How relevant AIO/custom water cooling is if your ambient temps are around 40 degrees

[Zev-Ron]

Hello,

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Zev-Ron said:

Hello,

Hi, please tell us more details on your components

[Zev-Ron]

Sorry about that... I want to ask something I live in India where our ambient temps goes to around 40 degrees in summer, I asked around my friends about AIO and custom water cooling and learned it depends upon ambient temps. So I wanted to ask if AIO and custom water cooling is relevant (considering its prices) and I am telling before hand using air condition is not possible

 

[W-L]

16 minutes ago, Zev-Ron said:

Sorry about that... I want to ask something I live in India where our ambient temps goes to around 40 degrees in summer, I asked around my friends about AIO and custom water cooling and learned it depends upon ambient temps. So I wanted to ask if AIO and custom water cooling is relevant (considering its prices) and I am telling before hand using air condition is not possible

Welcome to the Forums!

 

The ambient temps will affect the cooling potential as the lowest the system can be at is 40C, however note that using watercooling will affect the room or ambient temp more as it's more efficiently moving that heat into the surrounding air. 

[LinusTech]

7 minutes ago, W-L said:

Welcome to the Forums!

 

The ambient temps will affect the cooling potential as the lowest the system can be at is 40C, however note that using watercooling will affect the room or ambient temp more as it's more efficiently moving that heat into the surrounding air. 

Careful with that advice, there.

 

The best way to measure the performance of a CPU heatsink or water block is with a temperature DELTA. So if someone at 20C can achieve 50C on his or her CPU at a given fan speed. That's a delta of 30C.

 

So at 40C ambient, that same cooler (give or take) would sit around 70C - assuming the same fan speed.

 

Better cooling is still better.

 

As for water cooling vs air cooling affecting your room temperature, that is absolutely, irrefutably, 100% a myth. Don't mess with the laws of thermodynamics. You will not win.

 

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

Rare sight: Mr. Tech Tips and a Moderator duking it out.

[W-L]

Well I've learned something new  

[phongle123]

Haven't seen this video yet either. The quotes at the beginning are something of the Simpsons and they are amusing. "If it ain't broke. We'll break it." I cracked up!

13 minutes ago, W-L said:

Well I've learned something new  

 

[imreloadin]

20 minutes ago, LinusTech said:

Careful with that advice, there.

 

The best way to measure the performance of a CPU heatsink or water block is with a temperature DELTA. So if someone at 20C can achieve 50C on his or her CPU at a given fan speed. That's a delta of 30C.

 

So at 40C ambient, that same cooler (give or take) would sit around 70C - assuming the same fan speed.

 

Better cooling is still better.

 

As for water cooling vs air cooling affecting your room temperature, that is absolutely, irrefutably, 100% a myth. Don't mess with the laws of thermodynamics. You will not win.

 

 

I took his post as meaning if you use a better cooler it'll heat up the room you're in more since the cooler is able to expel the heat more quickly than a lower end cooler. Not that if you use a better cooler it would cool down the room.

 

Sorry I can't actually watch the video you posted but is that idea correct? Better cooler = hotter room as the heat is exchanged with a higher efficiency?

[LinusTech]

5 minutes ago, imreloadin said:

I took his post as meaning if you use a better cooler it'll heat up the room you're in more since the cooler is able to expel the heat more quickly than a lower end cooler. Not that if you use a better cooler it would cool down the room.

 

Sorry I can't actually watch the video you posted but is that idea correct? Better cooler = hotter room as the heat is exchanged with a higher efficiency?

No. If you use one cooler or another cooler the thermal energy released into the room will be identical either way.

[BoredErica]

2 hours ago, LinusTech said:

No. If you use one cooler or another cooler the thermal energy released into the room will be identical either way.

A chip that is cooler draws less power. So if keep a chip cooler with watercooling is it possible that the heat that there is to give off from the chip is lower because the chip is more efficient, and ever so slightly causing the room to be cooler when compared to air cooling?

On the other hand:

If I have a bowl of hot soup I could wait for it to cool or I could blow on it, causing the energy to spread around the room more quickly. I think more airflow makes the room reach thermal equilibrium more quickly even if the same amount of energy is dumped. That's because the air circulation is just better.

Also, a pump can produce heat. And to be almost stupidly pedantic, friction of the water in the system causes friction, which increases temperature extremely slightly. Actually, continuing down that logic, water cooling involves more fans which means more friction.

These points probably won't appreciably affect a person's room temperature though. But if I had to guess, I would say that water cooling does make the room hotter.


Anyone with a better background of science please feel free to correct me.

[DoctorZeus]

You might be better off buying a decent sized air conditioner that fits the needs of your room

[Scitesh]

@Zev-Ron @LinusTech Salazar Studio and joker productions recently did video on this very topic 

[Platypus_90]

3 hours ago, Dark_wizzie said:

A chip that is cooler draws less power. So if keep a chip cooler with watercooling is it possible that the heat that there is to give off from the chip is lower because the chip is more efficient, and ever so slightly causing the room to be cooler when compared to air cooling?

Thermodynamics are a b****. But I have to backup Mr. Tech-Tips. Yes the heat capacity of a water cooler might be bigger than the heat capacity of a metal cooler, BUT any pc cooling  will submit the same amount of energy to its surroundings, in this case cpu heat, given some time (i.e. a gaming session), because that's the Energy you add to the system. Also the radiator of a water cooling system is still made of aluminium/copper. its conducts heat just as well as an Aircooler, but has a much bigger surface area. Which is why it transports heat more efficiently from the cpu to the air, using the fluid, leading to a lower delta t.. I don't know how clear that is, English is not my first language. Also pumps are not a big factor, a d5 pump at 12V adds about 10W (going by the datasheet) of heat to the system, in part through the pump housing and in part into the loop. That's not very much.

 

5 hours ago, LinusTech said:

Better cooling is still better.

A lower delta t is what you're looking for.. so an AiO with a big surface rad is a good idea to keep your cpu cool as can be. But it wouldn't do you much good

[Zev-Ron]

6 hours ago, DoctorZeus said:

You might be better off buying a decent sized air conditioner that fits the needs of your room

The place where I plan on keeping my PC is almost open so air condition is not an option for me

 

[BoredErica]

21 hours ago, Platypus_90 said:

Yes the heat capacity of a water cooler might be bigger than the heat capacity of a metal cooler,

You're saying that like I mentioned heat capacity. When did I, and how is that relevant to my points?

 

Quote

BUT any pc cooling  will submit the same amount of energy to its surroundings, in this case cpu heat, given some time (i.e. a gaming session), because that's the Energy you add to the system.

Your assumption is that in both cooling types the amount of energy to get rid of is always the same. I'm saying that might not always be true.

I already mentioned in my post about reaching thermal equilibrium faster.

Quote

Also the radiator of a water cooling system is still made of aluminium/copper. its conducts heat just as well as an Aircooler, but has a much bigger surface area. Which is why it transports heat more efficiently from the cpu to the air, using the fluid, leading to a lower delta t.. I don't know how clear that is, English is not my first language.

How is that relevant to anything? I never said the metal in a radiator is magical and can't be used in air cooling.

Quote

Also pumps are not a big factor, a d5 pump at 12V adds about 10W (going by the datasheet) of heat to the system, in part through the pump housing and in part into the loop. That's not very much.

You did not read my post clearly then. I said that my points probably have no practical implications.

[Platypus_90]

@Dark_wizzie the point was to explain why water cooling leads to a lower delta t (if done right). You didn't mention heat capacity directly, but you described the principle.

On 19.2.2017 at 8:39 AM, Dark_wizzie said:

If I have a bowl of hot soup I could wait for it to cool or I could blow on it, causing the energy to spread around the room more quickly. I think more airflow makes the room reach thermal equilibrium more quickly even if the same amount of energy is dumped. That's because the air circulation is just better.

The hot bowl of soup technically has a heat capacity, i.e. it's hot and can give energy to the system. I merely explained why water cooling does that better. Because the area to transmit the energy is bigger (radiator). Lastly about the pump, i was a bit curious and calculated that from the spec sheet, because its not on it. Heat Energy~ Power-waste=Electrical Power-mechanical power of the pump. That comes out to about ten watts. 

[Mattias Edeslatt]

On 2017-02-19 at 8:39 AM, Dark_wizzie said:

A chip that is cooler draws less power. So if keep a chip cooler with watercooling is it possible that the heat that there is to give off from the chip is lower because the chip is more efficient, and ever so slightly causing the room to be cooler when compared to air cooling?

How is that even possible? With that (twisted) logic a PC (and all of your electrical gadgets) draws less lower if you have an air-conditioned environment.... 

 

So in that case, my PC should draw less energy/is more power efficient in my 20C ambient environment in Sweden than in the original posters 40C ambient in India 

[BoredErica]

6 hours ago, Mattias Edeslatt said:

How is that even possible? With that (twisted) logic a PC (and all of your electrical gadgets) draws less lower if you have an air-conditioned environment.... 

 

So in that case, my PC should draw less energy/is more power efficient in my 20C ambient environment in Sweden than in the original posters 40C ambient in India 

It's not twisted. I believe it's well known among hardcore overclockers. Why does having lower temperature reduce the required voltage to achieve stability? 
Look at Actually Hardcore Overclocking's thread on 1.52v being the max voltage, it was talked about somewhere in that video. A chip that is cooler is more efficient. Slightly.

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/effect-of-temperature-on-power-consumption-with-the-i7-2600k.2200205/

As stated in the link above: 

Quote

The reason why the power-consumption is increasing with temperature has to do entirely with the static leakage power consumption of the CPU (it is independent of clockspeed, solely dependent on temperature and voltage) and a phenomenon known in physics as the Poole-Frenkel effect.

Did you know that the temperature of the air changes the frequencies of sound traveling through it? Or that if you lived on a tower versus underground you will live for less time due to the changes in the passage of time? There are many crazy things that happen as you change conditions, it's just that the changes are often too small for a regular human to recognize.

 

11 hours ago, Platypus_90 said:

@Dark_wizzie the point was to explain why water cooling leads to a lower delta t (if done right). You didn't mention heat capacity directly, but you described the principle.

The hot bowl of soup technically has a heat capacity, i.e. it's hot and can give energy to the system. I merely explained why water cooling does that better. Because the area to transmit the energy is bigger (radiator).

So you're agreeing with everything I said, right?

[Platypus_90]

@Dark_wizzie If it's important to you, yes. 

[Mattias Edeslatt]

14 hours ago, Dark_wizzie said:

It's not twisted. I believe it's well known among hardcore overclockers. Why does having lower temperature reduce the required voltage to achieve stability? 
Look at Actually Hardcore Overclocking's thread on 1.52v being the max voltage, it was talked about somewhere in that video. A chip that is cooler is more efficient. Slightly.

https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/effect-of-temperature-on-power-consumption-with-the-i7-2600k.2200205/

Thanks for reply, I shall check out your link. You always learn something new.... 

 

I know that lower temperature yields better stability and therefore you can get away with lower voltage. But if that = the component draws less power I don't know.