Intel's responses to AMD Ryzen with i7 7740K and i5 7640K

[mach]

6 hours ago, VagabondWraith said:

Rip 7700k owners.

Guess who will be angrier...

The people who just bought a normal (non-k) i7...

Intel is basically going "Here we have a chip which is better than your middle-high end cpu in every single way, including higher base clock, fully unlocked, but still cheaper! haha you suckers!"

 

Yes I am one of them. If intel is doing it I'm switching to red team. At least judging by their cpu releasing speed I won't be fucked a few months after buying their chip.

[dizmo]

I'm not overly surprised, but it's definitely welcome.

I find it odd they chose 40 to go with and not 60. Though I imagine they have their own internal coding structure that makes sense to them. Bring on the gaming focused i5s! I find the i7 completely pointless though. 100mhz? What are they going to charge for that?

 

7 hours ago, sirtoby said:

I really hope that that is isn't going to turn out to be true. Intel is throwing their very easy naming scheme out of the window at the moment. 

Pentiums suddenly have hyper threading and render the i3's basically useless. If they now add an i5 with hyper threading then they have fucked their naming scheme completely. 

This is almost AMD level confusing

 I don't see how it completely screws up their naming scheme. The names are the same. We have i7s with 6 cores. That didn't screw up anything, did it?

7 hours ago, Abyssal Radon said:

I really hope AMD gets back on their feet with Ryzen. Also, I was suspecting something like this would happen and doesn't surprise me at all. Thanks a lot Intel for pulling the rug from AMD at the last minute. This feels like an overall fuck you and we still will have a better product than you to AMD...

I don't think they're really pulling the rug out from underneath them. If they have a better product, they have a better product. Plain and simple. Naturally they're going to try and maintain their market share, that's business. I think AMD will eek out slightly better pricing, both with the chip and more-so the motherboard. Hopefully they come out with some solid mITX offerings, and low wattage chips *crosses fingers*

7 hours ago, WereCat said:

6-core with no HT

I'd actually be really interested to see what something like that would perform like. I bet it'd kick ass.

6 hours ago, tmcclelland455 said:

The fuck is the point of a Hyper-Threaded i5. It makes the i7 completely pointless unless something benefits massively from more cache.

The article suggested perhaps gimping it in certain ways, much like the Pentium vs i3.

Not sure how getting rid of AVX affects things though.

[Brehohn]

So it took for AMD to release competitive hardware for Intel to actually care about what the consumers want? Let's be honest here. They charged the shit out of a 4c/8t i7 for way too long. Hell, they used to be $250 during Sandybridge right? This is why I'm hoping AMD is cheaper alternative for the same performance than Intel. Tired of paying for overpriced hardware. 

[Deli]

7 hours ago, Carclis said:

Being durable and performing well are completely different things. If someone purchases a "k" series chip they're obviously pretty likely to have some interest in overclocking and there's an even better chance that they will be limited by thermals as a result of the lower performance paste. How about Intel gives consumers the option to replace the paste between the IHS and die without voiding their warranty for trying to get the performance they should have received?

Remove the IHS without voiding the warranty?I won't do that if I were Intel. Just look at the CPU sub forum.

 

I saw many times idiots complaining their non-K i5 overheating with the stock coolers. People tell them to remount the coolers. "I remount the cooler, but the temp still reach 100C." Then a few days later, those guys would come back and say,"I remount the cooler the fifth time. And finally the temp is good." You know what? Because those idiots finally manage to push all four pins properly into the slots. For something so fool prove as the Intel stock cooler. There are people manage to screw up the installation.

 

The die is very fragile. Intel would be crazy to let people messing with the die and the IHS while keeping the warranty.

[That Norwegian Guy]

10 hours ago, TheRandomness said:

i5... hyperthreading? How interesting. 

I knew it, Intel are giving up on their old structure for their next generation. The "identity" of i3, i5, i7 naming scheme thus doesn't matter anymore.

 

2018: 6-core and 8-core consumer chips from Intel, I guarantee it. AT LAST.

[vorticalbox]

and this is why we need amd to succeed, stop intel sitting on its arse.

[patrickjp93]

1 hour ago, Brehohn said:

So it took for AMD to release competitive hardware for Intel to actually care about what the consumers want? Let's be honest here. They charged the shit out of a 4c/8t i7 for way too long. Hell, they used to be $250 during Sandybridge right? This is why I'm hoping AMD is cheaper alternative for the same performance than Intel. Tired of paying for overpriced hardware. 

It's not overpriced if it sells - Microeconomics 101.

 

And Intel has been giving consumers what they want: performance. The problem with you is you think cores are everything. Nothing could be farther from the truth, especially where games are concerned, if only the industry would wake up to what's existed for 10 years...

 

10 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

and this is why we need amd to succeed, stop intel sitting on its arse.

Intel has been the one driving performance innovation. The problem is the games market is a good 10 years behind or more when it comes to the instruction sets and performance available. I have a program on my blog here comparing industry code from UE 4 to a version coded to take advantage of AVX. 1 core to 1 core it's a 10x speedup, and that's just on my MacBook Pro that for all I know might be thermal throttling every few milliseconds to stay in TDP (the fan never spins up, but idk).

 

You can't blame Intel for the choices of poorly trained programmers in an industry built to have high turnover and low (programmer) talent. There aren't enough performance engineers on the CPU side.

[patrickjp93]

12 minutes ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

I knew it, Intel are giving up on their old structure for their next generation. The "identity" of i3, i5, i7 naming scheme thus doesn't matter anymore.

 

2018: 6-core and 8-core consumer chips from Intel, I guarantee it. AT LAST.

2017* You forget Coffee Lake in Q4.

[LabRat]

10 hours ago, Deli said:

For the 1001 th time. The TIM that Intel uses is good stuff. If you can find some better thermal paste that can withstand as much heat cycles and years of use, you win.

bet there have been many people on the internet that have de-lidded those cpu's and replaced the TiM and got much lower temps........ maybe you should look into that. Then ask yourself WHY, after doing that once before and learning their lesson, and then going back and doing it again...??? by design? or sheer stupidity? maybe it's a cheap way to give a higher clocked cpu in the next gen without doing any work to make it happen.

[patrickjp93]

6 minutes ago, LabRat said:

bet there have been many people on the internet that have de-lidded those cpu's and replaced the TiM and got much lower temps........ maybe you should look into that. Then ask yourself WHY, after doing that once before and learning their lesson, and then going back and doing it again...??? by design? or sheer stupidity? maybe it's a cheap way to give a higher clocked cpu in the next gen without doing any work to make it happen.

It's the glue causing high spacing between the die and IHS. Please actually read the facts behind the headlines instead of running your mouth. If you remove the glue and use the same TIM you also tend to wind up with a 15-20* reduction.

[Deli]

15 minutes ago, LabRat said:

bet there have been many people on the internet that have de-lidded those cpu's and replaced the TiM and got much lower temps........ maybe you should look into that. Then ask yourself WHY, after doing that once before and learning their lesson, and then going back and doing it again...??? by design? or sheer stupidity? maybe it's a cheap way to give a higher clocked cpu in the next gen without doing any work to make it happen.

I have delidded my 4790K also. But CLU or whatever paste we use, will not last ten years. For some enthusiasts to redo the thermal paste of their CPU every year may not be a big deal. But you can't expect every 7600K and 7700K owners are happy to go through this. Many people just want to use their PCs without constantly messing with the haedwares.

[deviant88]

9 hours ago, TheRandomness said:

i5... hyperthreading? How interesting. 

Just FYI, all intel cpu's that are from same slice of wafer or binned, i7 non extreme, i5 ,i3 , pentiums and maybe even celerons, can run hyperthreading if intel decided to switch it on inside the cpu. The only reason they dont is either the chip is broken in that regard or most commonly intel has no competition so they turn it off and sell as dual/quad core without HT for less performance to convince people to buy i7's with HT, just because they can.

[JoostinOnline]

11 hours ago, kirashi said:

Alas, binning is not a new thing, and even Linus has covered this process from way back in his NCIX days, but jeeze this is going a little bit too far.

Warning: Mad Props pun imminent. Prepare to cringe.

 

Holy shit, is he 15?

[Lays]

11 hours ago, LabRat said:

I know ryzen is fully supported in W7 so that's where I'm heading.

Skylake and Kaby fully support windows 7, all you have to do is use Asrock or ASUS's tool on your ISO.

[patrickjp93]

2 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

Holy shit, is he 15?

No, but he is emaciated...

[JoostinOnline]

15 minutes ago, Lays said:

Skylake and Kaby fully support windows 7, all you have to do is use Asrock or ASUS's tool on your ISO.

Microsoft is killing support for Skylake users on Windows 7 though.  You won't get any security updates.  I can't remember what the deadline is.

 

Edit: July 2017 http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-7-wont-work-intels-current-next-gen-cpus/

[samcool55]

Well, if they are going to throw HT on random cpu's i hope they come up with a better naming scheme because the one they used for years made sense and was easy to understand.

 

But now they are starting to make it confusing so i hope they do something about it.

[JoostinOnline]

1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

No, but he is emaciated...

It's weird that he looks weaker then, since he isn't even a man now.

[Lays]

1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

Microsoft is killing support for Skylake on Windows 7 though.  You won't get any security updates.  I can't remember what the deadline is.

Aren't they already killing security updates for 7 fairly soon? I've never had any security problems on my systems before, so I can't say it'd be a big deal losing those updates.

[JoostinOnline]

1 minute ago, samcool55 said:

Well, if they are going to throw HT on random cpu's i hope they come up with a better naming scheme because the one they used for years made sense and was easy to understand.

 

But now they are starting to make it confusing so i hope they do something about it.

Pentium 5, i4, i6, i8

[patrickjp93]

1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

Microsoft is killing support for Skylake on Windows 7 though.  You won't get any security updates.  I can't remember what the deadline is.

... Security updates for the CPU...from Microsoft... Please go sit in a corner and think more carefully about that. The only way for a CPU to be updated is if Intel itself injects such an update into a bios update for motherboards. The OS cannot touch any of the caches necessary to overwrite anything in the CPU microcode controls.

[JoostinOnline]

3 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

... Security updates for the CPU...from Microsoft... Please go sit in a corner and think more carefully about that. The only way for a CPU to be updated is if Intel itself injects such an update into a bios update for motherboards. The OS cannot touch any of the caches necessary to overwrite anything in the CPU microcode controls.

I didn't say updates for the CPU itself

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-7-wont-work-intels-current-next-gen-cpus/

[samcool55]

1 minute ago, JoostinOnline said:

Pentium 5, i4, i6, i8

That's an option, but then again they have to watch out they don't get too many levels and skews which is imo pointless anyway because AMD has unlocked cpu's everywhere.

Maybe they should use iX and the X means the amount of cores. And if it has HT it should say a + at the end of the number thingy. Or whatever i dunno

 

There are good options for it but intel isn't always great in naming their stuff properly.

[JoostinOnline]

6 minutes ago, Lays said:

Aren't they already killing security updates for 7 fairly soon? I've never had any security problems on my systems before, so I can't say it'd be a big deal losing those updates.

For pre-Skylake, updates last till 2020.  I honestly have no idea why Microsoft is getting involved in this.

 

[patrickjp93]

3 minutes ago, JoostinOnline said:

I didn't say updates for the CPU itself

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/windows-7-wont-work-intels-current-next-gen-cpus/

You said security updates specific to Skylake, which would require they be doing something directly to the CPU since security updates for the OS would be architecture-agnostic anyway.