Intel's responses to AMD Ryzen with i7 7740K and i5 7640K

[rhavimarques]

On 2/6/2017 at 10:16 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

WHAT!? ( ಥـْـِـِـِـْಥ)  That's an i7!  Please, Intel, for the love of god, don't do this...

did you just assume its product line?!?

[MorganO]

15 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Wouldn't want to answer that question until reviews.

based on information from AMD?

[leadeater]

Just now, KOMTechAndGaming said:

based on information from AMD?

With the amount of parts that would need replacing and the cost of them combined with the performance increase it might not be that worth it, getting a better GPU(s) would be a far better performance/$ increase.

 

However there are other nice things that come with the upgrade like NVMe boot support and M.2 slots.

 

Getting a used 4930K/4960X and a new GPU would likely be the most cost effective upgrade if that is a concern.

[MorganO]

Just now, leadeater said:

With the amount of parts that would need replacing and the cost of them combined with the performance increase it might not be that worth it, getting a better GPU(s) would be a far better performance/$ increase.

 

However there are other nice things that come with the upgrade like NVMe boot support and M.2 slots.

 

Getting a used 4930K/4960X and a new GPU would likely be the most cost effective upgrade if that is a concern.

looking at getting a new cpu/mobo/ram anyway, 

and 4930k's arent particularly cheap anyway

 

[MorganO]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

With the amount of parts that would need replacing and the cost of them combined with the performance increase it might not be that worth it, getting a better GPU(s) would be a far better performance/$ increase.

 

However there are other nice things that come with the upgrade like NVMe boot support and M.2 slots.

 

Getting a used 4930K/4960X and a new GPU would likely be the most cost effective upgrade if that is a concern.

this would be the 1800x build https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/DpXgKZ

the 6850k build: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/JTQ32R 

 

i save £164.11 with the amd system

[Valentyn]

10 minutes ago, KOMTechAndGaming said:

this would be the 1800x build https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/DpXgKZ

the 6850k build: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/JTQ32R 

 

i save £164.11 with the amd system

If I were you I'd wait for in-depth reviews, and then see if you can possibly save even more money with a cheaper motherboard or 1700/X setup.
If they clock really well, and easily on a cheaper X370 board you could save more, and get the top performance anyway.
 

Had I not jumped on X99 when it launched I'd be getting an AMD system.

The AMD Motherboards alone cost significantly cheaper; especially in regards to the top end ones.
The top most expensive AMD x370 board vs top X99 ones if you want all the bells and whistles.

[MorganO]

8 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

If I were you I'd wait for in-depth reviews, and then see if you can possibly save even more money with a cheaper motherboard or 1700/X setup.
If they clock really well, and easily on a cheaper X370 board you could save more, and get the top performance anyway.
 

Had I not jumped on X99 when it launched I'd be getting an AMD system.

The AMD Motherboards alone cost significantly cheaper; especially in regards to the top end ones.
The top most expensive AMD x370 board vs top X99 ones if you want all the bells and whistles.

the crosshair mobo is the only mobo that has am3 mounting slots, if i had to choose any other mobo , the money i save would decrease as id need a new cooler :/, im definitatley waitng for review but i want the top end chip tbh, id  probably get x99 deluxe 2 as detailed in the each build i have, but id have to wait a few months still to have the available funds to do so 

[zMeul]

1 hour ago, KOMTechAndGaming said:

and what is said point?

 

x99 cpus have 28/40 pcie3.0 lanes FROM the cpu, and the chipset provides 8 pcie 2.0 lanes.

not exactly outdated mate

here we go again, it was the X99 chipset not the CPU .. go back to what I was, from the beginning

please ..

[zMeul]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8557/x99-motherboard-roundup-asus-x99-deluxe-gigabyte-x99-ud7-ud5-asrock-x99-ws-msi-x99s-sli-plus-intel-haswell-e

 

Also be mindful not all motherboard use the same PCIe lane configurations.

if you actually looked at the block diagram for the MSI mobo, it uses switches

 

Quote

For motherboard manufacturers, this gives several options. If the chipset is using Flex-IO which we believe it is (we are still awaiting confirmation), then the amount of SATA 6 Gbps/USB 3.0/PCIe 2.0 lanes is slightly flexible similar to Z97. By providing 10 possible SATA 6 Gbps ports (6+4 of RAID/non-RAID), the motherboard manufacturer could implement a 4+4 arrangement to give more PCIe lanes, or shift around the PCIe lanes in that 4+4 to give a full six USB 3.0 ports. 

come on mate, do we have to keep doing this all day?

[leadeater]

17 minutes ago, zMeul said:

if you actually looked at the block diagram for the MSI mobo, it uses switches

 

 

come on mate, do we have to keep doing this all day?

Switch != PLX

[Valentyn]

25 minutes ago, zMeul said:

if you actually looked at the block diagram for the MSI mobo, it uses switches

 

come on mate, do we have to keep doing this all day?

Seriously, look hwo's talking. He even stated: " Also be mindful not all motherboard use the same PCIe lane configurations. "

Even then, that's not PLX chip as you were stating X99 uses. The majority do not.

Here's what Anandtech say about that motherboard.

Quote

Here, four way GPU support is given by x8/x8/x16/x8, as it will be with most X99 motherboards, but the fourth PCIe slot can switch between a PCIe 3.0 x8 slot or a PCIe 3.0 x4 M.2 slot. This means that if the M.2 slot is used in PCIe 3.0 x4 mode, only 3x graphics can be used. But, to double up some potential confusion, the system can use M.2 slot in PCIe 2.0 x2 mode from the chipset, allowing four-way GPU configurations again.

 

That "switch" depends on your CPU ( PCIe Lanes up to 40 ), and what configuration of SLI/Xfire you're using where it simply splits the bandwidth between the slots.
 

Quote

In the MSI chipset diagram above, we see that in order to get x8/x8/x16/x8, an additional switch is used such that one of the x16 can be split into x8/x8.

If you use Quad SLI you need the 40 lane CPU to support it; not once is a PLX chip used to provide extra PCIe Gen 3 lanes. Especially since in 3-Way SLI  where they run at x8/x8/x16; or you're limited to x8/x8/x8 if you have a 24 lane CPU.
 

If a PLX chip was use to provide more lanes, the 28 lane CPU ( 5820K ) would be capable of 4-way SLI on these motherboards; but it's not.

 

Quote

The second issue to arise from PCIe lane allocation derives from the CPUs themselves. While some X99 motherboards will support Xeons, all the LGA2011-3 oriented CPUs will feature 40 PCIe 3.0 lanes except the Core i7-5820K, which will only support 28. As a result, instead of x16/x16 gaming for two-way GPUs, 5820K users will have x16/x8. As we tested in our CPU review of the Haswell-E consumer processors, for two-way SLI gaming at 1080p, this has almost zero effect on actual frame rates. The 5820K is also limited in three-way GPU gaming, offering x8/x8/x8 rather than x16/x16/x8, and cannot be used for four-way SLI gaming without the addition of a PLX chip. On the motherboard side, this means that manufacturers have to cater for both 28 PCIe lane processors and 40 PCIe lane ones as well.

 

 

[MorganO]

28 minutes ago, zMeul said:

here we go again, it was the X99 chipset not the CPU .. go back to what I was, from the beginning

please ..

and look what i said in the last part, your argument is saying x99 is outdated but its not , just becuase it (x99 chipset) offers pcie 2.0 lanes means jack shit mate

[leadeater]

21 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

-snip-

 

Funny how the PCIe lanes in the box are also switched, represented by 'or'. The other 24 lanes are likely also switched as that is the nature of PCIe's serial communication, it's point-to-point so if you need to move a lane between slots or devices you have to switch it, there is no other way to do it.

 

A lot of the issue here is that on the standard desktop side the chipset plays such a huge part of the system and is critical to almost every feature, however on the HEDT and server side the chipset plays a tiny part and expansion cards are expected to be added giving the features you specifically need. In these systems they are totally reliant on the CPU, SoC on the motherboard (SAS controllers/10Gb NICs etc) and expansion cards.

 

This is why the two platforms are not that comparable and it's a mistake to try and do so. The desktop chipset suffers greatly due to age but the HEDT chipset is really only there as to not waste very valuable CPU PCIe lanes for things like USB and SATA, not that you don't already know this. The difference between the X58, X79 and X99 chipsets is proof of how little it actually matters.

 

37 minutes ago, KOMTechAndGaming said:

and look what i said in the last part, your argument is saying x99 is outdated but its not , just becuase it (x99 chipset) offers pcie 2.0 lanes means jack shit mate

Just remember to keep it civil, passing on information and education doesn't really work if it's not presented in a manner one is prepared to receive.

[MorganO]

Just now, leadeater said:

-snip-

'jack shit' is a saying for absolutley nothing

[leadeater]

Just now, KOMTechAndGaming said:

'jack shit' is a saying for absolutley nothing

Yea I know, more of a preemptive reminder before I go to sleep .

[MorganO]

Just now, leadeater said:

Yea I know, more of a preemptive reminder before I go to sleep .

ah ok :),. have a good sleep

[Godlygamer23]

4 hours ago, zMeul said:

the discussion was about the chipset, X99, not the CPUs

No, it originally started out about the platform, which as far as I'm concerned should include its supported CPUs. 

[zMeul]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Switch != PLX

similar technology 

ones are LPX others are Flex IO

[zMeul]

2 hours ago, Valentyn said:

-

matey, I strongly suggest you do your research before spewing bull

 

PLX chips do not, I repeat .. do not create PCIe lanes from another dimension, they aggregate the PCIe lanes from the CPU with PCH lanes

[Jahramika]

On 2/6/2017 at 7:17 PM, Wolther said:

7640k has lower clock speed, same thread and core count, less cache. But higher TDP than 7700k. Why? 

So AMD is not a better value

[zMeul]

2 hours ago, KOMTechAndGaming said:

and look what i said in the last part, your argument is saying x99 is outdated but its not , just becuase it (x99 chipset) offers pcie 2.0 lanes means jack shit mate

it means that it can't use Intel Optane

that's jack shit I suppose, but let's ask Intel .. shall we?!

 

---

 

and this is the last thing I post on this topic

[LucasDerpYT]

On 2/6/2017 at 6:45 PM, AresKrieger said:

Just make i9s with 6 cores intel, thus people will not be confused and you can simply lower i7 pricing accordingly, just saying

Where would that leave the numbers? The i7s already have the 900

[MorganO]

8 minutes ago, zMeul said:

it means that it can't use Intel Optane

that's jack shit I suppose, but let's ask Intel .. shall we?!

 

---

 

and this is the last thing I post on this topic

intel optane came out after x99 soooo

[Valentyn]

12 minutes ago, KOMTechAndGaming said:

intel optane came out after x99 soooo

Better burn your board if you have a Z170 or 6700K. It can't use Optane either. Both of those are now Obsolete and useless; should be replaced to use a brand new Proprietary tech right away.

Also don't bother with Ryzen, it won't be able to use Optane either..it's completely useless before it even launched! 

[MorganO]

49 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Better burn your board if you have a Z170 or 6700K. It can't use Optane either. Both of those are now Obsolete and useless; should be replaced to use a brand new Proprietary tech right away.

Also don't bother with Ryzen, it won't be able to use Optane either..it's completely useless before it even launched! 

just about what i was going to say