CPU Fan running at 100% above 75°C

[rabiet]

Hey there!

 

I'm having some issues with my Asus Z170M-Plus motherboard!

I have an i7 7700k on it, currently clocked at 5GHz which it runs just fine. I do have an Arctic Liquid Freezer 240mm AIO Cooler which provides enough cooling for the Kaby Lake chip to operate under safe boundaries. However, my mainboard seems to think otherwise. Whenever the CPU gets hit with a short load (like opening up a programm) the CPU Fans turn on 100% (which is quite loud). Also: When the CPU hits 75°C (which is still safe, imho), which it only barely does, the fans ramp up to 100% percent aswell. I can't change the 75°C Limit. Not in the BIOS and also not in Fan Expert. 75°C seems to be the limit which is actually ridiculous, because the CPU could easily take more without taking damage.

 

Has anyone ever run into that problem? Is there any fix? Do I have a chance to get around it? I already tried SpeedFan, but it's unable to set the fan speeds at all!

 

I hope someone can help me!

Thanks in advance!

 

rabiet

[rabiet]

Also it might be important to know that I Daisy-Chained the four fans of that radiator together with the pump.

[scottyseng]

1 hour ago, rabiet said:

Also it might be important to know that I Daisy-Chained the four fans of that radiator together with the pump.

I would recommend separating the fans and the pump. The pump cannot spin down as low as the fans can.

 

For example, my H105 pump turns off at 40% speed. My delta fans can PWM all the down to 400RPM at 10% PWM.

 

If the pump turns off due to being together with the fans, the temps will spike because there's no water flow. Then your motherboard full throttles everything (which turns the pump on) to cool down the CPU.

 

I would separate the pump out, and run it at full speed personally. I would then adjust the fan curves (depending on the motherboard, you have software for it) for the fans. Usually the BIOS default fan curve is a linear one.

[rabiet]

21 minutes ago, scottyseng said:

I would recommend separating the fans and the pump. The pump cannot spin down as low as the fans can.

 

For example, my H105 pump turns off at 40% speed. My delta fans can PWM all the down to 400RPM at 10% PWM.

 

If the pump turns off due to being together with the fans, the temps will spike because there's no water flow. Then your motherboard full throttles everything (which turns the pump on) to cool down the CPU.

 

I would separate the pump out, and run it at full speed personally. I would then adjust the fan curves (depending on the motherboard, you have software for it) for the fans. Usually the BIOS default fan curve is a linear one.

Thanks for your answer!

 

Unfortunately, this didn't make a difference (which I could have guessed, because the temps were okay before). But still, putting the pump to a different fan header made sense! Even though setting the pump to 100% is audible, you can't really tell because my board has awful coil whine.

 

I've noticed that every time I have these 100% spikes below 75°C, Asus Fan Xpert 3 sets the fans to 100% even though it knows the temps don't need it (indicated by the little orange dot that is higher than the curves tells it to be). On the screenshot I'll attach you can see this phenomenon (I wasn't able to catch it being at 100% but you can see the fan speed is set high than it should be).

 

[done12many2]

15 minutes ago, rabiet said:

Thanks for your answer!

 

Unfortunately, this didn't make a difference (which I could have guessed, because the temps were okay before). But still, putting the pump to a different fan header made sense! Even though setting the pump to 100% is audible, you can't really tell because my board has awful coil whine.

 

I've noticed that every time I have these 100% spikes below 75°C, Asus Fan Xpert 3 sets the fans to 100% even though it knows the temps don't need it (indicated by the little orange dot that is higher than the curves tells it to be). On the screenshot I'll attach you can see this phenomenon (I wasn't able to catch it being at 100% but you can see the fan speed is set high than it should be).

 

Move your mid point (currently at 60c and 600 RPMs) down to 450 RPMs and drag it to the right to 75c.  See if that helps.

 

The reason why your fans are ramping up is because they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.  If your CPU is shooting up in temps, no matter for how short of a burst, the motherboard is responding by increasing the fan speed.  Nothing new there.  If you want it to stop, you need to improve upon cooling or reduce peak temps by reducing voltage and therefor overclock.

[rabiet]

11 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

Move your mid point (currently at 60c and 600 RPMs) down to 450 RPMs and drag it to the right to 75c.  See if that helps.

 

The reason why your fans are ramping up is because they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.  If your CPU is shooting up in temps, no matter for how short of a burst, the motherboard is responding by increasing the fan speed.  Nothing new there.  If you want it to stop, you need to improve upon cooling or reduce peak temps by reducing voltage and therefor overclock.

I did move the mid point, unfortunately that didn't help with the spikes...

Also, my bigger concern is the 75°C limit. Because with the overclock I have I touch that limit but don't go above it really (even with the fans turned down I never get above 80°C). I just can't believe Asus just set this as a limit one can never get around so I guess there must be some way, right?

[done12many2]

2 minutes ago, rabiet said:

I did move the mid point, unfortunately that didn't help with the spikes...

Also, my bigger concern is the 75°C limit. Because with the overclock I have I touch that limit but don't go above it really (even with the fans turned down I never get above 80°C). I just can't believe Asus just set this as a limit one can never get around so I guess there must be some way, right?

 

It makes complete sense.  There's nothing wrong with the max.  If the fans wait until the CPU gets to 85c or whatever number you personally feel comfortable with, it may be too late to attempt to bring temps back down fast enough.  You have to remember that with certain load types, heat increases so rapidly that triggering at 75c might not be fast enough.

 

The fact that you are hitting 75c when opening software suggests that you need to work cooling capacity, and worry a bit less about the max.  Your heat transfer at the onset of load is not happening fast enough.

[JoostinOnline]

It's trying to keep it from going above 75C.  If the fan wasn't at full speed, it would be much higher.

[rabiet]

15 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

It makes complete sense.  There's nothing wrong with the max.  If the fans wait until the CPU gets to 85c or whatever number you personally feel comfortable with, it may be too late to attempt to bring temps back down fast enough.  You have to remember that with certain load types, heat increases so rapidly that triggering at 75c might not be fast enough.

 

The fact that you are hitting 75c when opening software suggests that you need to work cooling capacity, and worry a bit less about the max.  Your heat transfer at the onset of load is not happening fast enough.

 

Well... What I get from what you're saying is that I either have to life with a really loud PC, get a better cooling system or turn the overclock down, right?

What I did now was the last thing: I put the CPU on 4,8GHz (even though it pains me to not get that sweet 5GHz) and it runs perfectly silent and quite cool compared to before (60°C max on ~50% Fan speed). Building a custom water loop is just not a thing for me at the moment because these things are expensive!

 

I see you have an i7 7700k as well! Just as a reference, how much did you have to turn the voltage up to achieve the overclock you did? Because I have a feeling my chip just isn't that good of an overclocker!

 

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

It's trying to keep it from going above 75C.  If the fan wasn't at full speed, it would be much higher.

Funnily enough: The fan not being at full speed doesn't let the CPU get warmer than 80°C. I tried using a resistor between then fan header and the fans (which I don't want to operate full time because that really isn't the solution!) and the temps were stable!

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, rabiet said:

 

Well... What I get from what you're saying is that I either have to life with a really loud PC, get a better cooling system or turn the overclock down, right?

What I did now was the last thing: I put the CPU on 4,8GHz (even though it pains me to not get that sweet 5GHz) and it runs perfectly silent and quite cool compared to before (60°C max on ~50% Fan speed). Building a custom water loop is just not a thing for me at the moment because these things are expensive!

 

You nailed it bud.  You just have to remember the the firmware based fan controller on the motherboard is responding to those short burst of heat a lot faster than what you're seeing in monitoring software due to polling times.  

 

Another thing you may want to check into, is do you actually need all of the voltage that you were using for your 5 GHz overclock?  People tend to overshoot voltage a bit.

 

1 minute ago, rabiet said:

 

I see you have an i7 7700k as well! Just as a reference, how much did you have to turn the voltage up to achieve the overclock you did? Because I have a feeling my chip just isn't that good of an overclocker!

 

My chip is delidded so it might not be very comparable.  It's an above average chip too.  With that said, 5.3 GHz for an 8 hour RealBench load took 1.439v with a max temp of 65c.

 

I've been through a lot of 7700k CPUs.  Literally dozens and I can tell you that they are not all created equal, but I can say that of the 8 that I've delidded so far, everyone of them has improved dramatically voltage and temperature wise.  Delidding is key.

[rabiet]

7 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

You nailed it bud.  You just have to remember the the firmware based fan controller on the motherboard is responding to those short burst of heat a lot faster than what you're seeing in monitoring software due to polling times.  

 

Another thing you may want to check into, is do you actually need all of the voltage that you were using for your 5 GHz overclock?  People tend to overshoot voltage a bit.

 

 

My chip is delidded so it might not be very comparable.  It's an above average chip too.  With that said, 5.3 GHz for an 8 hour RealBench load took 1.439v with a max temp of 65c.

 

I've been through a lot of 7700k CPUs.  Literally dozens and I can tell you that they are not all created equal, but I can say that of the 8 that I've delidded so far, everyone of them has improved dramatically voltage and temperature wise.  Delidding is key.

Sadly enough, I really did need the 1,408V to be stable at 5GHz. To be honest, it felt quite awful pushing +0.175V through the chip for just 500MHz more, but I guess that's just how things are.

Unfortunately, I do not have the money to just go out and buy another chip to achieve a better overclock.

 

I am quite afraid of delidding the processor. Especially after seeing Linus break one^^

If mine broke, I wouldn't have a PC for quite a while and I can't afford that happening, so... Is there really that much of a benefit?

 

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, rabiet said:

Sadly enough, I really did need the 1,408V to be stable at 5GHz. To be honest, it felt quite awful pushing +0.175V through the chip for just 500MHz more, but I guess that's just how things are.

Unfortunately, I do not have the money to just go out and buy another chip to achieve a better overclock.

 

I am quite afraid of delidding the processor. Especially after seeing Linus break one^^

If mine broke, I wouldn't have a PC for quite a while and I can't afford that happening, so... Is there really that much of a benefit?

 

 

Yeah, 1.408v at 5 GHz is pretty high.  No doubt that you'd drop some voltage required with a delid.

 

I can appreciate your position and completely understand the concern with damaging your CPU.  I can tell you that with the right tool, it's fool proof.  I use a Delid-Die-Mate and it's too damn easy and very safe.  I resealed my current chip, so as far as anyone could tell, it's a stock 7700k complete with the black silicone and all.

 

As far as if there's much benefit.  Hell yes!!  Voltage and temperatures will drop.  The voltage drop will depend on how bad your factory TIM and gapping (between die and IHS) were, but the temperature drop will always be dramatic to the tune of 20c+.  Like I said, I've delidded 8 of them and not one has gotten less then a 20c max temp drop and some were closer to 30c.  

 

If you are worried about breaking it, which is VERY unlikely with the proper tool, then consider sending it off to Silicon Lottery to have him delid it for you.  I think he charges $50 for it.

 

I just finished this 8 hour test a few minutes ago.  I would say it's worth it.  

 

 

[rabiet]

5 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

Yeah, 1.408v at 5 GHz is pretty high.  No doubt that you'd drop some voltage required with a delid.

 

I can appreciate your position and completely understand the concern with damaging your CPU.  I can tell you that with the right tool, it's fool proof.  I use a Delid-Die-Mate and it's too damn easy and very safe.  I resealed my current chip, so as far as anyone could tell, it's a stock 7700k complete with the black silicone and all.

 

As far as if there's much benefit.  Hell yes!!  Voltage and temperatures will drop.  The voltage drop will depend on how bad your factory TIM and gapping (between die and IHS) were, but the temperature drop will always be dramatic to the tune of 20c+.  Like I said, I've delidded 8 of them and not one has gotten less then a 20c max temp drop and some were closer to 30c.  

 

If you are worried about breaking it, which is VERY unlikely with the proper tool, then consider sending it off to Silicon Lottery to have him delid it for you.  I think he charges $50 for it.

 

I just finished this 8 hour test a few minutes ago.  I would say it's worth it.  

 

 

I don't know what to think of this... How can Intel be cheaping out on thermal paste when the CPUs cost $400+... 

 

I might look into delidding it some time in the future! As of now, I guess I'll just have to be okay with the 4,8GHz I get and that's it. It's not like the CPU would be slow by any means!

 

Anyways, thanks for your help and tips!

[scottyseng]

9 minutes ago, rabiet said:

-snip-

Ah, sorry for the late reply, I was busy with website work.

 

Another thing I would try in addition to the above is reseating the CPU pump. On my cousin's PC, I had to go drive to his house because his 5820K was exceeding 90C at a reduced overclock than when I originally built the PC for him (When I built it, it never went past 83C). It turns out he reseated the cooler, but he hand tightened the screws, so the Corsair H100i GTX pump was loose. I literally just tightened the screws with a screwdriver and the temps shot down by 15C.

 

Also, to smooth out the sudden jumps, you can add a delay to the fan speed increase by adding time to the "Fan Spin up time / Fan Spin down time".

 

Yeah, unfortunately overclocking will always be a give or take with voltage / silicon lottery. I myself got a 2700K upgrade (had a 2500K at 4.6GHz @ 1.4v before...and I couldn't justify the cost to jump to Kaby Lake) recently, and I got it to 4.9GHz @ 1.45v, but the jump from 4.8GHz (1.38v) was quite a bit. I had to upgrade from my Hyper 212+ to a H105 to keep it cool. All in all, we have to remember we can't win all of the time with overclocking sadly.

 

I also would recommend delidding, but please use a tool. Don't use a vise like linus (Unless you really are good with tools). I can't say everything that Linus does is well, recommended / should be attempted.

[rabiet]

17 minutes ago, scottyseng said:

Ah, sorry for the late reply, I was busy with website work.

 

Another thing I would try in addition to the above is reseating the CPU pump. On my cousin's PC, I had to go drive to his house because his 5820K was exceeding 90C at a reduced overclock than when I originally built the PC for him (When I built it, it never went past 83C). It turns out he reseated the cooler, but he hand tightened the screws, so the Corsair H100i GTX pump was loose. I literally just tightened the screws with a screwdriver and the temps shot down by 15C.

 

Also, to smooth out the sudden jumps, you can add a delay to the fan speed increase by adding time to the "Fan Spin up time / Fan Spin down time".

 

Yeah, unfortunately overclocking will always be a give or take with voltage / silicon lottery. I myself got a 2700K upgrade (had a 2500K at 4.6GHz @ 1.4v before...and I couldn't justify the cost to jump to Kaby Lake) recently, and I got it to 4.9GHz @ 1.45v, but the jump from 4.8GHz (1.38v) was quite a bit. I had to upgrade from my Hyper 212+ to a H105 to keep it cool. All in all, we have to remember we can't win all of the time with overclocking sadly.

 

I also would recommend delidding, but please use a tool. Don't use a vise like linus (Unless you really are good with tools). I can't say everything that Linus does is well, recommended / should be attempted.

I probably will delid the processor, now after seeing a lot of the YouTube Videos and you guys supporting it!

But I think I will do it at a time when at least I would have some sort of backup plan if something breaks. I work with that PC and being without the ability to work is not something I desire!

 

But thanks for making it clear that delidding is something one really should do. I always thought of it as something only these "I want two Hz more on my first core even though it will probably kill everything"-type of guys do.

[scottyseng]

6 hours ago, rabiet said:

-snip-

Yeah, I would first reinstall the CPU pump, just to make sure it's not loose.

 

Then I'd wait until you save up some funds in case something does go wrong, but I doubt you will. I have other friends that want to delid their CPUs as well since I have the tool. I kind of thought I was going to Kaby Lake, but decided not to...bought the tool too early. haha.

 

Well, the ones delidding the soldered X99 CPUs are probably the ones that deserve the title. It's one thing to delid a thermal pasted $350-400 7700K, but it's another to delid a soldered $1700 6950x...