed. Intel has followed the same annual pattern for a long time now, and AMD won't change that. Intel isn't scared that AMD will exceed their performance, and certainly doesn't need a new CPU to combat that threat. They can simply reduce their prices to be slightly competitive, with their superior performance. If you think AMD is going to jump from 28nm down to 14nm AND beat Intel, the more experienced 14nm manufacturer on their first try, you are asking for too much.

 

At best, AMD will release cheaper alternatives that offer comparable performance for a lower cost. The cheaper option if you will. The title AMD absolutely hates being referred to as, but as of now, is forced to embrace it. If you can name a single thing Ryzen has made Intel do "in a panic", i'd be more inclined to believe you. Otherwise, you are merely buying into the hype that every hardware review website is spreading to earn clicks. 

[Princess Luna]

13 minutes ago, MageTank said:

snip

I complete agree with everything you have addressed, however I believe that mentioning how the 7740k move certainly was "odd" is worth since it is pretty much no different than the 7700k aside the upcoming quad-channel memory support and again minimal core clock increases while it will feature an entirely exclusive 2066 socket which is likely to make its motherboards considerably more expansive at the same time these Kaby-Lake-E unlike Broadwell-E will still be limited to 4c/8t.

 

This move which all the "popular articles" describe as Intel's "response to Ryzen" was strange and not really well placed in my humble opinion.

[mockedarche]

im sorry but kabylake isn't 15% of an improvement over skylake in ipc thus meaning that cannon wont be a 15% improvement over kaby. Unless they say a ipc improvement or increased ghz standard ( just runs faster ) it wont be faster. Ryzen will be a (roughly) 40% ipc improvement over their old cpus which means its instructions per clock will be 40% more meaning that at the same ghz it will be 40% better.

[MageTank]

13 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

I complete agree with you with everything you have addressed, however I believe that mentioning how the 7740k move certainly was "odd" since it is pretty much no different than the 7700k aside the upcoming quad-channel memory support and again minimal core clock increases while it will feature an entirely exclusive 2066 socket which is likely to make its motherboards considerably more expansive at the same time these Kaby-Lake-E unlike Broadwell-E will still be limited to 4c/8t.

 

This move which all the "popular articles" describe as Intel's "response to Ryzen" was strange and not really well placed in my humble opinion.

The 7740k, as in, the 4c/8t i7 that we know absolutely nothing about? The rumors themselves are contradicting themselves. First it's a response to Ryzen, and going to be Z270, next it's actually the rumored quad-core X299 chip that was rumored before that. Nobody can make up their minds over what that chip is, and we certainly cannot attribute it as a response to Zen until we get more information as to where it's going to go. Also, we had this information long before Ryzen's recent benchmarks or price leaks:

 

http://wccftech.com/intel-x299-chipset-skylake-x-kaby-lake-x/ (November of 2016)

Quote

Intel would also be offering Kaby Lake-X processors on their HEDT platform. They would launch at the same time as Skylake-X but available in only Quad Core package. The surprising thing here is that the Kaby Lake-X SKUs will feature a 112W TDP on a 14nm node. This means that we might be looking at much higher clock speeds compared to current generation quad core models.

Take note of that rumored TDP. It may look familiar. 

http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-7740k-core-i5-7640k-amd-ryzen/ (February of 2017)

 

Why would Intel need X299 to "respond" to Ryzen? Do they need quad channel DDR4 to beat AMD's likely sub-par dual-channel (expandable to 8) IMC? They certainly have nothing to worry about in the raw IPC/clock speed department, as Kaby Lake put a nail in that coffin with it's easily overclockable 5ghz CPU's. If Intel wanted to compete, wouldn't it make more sense to just drop the prices of the current CPU's that are already competitive with AMD's rumored CPU's? 

 

The only possible argument one could make, is that by adding quad cores to their HEDT platform, they are trying to go with a unified platform like AMD. A single platform that can span from quad cores, to 10+ cores. Even then, It's not something Intel would have to do to compete with AMD. They have the stronger brand recognition among enthusiasts, and they still have the performance advantage no matter how you slice it. People will almost certainly pay a price premium for more performance, just not what Intel is currently asking. Lower the costs, remain profitable with less margin, and attempt to hold as much of the market share as possible. That's all they need to do. Certainly don't need a new CPU to do that.

[MoonSpot]

41 minutes ago, MageTank said:

... If you can name a single thing Ryzen has made Intel do "in a panic", i'd be more inclined to believe you. Otherwise, you are merely buying into the hype that every hardware review website is spreading to earn clicks. 

If that rumour of intel releasing a i5 with HT is true, then I'd say AMD lit one hell of a fire under intels ass.  I'd even call it a panic.  But rumours are one thing, and product on the shelf is another.

[W-L]

Let's not get too far off on a tangent now, and stick to the topic at hand. 

 

Thread cleaned up.

[MakeAMDGreatAgain]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

 

Also, the thread title makes perfect sense, so long as one has a decent handle of English grammar. It depicts the thread as being a discussion on Intel's rumored, probable, possible, and improbable responses to AMD's upcoming Ryzen release.

Wrong. It would be: "Intel's responses to RyZen" if you want to use the word "responses".

 

 

Don't start putting other people down when you don't even know the correct way yourself. 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, MakeAMDGreatAgain said:

Wrong. It would be: "Intel's responses to RyZen" if you want to use the word "responses".

 

 

Don't start putting other people down when you don't even know the correct way yourself. 

That is what is CONVENTIONAL, but it's not the only correct way of assembling the statement.

 

"Intel responses" is 100% grammar, as the noun is "Intel responses," as in the rumored 7740K and 7640K, potential price cuts, releasing 8th generation CPUs early ( @MageTank what's the codename for that?), or them just doing nothing.

[MakeAMDGreatAgain]

3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That is what is CONVENTIONAL, but it's not the only correct way of assembling the statement.

 

"Intel responses" is 100% grammar, as the noun is "Intel responses," as in the rumored 7740K and 7640K, potential price cuts, releasing 8th generation CPUs early ( @MageTank what's the codename for that?), or them just doing nothing.

Bro. Please bear with me.

 

I could say anything and it could be grammatically correct.

 

"Intel responds to tree"

 

Yeah sure, "it's grammatically correct". However it DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. If it doesn't make sense, it's not grammatically correct.

[MageTank]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That is what is CONVENTIONAL, but it's not the only correct way of assembling the statement.

 

"Intel responses" is 100% grammar, as the noun is "Intel responses," as in the rumored 7740K and 7640K, potential price cuts, releasing 8th generation CPUs early ( @MageTank what's the codename for that?), or them just doing nothing.

For the 8th gen? That'd be Cannonlake for mobile, Coffeelake for desktop. 

 

As for the grammar argument, "intel responses" in your context wouldn't make much sense. It would be "Intel's response". 

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, MageTank said:

For the 8th gen? That'd be Cannonlake for mobile, Coffeelake for desktop. 

 

As for the grammar argument, "intel responses" in your context wouldn't make much sense. It would be "Intel's response". 

At this point, don't feed the grammar argument.

From a purely grammatical standpoint, "Intel responses to Ryzen" is 100% correct, and in the context of the discussion (the rumored responses themselves, not Intel's responding to Ryzen), it makes sense.

 

And that's the last thing I'm saying about it.

 

The fact that there are specific codenames for desktop and mobile is fucking stupid. Suppose they'll just be Haswell Mini 2.2 as far as I'm concerned.

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

At this point, don't feed the grammar argument.

From a purely grammatical standpoint, "Intel responses to Ryzen" is 100% correct, and in the context of the discussion (the rumored responses themselves, not Intel's responding to Ryzen), it makes sense.

 

And that's the last thing I'm saying about it.

 

The fact that there are specific codenames for desktop and mobile is fucking stupid. Suppose they'll just be Haswell Mini 2.2 as far as I'm concerned.

I am not "feeding an argument". I am simply stating what I've observed. "Responses" as a plural, only makes contextual sense if multiple "responses" are posted. The thread only mentions Cannonlake, which is an issue in and of itself because Cannonlake isn't a response to Ryzen at all. That source is simply baiting for clicks without even studying what Cannonlake is. If anything, it only serves to confuse it's readers, as it fails to mention Coffeelake at all, and the article repeatedly changes the context to high end gaming, VR, and even competition against Ryzen. Cannonlake will not be capable of any of that. 

 

Point is: Title and content are both wrong, and in this context, "responses" doesn't make sense. Whether or not it's grammatically correct is irrelevant, context means everything. I don't blame OP for either though, as the article itself is very misleading, and the "responses" part is probably just a simple oversight. 

[Questycasos]

5 hours ago, MoonSpot said:

If that rumour of intel releasing a i5 with HT is true, then I'd say AMD lit one hell of a fire under intels ass.  I'd even call it a panic.  But rumours are one thing, and product on the shelf is another.

Haven't there been rumors of Cannonlake raising the consumer i7 core count to 6? That would leave the 4/8 thread SKUs for i5s. Combine that with what MageTank already mentioned and I feel like that whole 7740k and 7640k thing was just some wires from earlier rumors getting crossed the wrong way. Because the "7640k" being a Cannonlake i5 and the "7740k" being that weird Kaby Lake HEDT quad-core makes a lot more sense than Intel releasing them under the same family, since the i5 would kill sales of the i7.

[LAwLz]

7 hours ago, MageTank said:

-snip-

But dude... Haven't you heard the leaks?

Ryzen will:
Match or only be ~5% behind Intel across the board.

Have 8 cores and 16 threads for the price of a quad core from Intel.

Overclock really well.

Have a lower TDP and therefore use less power and run cooler than Intel's CPUs.

 

And AMD will do this on their first attempt!

Clearly Intel will be ruined and everyone's expectations for Ryzen will be met!