Intel's responses to AMD Ryzen with i7 7740K and i5 7640K

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, MrDynamicMan said:

And what happens to your warranty when you remove the cooler? 

Most of the time it is voided, but some will still take the card back.

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

And what happens to your warranty when you remove the cooler? 

Depends on the company. EVGA doesn't void warranties on TIM swaps, but companies like Sapphire do. It's best to check with the individual manufacturer to see whether or not their warranties are voided upon removal of your heatsink.

[MrDynamicMan]

7 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

Most of the time it is voided, but some will still take the card back.

 

6 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Depends on the company. EVGA doesn't void warranties on TIM swaps, but companies like Sapphire do. It's best to check with the individual manufacturer to see whether or not their warranties are voided upon removal of your heatsink.

My general point is that most of the time warranty gets voided for exposing the chip, and the reasons CPUs don't come delidded is because all PC builder have to handle the CPU in one way or another. So, while the 10% who really care about OC or temp will delid and probably be fine, it's so that the CPU is still protected from the other 90%, who, being inexperienced, might damage the CPU and Intel now has a Crapton of free i5s to hand out. And, whilst gpus don't have lids on them is because the don't need to: its already protected by the heatsink. 

 

The reason EVGA probably allows it is because 

A) they understand that very few people will take the heatsink off

B) they'll know what they're doing if they are

C) its good marketing. 

 

[MageTank]

36 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

 

My general point is that most of the time warranty gets voided for exposing the chip, and the reasons CPUs don't come delidded is because all PC builder have to handle the CPU in one way or another. So, while the 10% who really care about OC or temp will delid and probably be fine, it's so that the CPU is still protected from the other 90%, who, being inexperienced, might damage the CPU and Intel now has a Crapton of free i5s to hand out. And, whilst gpus don't have lids on them is because the don't need to: its already protected by the heatsink. 

 

The reason EVGA probably allows it is because 

A) they understand that very few people will take the heatsink off

B) they'll know what they're doing if they are

C) its good marketing. 

 

Another reason is that EVGA sells hybrid kits that involve removing the original heatsink to use them. Had they voided warranty on heatsink removal, not many would want to buy these upgrade kits out of fear of their card failing in the future, and losing the ability to get another card in return. 

 

The CPU dilemma isn't an easy one to solve. The issue is in the automation of the assembly, and the excessive/uneven glue that is applied AFTER the TIM is applied. Remove the automation, and you will deal with higher costs (having to pay employees to do it by hand) and then the risk of getting worse products due to human error (someone slides IHS around, causing TIM to be bare in certain spots, or scratches die for the same reason).

 

The only way around it, would be a fundamental redesign of the IHS itself and even the CPU PCB that would somehow allow an easier way to remove the IHS (be it with screws, or some sort of retention mechanism on the substrate itself) to allow it to be user-serviceable. That still imposes more risks for Intel, as you don't want your average consumer to have access to the very delicate die of a CPU and not know what precautions they should take when dealing with it. It would just result in less potential damage than taking a vice or blade to a CPU to remove the IHS.

 

When it comes to me, I only recommend delidding if you find yourself in the following situations:

 

1. You have insane per-core temp variances of at least 10C+ (Meaning under equal load, 1 or more cores are 10C+ hotter than the rest)

2. You are limited to sub-par cooling solutions, and need drastically lower temperatures to avoid CPU throttling (the situation I am in when using a 6700k with a 45mm CPU cooler in a tiny ITX case).

 

Situation 1, is a delid out of necessity. This type of situation can result in instability even without overclocking if thermal runaway becomes an issue. Situation 2 can technically be solved with undervolting/underclocking, but someone like me would refuse to invest in a powerful CPU just to cripple it on purpose for the sake of ITX. Would rather buy a T SKU if I was going to do that in the first place.

[spadz93]

I feel a little underwhelmed, honestly. Was hoping for a bit more punch. Maybe they'll roll out with a 7790k and that'll pack a bigger punch with a bigger cache size and even stronger clock speed. Kid can dream, right?

[MageTank]

6 minutes ago, spadz93 said:

I feel a little underwhelmed, honestly. Was hoping for a bit more punch. Maybe they'll roll out with a 7790k and that'll pack a bigger punch with a bigger cache size and even stronger clock speed. Kid can dream, right?

The cache size won't change unless the thread count changes. I can't imagine we will see more than 8mb on a 4c/8t SKU. 

[spadz93]

1 minute ago, MageTank said:

The cache size won't change unless the thread count changes. I can't imagine we will see more than 8mb on a 4c/8t SKU. 

Which brought up my second wish that I decided not to type. Up the core count to 6 on more of the i7's, or at least make some of the 6 core machines a LITTLE more affordable

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, spadz93 said:

Which brought up my second wish that I decided not to type. Up the core count to 6 on more of the i7's, or at least make some of the 6 core machines a LITTLE more affordable

Depending on how well the 8c/16t Zen SKU does, you just might get your wish. Intel will likely try to compete by either bolstering the current consumer platform with more threads, or making the prosumer/enthusiast platform more accessible by lowering the prices. 

[spadz93]

7 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Depending on how well the 8c/16t Zen SKU does, you just might get your wish. Intel will likely try to compete by either bolstering the current consumer platform with more threads, or making the prosumer/enthusiast platform more accessible by lowering the prices. 

Agreed. Time just needs to move forward already, this is more fun to watch than the superbowl

[Misanthrope]

5 hours ago, Prysin said:

you really want to get banned again, don't you?

 

and yes, you got banned until a few days ago. And yes i know. because i have undisclosed trustworthy inside sources.

"My sources are the best, and you're fake news!"

[79wjd]

29 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Depending on how well the 8c/16t Zen SKU does, you just might get your wish. Intel will likely try to compete by either bolstering the current consumer platform with more threads, or making the prosumer/enthusiast platform more accessible by lowering the prices. 

The way I see the 7640k is Intel beginning the transition to hyperthreaded i5's. While I don't expect the 7640k to be priced like an i5 (more like an 6700 non-k), I expect Coffee Lake i5's to be priced liked i5s while being i7s, and at that point, Intel will have to do something with the i7s -- so I would expect more cores (6c/12t)

[MageTank]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The way I see the 7640k is Intel beginning the transition to hyperthreaded i5's. While I don't expect the 7640k to be priced like an i5 (more like an 6700 non-k), I expect Coffee Lake i5's to be priced liked i5s while being i7s, and at that point, Intel will have to do something with the i7s -- so I would expect more cores (6c/12t)

There is still no evidence of that being true though. Even from the original source:

 

While it's not impossible (We see HT pentiums and unlocked i3's now, so anything is possible) it just seems odd that they would already undercut both the 7600k and 7700k after such a very short release, and without even seeing what Zen can do. Seems silly to me.

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, MageTank said:

There is still no evidence of that being true though. Even from the original source:

 

While it's not impossible (We see HT pentiums and unlocked i3's now, so anything is possible) it just seems odd that they would already undercut both the 7600k and 7700k after such a very short release, and without even seeing what Zen can do. Seems silly to me.

Well, I'm assuming the rumor is true. If it's not true, then that's something else entirely. 

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

ANNNDDDDD There goes any buyers interested in the i7 7700k. Intel: Killing their own flagship products since 1968.

[YuriNator557]

They're scared...

[WMGroomAK]

22 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

Speculations are going around the web that Intel might release 2 new cpus in response to AMD's upcoming Ryzen processors. First one, is the Core i7 7740K, this processor is clocked at 4.3GHz, 100MHz higher, than the Core i7 7700K and has a higher TDP of 100w vs 91w TDP on the 7700K. Next up is the Core i5 7640K, where it will have a based clock of 4GHz, compared to the standard 3.8GHz on the 7600K. One unique feature for this i5, is the support of Hyper Thread. No turbo boost clock were mentioned for both processors and for now this is just a rumor.

 

https://videocardz.com/65708/intel-preparing-core-i7-7740k-a-response-to-amd-ryzen-7-1800x

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/cpu_mainboard/intel_is_reportedly_creating_higher_clocked_kaby_lake_cpus_to_combat_ryzen/1

Not sure if this should add to the rumor speculation, but WCCF had a similar article.  As a part of this, they mention that these processors are being setup for the X299 platform as opposed to the Z270 and that they should be socket LGA 2066. Seems to me that these are being more targeted as entry level to the X299 platform more than anything else... 

 

http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-7740k-core-i5-7640k-amd-ryzen/

[NumLock21]

1 hour ago, WMGroomAK said:

Not sure if this should add to the rumor speculation, but WCCF had a similar article.  As a part of this, they mention that these processors are being setup for the X299 platform as opposed to the Z270 and that they should be socket LGA 2066. Seems to me that these are being more targeted as entry level to the X299 platform more than anything else... 

 

http://wccftech.com/intel-core-i7-7740k-core-i5-7640k-amd-ryzen/

They're pulling info from thin air if it's going to be LGA2066. They have been caught to make things up, like when some dude it a fake ITX board on Ryzen way before it was even announced. They ran a full essay article on it, using information for a board that didn't even exist.

[NTDaws]

What would be the point of the i7 if there is hyperthreading, unless the i7 has 6 cores and 12 threads. Then it makes sense to hyperthread.

[The Sloth]

1 minute ago, Dawson Wehage said:

What would be the point of the i7 if there is hyperthreading, unless the i7 has 6 cores and 12 threads. Then it makes sense to hyperthread.

its a rumour so take it with a grain of salt 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, WMGroomAK said:

Not sure if this should add to the rumor speculation, but WCCF had a similar article

WCCF, need anyone say more? 

[WMGroomAK]

17 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

They're pulling info from thin air if it's going to be LGA2066. They have been caught to make things up, like when some dude it a fake ITX board on Ryzen way before it was even announced. They ran a full essay article on it, using information for a board that didn't even exist.

I honestly agree completely, but I'm having a hard time try to figure out where these rumored Intel CPUs will even fit in with their product stack...  How much are people honestly going to pay to get an extra 100 Mhz of base performance on an i7 that they are just going to overclock?  If they put hyperthreading on an i5, and still call it an i5, they are going to have to price it between the current 7600k and 7700k, and there isn't much room for that without making the most recent i7 or even a 6700k more appealing...   

[VagabondWraith]

I don't believe these HT i5 rumors one iota. Why would Intel cut into the i7 like that? It would be company suicide.

 

It would be like NVidia releasing a 1080 Ti 30 days after the TITAN. Would totally be an asinine decision.

[79wjd]

29 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

I don't believe these HT i5 rumors one iota. Why would Intel cut into the i7 like that? It would be company suicide.

 

It would be like NVidia releasing a 1080 Ti 30 days after the TITAN. Would totally be an asinine decision.

Let's assume the rumor is true, then.....

 

Intel knows Ryzen offers i7 performance around an i5 pricepoint. So as to not be shown up, they price a hyperthreaded quad core to compete with Ryzen before Ryzen even launches. Had Intel done this change on Coffee Lake (4c/4t i3, 4c/8t i5, 6c/6t i7) then no one would be saying it's stupid and undercutting their lineup; however, they did the change in the middle of a generation.

 

Now, that raises the question, if Intel knew what Ryzen was going to be, then why didn't they release Kaby Lake with 4c/4c/6c variants instead of undermining the i7 sales and avoiding the confusion like this i5 will do/cause? One possible answer is that Intel still gets a few extra months where people are paying i7 prices for what will be an i5 by doing it this way rather than buy pushing the old stack down.

 

P.s. the 980Ti was only launched 2.5 months after the Titan X. 

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Now, that raises the question, if Intel knew what Ryzen was going to be, then why didn't they release Kaby Lake with 4c/4c/6c variants instead of undermining the i7 sales and avoiding the confusion like this i5 will do/cause? One possible answer is that Intel still gets a few extra months where people are paying i7 prices for what will be an i5 by doing it this way rather than buy pushing the old stack down.

That and it may have been too late to make such a drastic change to the architecture. I also think Intel is rather skeptical of the true performance so before blowing tons of money in R&D and increased die size meaning higher production costs they would rather just wait it out, while giving our wallets a good shake down for more money .

[vanished]

3 hours ago, Dawson Wehage said:

What would be the point of the i7 if there is hyperthreading, unless the i7 has 6 cores and 12 threads. Then it makes sense to hyperthread.

 

2 hours ago, VagabondWraith said:

I don't believe these HT i5 rumors one iota. Why would Intel cut into the i7 like that? It would be company suicide.

 

It would be like NVidia releasing a 1080 Ti 30 days after the TITAN. Would totally be an asinine decision.

 

Everyone is saying this new chip would kill the i7 line and I just don't understand where that reasoning is coming from.  Seems to me, it would just be an i7, in everything but name.