Coding Bootcamps

[Guest]

How would you say if a coding bootcamp is good or not?

 

I found this article

https://techbeacon.com/complete-guide-top-24-coding-bootcamps

 

but I have never heard of tech beacon before (and as public school told me, if it's not a .org or .gov you should be a bit skepticle) and I spoke to a representative on the phone for a long time and the man sounded sincere, but I wanted to make see if there was anything you could say that I can check to see if the bootcamp is good or not.

[straight_stewie]

2 hours ago, fpo said:

(and as public school told me, if it's not a .org or .gov you should be a bit skepticle)

I'm not sure I'd put too much stock into what that particular school told you. 

Barring that, however, I would do what the very first thing in the article you linked to tells you to: "Try programming before you invest money in a bootcamp". Then, to get intermediate information (just as a double check), you can start working on some projecteuler.net problems. They will help you learn how to program, while forcing you to do a little more research into the problem itself. These will challenge you.

After all of that, you'll know enough to decide for yourself if a particular "bootcamp" is worth it. But whatever you do, please keep in mind that these types of things rarely teach you much at all. You will get to a job (if you're very lucky), and realize that the bootcamp taught you practically nothing. You cannot, no matter what you do, learn in the 4-17 weeks that these things take, what you can learn in a 4 year bachelors degree. 4 - 17 weeks is barely enough to get a good understanding of your first programming language, much less the underlying theories and methods of all programming.

Personally, unless I was just wealthy and bored, I would never spend any amount of money on a coding bootcamp.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, straight_stewie said:

snip

I have programmed quite a bit, and know I like it. I just want to learn more. This seemed like a good way to be taught a huge chunk of things at once. 

 

I love learning how to program by programming as well but it feels slow. Noting how you said (and common sense) I should be skepticle about what the school has told me, I've mention a bit of programming experience I have so he seemed a bit confident I'd do well. (I spent an hour on the phone inquiring about the camp asking detailed questions) But then again unless I get someone else to call and act completely different we cannot be sure. 

 

Have you personally had or known people that tried in boot camps and got such a poor outcome that you've proposed? 

 

The coding boot camp I found is about $14,000 US which is way cheaper compared to 2 more years of my college which doesn't have good programming teachers, and the CS school I attended had teachers surprisingly worse. (I attended some higher level class sessions) 

 

Apologies if this post comes off biased. I'm just unsure of how else I can learn to program well. My parents really want to see a piece of paper with my name on it so it's not like I can drop out and read textbooks whilst making a portfolio. I asked. 

 

What are some alternatives you'd recommend for me? I know a bit of C#, C++, Java, and smaller bits of other languages. The school I found does a full stack (front and back end development) course that I am interested in with C# .NET and a bit of JavaScript. I'm supposedly going to leave with a portfolio of projects I make over the course. 

[SCHISCHKA]

It's better to have a project than spend money on a boot camp. Is the boot camp going to give you real life scenarios and get you contributing to a team? That is more important than being an expert at a language

[Guest]

6 hours ago, SCHISCHKA said:

It's better to have a project than spend money on a boot camp. Is the boot camp going to give you real life scenarios and get you contributing to a team? That is more important than being an expert at a language

I was informed that by week 2 they do mock job interviews, and there will be scenarios in which you will work in teams. The guy will follow up on Monday. I would like to ask a few of these questions. Just to note them:

 

Will I work and contribute to working in a team?

What work experience has the teacher that will be teaching my session have?

 

I was informed that we would at least work in teams of 2 for some projects.

[sgzUk74r3T3BCGmRJ]

?

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, sgzUk74r3T3BCGmRJ said:

snip

I'm going to look up the school and find some lecturers. If I get a chance I will ask to speak with the C# .NET teacher before deciding on the school.
I got the linked in to the representative on the phone. I will see about getting linked ins and looking through talks the professors did.

I'll be wary of the "I worked at" things, and check to see portfolios of past students.

 

They had a list of 

Quote

Premier Hiring
Partners

We partner with some of the best companies
in the industry to help students get hired.

Our graduates are offered software developer jobs with top brands

listed places like

Hewlett Packard (HP)

Chase Bank

and a few company logos I don't recognize.

 

There are 4 projects on the website. each has 2 or 3 members that worked on it. 3 are mobile apps, one seems to be a Mac app or website.

They have a list of technologies used for each application/website

 

Mac website:

HTML, CSS, Bootstrap, Angular, ASP.NET

 

mobile app 1:

Ionic, AngularJS, JavaScript, C#, WebAPI, HTML, CSS, Google API, Leaflet API, Uber API

 

mobile app 2:

C#, Javascript, AngularJS, ASP .NET MVC, Ionic, HTML5, CSS, LINQ

 

mobile app 3:

HTML, CSS, Bootstrap, Angular, ASP.NET, Javascript

 

No names are listed twice.

 

There seems to be a large team of people (employees/instructors and mentors) but you cannot click on profiles to learn more about them.

[SCHISCHKA]

13 hours ago, fpo said:

I was informed that by week 2 they do mock job interviews, and there will be scenarios in which you will work in teams. The guy will follow up on Monday. I would like to ask a few of these questions. Just to note them:

 

Will I work and contribute to working in a team?

What work experience has the teacher that will be teaching my session have?

 

I was informed that we would at least work in teams of 2 for some projects.

good questions but i do recommend have an ongoing project for when the boot camp is over

[Guest]

13 hours ago, SCHISCHKA said:

good questions but i do recommend have an ongoing project for when the boot camp is over

As in pick something I can continue even after I finish the boot camp?

[Yamoto42]

On 2/11/2017 at 11:14 AM, sgzUk74r3T3BCGmRJ said:

This isn't a University, you're not there to bask in the glow of people who would rather be doing research than teaching Algorithms 201, you're paying for access to engaging instructors so find out about them.

In general, this wasn't really my college experience, at least not for computer science.  That is something (again in my personal experience) that you really find more in the hard sciences, such as physics and especially chemistry.  At least in engineering, it's just the kids looking to become "1337 h4x0rZ" that don't even last half a semester of introductory C++ that get on their nerves.

[Guest]

@Yamoto42 @SCHISCHKA @sgzUk74r3T3BCGmRJ @straight_stewie 

 

I have spoken with the rep at the boot camp again and he gave me an e-mail to the head professor at his location.
They've been around since 2013 and still going today with multiple locations. He was saying how many boot camps are ones that come and go "mom and pop" or "Let's try this" thing. I was curious if that's what you guys were worried about. He said they used to be that way but they have an extensive teacher list, and 3 or 4 locations all of which are established software developers. I asked what exactly that meant which I will follow up with on the head professor. The rep was trying to be as transparent as possible, and is saying so.

 

The guy believes I am getting into Analysis paralysis, which I understand, but as we all know;

 

Anyway, I had found one GitHub profile of a teacher but lost the link in my research. I was informed yes we learn to work in groups, and have a project, but it's a we choose the groups kinda thing so it's really up to the students. He claimed that there was a group of 5 once and some wanted to continue the project, others were just like "we want jobs" of which the best student was offered a salary of $80,000 as he was the best and practiced and whatnot. None of the teachers are or were students of the camp in the past. I can return to the camp to take as many classes(camps) as I wish for free once I take one bootcamp. It is a "coder for life" program they have.

 

I feel he was a bit annoyed as I did open with

Quote

1. Why is your bootcamp charging money before attending the college? I've seen a number of camps that are 100% free until you get hired.

He gave the obvious answer as they're a business. I told him I posted on a forum and so many of these questions were from people knowing what they're doing and full time people. As from what I've seen from you guys in general seems true. What do you guys think? If any optimism, give me an agree, if still doubtful, or unsure, click thumbs up if you don't have enough to say to warrant a reply.

 

I'm e-mailing the head teacher

Quote

Hello, my name is ____ and I found your bootcamp online. I've been talking to ______. I was told I've been asking questions really stretching his ability to answer so he supplied me with your contact. I don't wish to harass you so I'll just list a few questions I hope you can answer.

I was hoping you could tell me; What makes someone an "established software developer" in the eyes of your bootcamp? I was told all the teachers are Established software developers.

Next I just was curious to have some links to Git hub profiles of some of the professors. I've been asking about what makes a good bootcamp on a forum, and one of the things the people were saying was to have a skim of some of the Git Hubs for the professors.

Just these 2 simple questions. Thank you very much! Looking forward to hearing back from you.

What do you think?

[sgzUk74r3T3BCGmRJ]

?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, sgzUk74r3T3BCGmRJ said:

This is just me thinking out loud.

• I'll grant them everything they say about how big their business is, how awesome their teachers work histories are. None of that matters to you. You're concerned with two things:
  • How well is the instructor going to be able to teach you to program. His or her ability to program does not tell you anything about how good of a teacher they are. You care that the instructor isn't "just some dude who followed a tutorial once", but ultimately you really want to see the code of graduates. Judging the work of people who went through the program before you will give you an idea of how much you'll learn when you go through.
  • It's easy to make extra-ordinary claims. "Students hired by Google" is true, even if the person was hired for $35k/year to respond to complaints about racist comments on YouTube videos. Likewise, $80k is a lot of money in many places: it's nearly double the average American salary, but if that's a quote for a person in the Bay Area then it's not even enough to rent a parking spot to keep your cardboard box.

This makes perfect sense. I'll ask to see GitHub projects from students, and perhaps post some links here to see what you all think. Someone above noted we should look at GitHub profiles.

 

The school hasn't mentioned any specific places that were hiring their students though. The website lists "hiring partners" but in some reviews online I heard it was bs. A lot of mixed reviews exit online so I'm not sure.

 

Do any of you know any good bootcamps in particular to compare or attend in favor of?

[Guest]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 8:45 PM, Erik Sieghart said:

Give me a team of 8 developers from a coding bootcamp and I'll give you 8 months of bugs to fix after you fire them a week later...

 

The idea that you can learn front and back-end programming in a handful of weeks is so absurd it hurts my brain. Do they mean web development? Because I'm pretty sure you're not learning shit in two months about either front or back-end. And don't touch my back-end or else I will murder your keyboard.

The last thing we need are coders running around who've basically memorized things without any understanding about how they work.

It seems you are discontent with people "learning" in a few weeks, as well as having the idea of people just memorizing things that "work."

 

If I attend this bootcamp, what else should I try and look into to try and prevent myself from becoming a problem in your eyes presuming this is a bad bootcamp?

[Yamoto42]

17 hours ago, fpo said:

It seems you are discontent with people "learning" in a few weeks

I don't think it's necessarily 'discontent' per se, but arguing whether or not it's actually possible.

 

 

17 hours ago, fpo said:

as well as having the idea of people just memorizing things that "work."

The key word there is 'work'.  Thing's often times only truly work when they're used properly.  This goes back tot he previous question of whether it is actually possible to learn in a few weeks.  I know how a hammer and chisel work, but that doesn't qualify me to recreate Michelangelo's David.

Ultimately, this is an area where experience truly matters, and there is no substitute.  Training can show you some of the available tools, and get you started.  It can teach you some basic design principles.

To bring back the art analogy, it can show you how to use and maintain a hammer and chisel, but only experience can teach you where to strike the stone.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Yamoto42 said:

I msnip

That makes sense. Okay so it's still just the we don't know for sure we'd learn enough in such a short time. 

 

You all severely doubt it's possible to be good enough in such a short time.