Intel Responses to Ryzen

[Carclis]

Given that Cannonlake is based on their 10nm process I would be very disappointed if they achieved less than a 15% performance improvement over Kaby Lake, especially if it's supposed to bring IPC improvements.

[VanayadGaming]

They said the exact same thing about kaby lake.... I'll believe it when I see it. Same goes for Ryzen

[BaalRunz]

2 hours ago, CatXice said:

intel anit stupid they know what amd have in ryzen u dont think they wont have some one on the inside (and dont be like o this anit the FBI bullshit u know what i mean slide someone a grand and its amazing what they tell you all am saying) so the fact kaby lake is the normal 5-10% boost on sky lake makes my question ryzen  

 

 

[LegendKillerRG]

2 hours ago, JoostinOnline said:

I didn't even understand that.  Please read into this.

His first post was about Intel giving money to a AMD employee for information. Which then gives intel the upper hand to making a CPU that's far better than AMD ever will. 

His second post then talks about Intel having far superior knowledge about making CPU and even if Ryzen is released, Intel will still be able to bury them because Intel is "always"(Cough* fanboy Cough*) superior in terms of technology/CPU experience.

This is what I came up with or after reading his poor grammar. Correct me if I'm wrong lol.

[MoonSpot]

38 minutes ago, LegendKillerRG said:

His first post was about Intel giving money to a AMD employee for information. Which then gives intel the upper hand to making a CPU that's far better than AMD ever will. 

His second post then talks about Intel having far superior knowledge about making CPU and even if Ryzen is released, Intel will still be able to bury them because Intel is "always"(Cough* fanboy Cough*) superior in terms of technology/CPU experience.

This is what I came up with or after reading his poor grammar. Correct me if I'm wrong lol.

I agree in that's what they were trying to say.  However if one can't even manage to say so themselves in an intelligible fashion it doesn't speak well to their ability to form a thought about the industry.  Add their cartoonish FBI reference, uniformed crystal balling, and I think we're all pretty safe in not putting stock in those posts.  Otherwise I guess intel has all those developer conferences, press junkets and road map discussions just to put on a good show for their spies at AMD to get a laugh.  :EyesRoll: :BrainDies:

[Vode]

4 hours ago, MageTank said:

Except this means absolutely nothing. Look at the fine print. "In Sysmark". They made the exact same claim when comparing Kaby to Skylake. Look at what Kaby brought us. Zero IPC gains, and moderate clock speed gains and efficiency.

The main gain from Haswell to Kaby Lake in gaming is the move to DDR4 (see Digital Foundry testing with a Titan X at 1080p).

 

Sysmark includes a lot of memory bound stuff I would imagine. 

 

Zen should do very well. If Zen memory controller is subpar though Kaby Lake will pull ahead noticably in CPU bound scenarios or game that are sensitive to memory latency. 

[Bananasplit_00]

3 hours ago, CatXice said:

intel anit stupid they know what amd have in ryzen u dont think they wont have some one on the inside (and dont be like o this anit the FBI bullshit u know what i mean slide someone a grand and its amazing what they tell you all am saying) so the fact kaby lake is the normal 5-10% boost on sky lake makes my question ryzen  

Intel are sure to have Ryzen silicon, just like AMD probably has some Volta silicon and NVIDIA Vega silicon. 

[Bananasplit_00]

3 hours ago, Carclis said:

Given that Cannonlake is based on their 10nm process I would be very disappointed if they achieved less than a 15% performance improvement over Kaby Lake, especially if it's supposed to bring IPC improvements.

its not tho, its 14nm

 

25 minutes ago, Vode said:

The main gain from Haswell to Kaby Lake in gaming is the move to DDR4 (see Digital Foundry testing with a Titan X at 1080p).

 

Sysmark includes a lot of memory bound stuff I would imagine. 

 

Zen should do very well. If Zen memory controller is subpar though Kaby Lake will pull ahead noticably in CPU bound scenarios or game that are sensitive to memory latency. 

from the listings iv seen(there was a Swedish store listing for Ryzen chips) they said a max supported speed of 2100MHz which is a bit low compared to the base frequency supported by Intel chips but that probably dosent mean much in the end

[Vode]

3 minutes ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

its not tho, its 14nm

 

from the listings iv seen(there was a Swedish store listing for Ryzen chips) they said a max supported speed of 2100MHz which is a bit low compared to the base frequency supported by Intel chips but that probably dosent mean much in the end

You can always get OC Ram sticks. The crucial part is how much latency the memory controller on the CPU has. DDR4 itself has much tighter timings than equal Mhz DDR3 naturally but the memory controller again is also a huge factor.

 

Let's hope for the best I guess although I feel this will be a weakness for Zen, everything else looks really strong.

[Carclis]

1 hour ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

its not tho, its 14nm

That's a little concerning seeing as Intel seems to be relying on process node advancements for all of their performance increases as of late. I don't really hold too much faith in that >15% performance increase claim being met especially when you consider that Skylake to Kaby Lake made the same claim.

[Bananasplit_00]

1 minute ago, Carclis said:

That's a little concerning seeing as Intel seems to be relying on process node advancements for all of their performance increases as of late. I don't really hold too much faith in that >15% performance increase claim being met especially when you consider that Skylake to Kaby Lake made the same claim.

yah i doubt there will be much of a jump in preformance but thats becoming a problem seeing as going to a smaller node is becomeing hard. under 7nm is basically impossible with current tech. my guess is that we are either going to swap over to graphene instead of silicon or that we are going to dumo x86 and use some other instruction set or way of computeing that can benefit more from multiple cores

[dexT]

1 hour ago, Bananasplit_00 said:

its not tho, its 14nm

 

from the listings iv seen(there was a Swedish store listing for Ryzen chips) they said a max supported speed of 2100MHz which is a bit low compared to the base frequency supported by Intel chips but that probably dosent mean much in the end

All the Crosshair VI Hero articles say 3200+ so yeah this Swedish store is garbo.

[Brooksie359]

6 hours ago, AresKrieger said:

Pretty sure we can say that with certainty, otherwise amd would go down in flames.

 

 In all seriousness I suspect it to be better than haswell and worse than skylake, which for most people isn't good enough but they may sell ~i7  for ~i5 prices or something like that to compensate however they said they don't want to be the bargin bin brand so this strategy is contrary to their statement.

if they have a product that is within 10% of skylake and is more than 10% cheaper then i could see many people who would consider buying zen. if they sold 4c/8t cpu for the price of an i5 i could see a ton of people who would be interested in going that route even if it had haswell like performance. 

[Bananasplit_00]

24 minutes ago, dexT said:

All the Crosshair VI Hero articles say 3200+ so yeah this Swedish store is garbo.

its CPU max, supported, for example a I7 7700K has a max supported of 2400MHz, its the chipsets and motherboards that allow for higher speeds to be used.

[dexT]

Just now, Bananasplit_00 said:

its CPU max, supported, for example a I7 7700K has a max supported of 2400MHz, its the chipsets and motherboards that allow for higher speeds to be used.

Gotcha. Haswell-E was 2133 as well.

[N3v3r3nding_N3wb]

9 hours ago, CatXice said:

intel anit stupid they know what amd have in ryzen u dont think they wont have some one on the inside (and dont be like o this anit the FBI bullshit u know what i mean slide someone a grand and its amazing what they tell you all am saying) so the fact kaby lake is the normal 5-10% boost on sky lake makes my question ryzen  

Not sure whether you're a native speaker or not, but could you please make some sense next time?

[Trik'Stari]

Considering how long Intel has been "not trying", one has to assume they have a lot of things lined up and ready to go, and this competitive market will only last briefly.

 

AMD releases Ryzen, sees a bump in sales, Intel releases something amazing that they've been sitting on for who knows how long, and their back on top as AMD just starts yelling MOAR CORES, or HSA again. And then we're back to where we've been for a while.

 

I hope I'm wrong though

[Princess Luna]

2 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Considering how long Intel has been "not trying", one has to assume they have a lot of things lined up and ready to go, and this competitive market will only last briefly.

 

AMD releases Ryzen, sees a bump in sales, Intel releases something amazing that they've been sitting on for who knows how long, and their back on top as AMD just starts yelling MOAR CORES, or HSA again. And then we're back to where we've been for a while.

 

I hope I'm wrong though

Kaby Lake shouldn't have even existed, Intel released the same product that Skylake was with just enough improvements so people can't call it a scam, and now they are already forced to go 8th gen and Kaby Lake-E with the 7740k all in a rush because AMD did the "impossible" become competitive.

[Trik'Stari]

3 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Kaby Lake shouldn't have even existed, Intel released the same product that Skylake was with just enough improvements so people can't call it a scam, and now they are already forced to go 8th gen and Kaby Lake-E with the 7740k all in a rush because AMD did the "impossible" become competitive.

True.

 

But remember, Intel can't really do much else, if they kill AMD, they kill themselves because they become a monopoly, which theoretically is illegal (at least in the US, it's theoretically illegal).

 

My guess is that they're just sitting on big stuff (what, I don't know, this is all hypothetical), waiting for someone to give them both an opportunity and a reason to release it.

[Brooksie359]

2 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Considering how long Intel has been "not trying", one has to assume they have a lot of things lined up and ready to go, and this competitive market will only last briefly.

 

AMD releases Ryzen, sees a bump in sales, Intel releases something amazing that they've been sitting on for who knows how long, and their back on top as AMD just starts yelling MOAR CORES, or HSA again. And then we're back to where we've been for a while.

 

I hope I'm wrong though

idk. i don't think there is really alot of room to improve ipc and frequency anymore. they will probably be limited to the same gains they have been getting every generation for the past couple of years. the only reason why amd was able make such a big increase in ipc is because they have been so far behind in ipc prior that alot of the ways to increase ipc were already known about. the only way i think intel will be able to stop ryzen from gaining ground is through pricing. if intel comes out with there next lineup with similar intel chips as ryzen chips at similar prices then its over. i dont think intel has been sitting on a huge ipc performance increase. 

[Trik'Stari]

2 minutes ago, Brooksie359 said:

idk. i don't think there is really alot of room to improve ipc and frequency anymore. they will probably be limited to the same gains they have been getting every generation for the past couple of years. the only reason why amd was able make such a big increase in ipc is because they have been so far behind in ipc prior that alot of the ways to increase ipc were already known about. the only way i think intel will be able to stop ryzen from gaining ground is through pricing. if intel comes out with there next lineup with similar intel chips as ryzen chips at similar prices then its over. i dont think intel has been sitting on a huge ipc performance increase. 

Maybe.

 

One has to wonder though, what has their R&D division been doing all this time?

[Brooksie359]

3 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

True.

 

But remember, Intel can't really do much else, if they kill AMD, they kill themselves because they become a monopoly, which theoretically is illegal (at least in the US, it's theoretically illegal).

 

My guess is that they're just sitting on big stuff (what, I don't know, this is all hypothetical), waiting for someone to give them both an opportunity and a reason to release it.

the legality of a monopoly isnt as strait forward as you would think. its illegal to have a monopoly through buying other companies but if it happens by competition naturally then its a different story. now if they didn't allow for someone else to get into the marketplace after amd went bankrupt i do believe that would have some legality issues. most likely if amd went out of business someone would buy their assests and take their place. 

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

the legality of a monopoly isnt as strait forward as you would think. its illegal to have a monopoly through buying other companies but if it happens by competition naturally then its a different story. now if they didn't allow for someone else to get into the marketplace after amd went bankrupt i do believe that would have some legality issues. most likely if amd went out of business someone would buy their assests and take their place. 

I would hope that is the case.

[Princess Luna]

1 minute ago, Brooksie359 said:

the legality of a monopoly isnt as strait forward as you would think. its illegal to have a monopoly through buying other companies but if it happens by competition naturally then its a different story. now if they didn't allow for someone else to get into the marketplace after amd went bankrupt i do believe that would have some legality issues. most likely if amd went out of business someone would buy their assests and take their place. 

There is IBM and Qualcomm on the server processors side too... I would love to see nVidia doing CPUs but I don't think they ever will.

[Brooksie359]

2 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Maybe.

 

One has to wonder though, what has their R&D division been doing all this time?

they have been coming to terms with the fact that the are a 1000 bottlenecks in a 1000 different places that all need to be increased inorder to get higher ipc, power efficiency and frequency.