Microsoft allows you to buy the Surface Pro 4 SANS Surface Pen for a new lower price tag!

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

I fully understand why Microsoft would do it -- it makes the product cheaper and people often don't think about additional costs (like accessories). 

 

But I still don't understand why anyone would buy a Surface and not use the pen. As far as I'm concerned, it offers a mediocre laptop and a mediocre tablet experience. The scaling makes using the touch screen a royal pain, and Windows really isn't a great touch OS. And the type cover sucks compared to a normal laptop keyboard. Not to mention that you can't just sit it comfortably on your lap like you would a normal laptop -- it always feels a bit precarious. 

Asides from scaling, I actually disagree with the your feelings of it as a tablet.

 

While I consider Windows 8.1 to be the better tablet OS, Windows 10 in tablet mode is a good overall experience. I also prefer the Type Cover over any laptop keyboard I've used on machines of both similar spec, and similar cost.

[Mr.Meerkat]

They've been doing this in the UK since Black Friday or something...

I still remembered how close I was to shelling £450~ on Amazon on Black Friday for a 128/4GB m3 surface pro 4  

[suicidalfranco]

the only thing a surface is good for

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

the only thing a surface is good for

That is an abomination. No one should be using those garbage pen loops.

 

Also disagree with running Ubuntu on Surface hardware.

[GoodBytes]

7 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

the only thing a surface is good for

 

So then why didn't you buy the Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition instead. You could have gotten a cheaper and better system, runs Ubuntu (comes with it), and uses hardware with proper Linux drivers.

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

So then why didn't you buy the Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition instead. You could have gotten a cheaper and better system, runs Ubuntu (comes with it), and uses hardware with proper Linux drivers.

cause i can't trash microsoft if i buy a non microsoft product, duh. Logic guys, logic.

[suicidalfranco]

3 hours ago, Drak3 said:

That is an abomination. No one should be using those garbage pen loops.

 

Also disagree with running Ubuntu on Surface hardware.

soooooo.... antergos?

[Mooshi]

Surface pro without the pen is like ordering a burger without the bun, who does that? Goes from a tool of art to a generic tablet. 

[Bleedingyamato]

On February 3, 2017 at 0:55 PM, Mr.Meerkat said:

They've been doing this in the UK since Black Friday or something...

I still remembered how close I was to shelling £450~ on Amazon on Black Friday for a 128/4GB m3 surface pro 4  

Is an M3 (what is that anyway?) and only 4GB of RAM worth paying for?

 

I have no idea if that's a decent CPU for what you could use a surface pro for but the low amount of RAM also worries me.  

 

On February 3, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Drak3 said:

That is an abomination. No one should be using those garbage pen loops.

 

Also disagree with running Ubuntu on Surface hardware.

What's wrong with running a version of Linux on it?    Would it be buggy or something?

 

1 hour ago, Mooshi said:

Surface pro without the pen is like ordering a burger without the bun, who does that? Goes from a tool of art to a generic tablet. 

Are there cheaper W10 tablets with comparable specs to a surface?  

 

I'd like a Windows tablet to complement my iPad but a surface is a bit pricey if I want an i CPU and at least 8GB of RAM.  

 

I could get a laptop to do that for way less than what a surface would cost but then it wouldn't be a tablet..

[Drak3]

7 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

What's wrong with running a version of Linux on it?    Would it be buggy or something?

Not necessarily, but it'd be a waste of money. The Surface lineup is designed specifically for Windows, and the versions of Windows that run on the Surface lineup are made specifically for the hardware.

 

One could get an equally capable, similarly spec'd, 2-in-1 for less.

 

However, I am aware that Ubuntu had issues with the Type Cover and Bluetooth (meaning the Surface Pen is practically useless) on the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book for quite some time. I think both issues are fixed, not sure though.

[Kick]

On 2/3/2017 at 8:32 AM, goodtofufriday said:

To be fair, i used the pro keyboard quite a bit until i bought the stationary dock.

 

Yo, sorry to be a bother, but is that the Surface Dock or something else? It doesn't look like the Surface Dock from Microsoft (https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Microsoft-Surface-Dock/productID.325725200) but I haven't seen any other options for the Surface Pro 4. I would prefer a dock like the one you've pictured, where can I buy it/what is it called?

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, Kick said:

Yo, sorry to be a bother, but is that the Surface Dock or something else? It doesn't look like the Surface Dock from Microsoft (https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Microsoft-Surface-Dock/productID.325725200) but I haven't seen any other options for the Surface Pro 4. I would prefer a dock like the one you've pictured, where can I buy it/what is it called?

That's the Surface Pro 3 docking station.

 

Link:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4A04TS1727&cm_re=Surface_Pro_3_dock-_-2RC-001G-00002-_-Product

[Bleedingyamato]

17 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Not necessarily, but it'd be a waste of money. The Surface lineup is designed specifically for Windows, and the versions of Windows that run on the Surface lineup are made specifically for the hardware.

 

One could get an equally capable, similarly spec'd, 2-in-1 for less.

 

However, I am aware that Ubuntu had issues with the Type Cover and Bluetooth (meaning the Surface Pen is practically useless) on the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book for quite some time. I think both issues are fixed, not sure though.

Would you have a few of those similar spec 2 in 1s you could suggest?

 

I'm considering getting a W10 tablet or similar device but idk what is worth considering vs stuff that's basically cheap crap.

 

What does the pen use Bluetooth for?

[Drak3]

17 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Would you have a few of those similar spec 2 in 1s you could suggest?

 

I'm considering getting a W10 tablet or similar device but idk what is worth considering vs stuff that's basically cheap crap.

 

What does the pen use Bluetooth for?

Bluetooth is used for enhanced tracking/pressure sensitivity, and the pen has 2 buttons on it. It still can be used, but it's just like having a fine point passive stylus.

Don't have names of those 2-in-1s on top of my head. Although a look through newegg would offer up a few good ones.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Drak3
Mislead as to the Surface Pen's design

[Kick]

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

That's the Surface Pro 3 docking station.

 

Link:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA4A04TS1727&cm_re=Surface_Pro_3_dock-_-2RC-001G-00002-_-Product

Thank you! I did a quick search and found it can work with a Surface Pro 4 if I get an adapter (https://www.microsoft.com/surface/en-us/support/hardware-and-drivers/using-docking-station-adapter). I like the 3 dock much better than the 4, thanks again! 

 

Oh and to comment on the main topic, I like that they have the option to buy without the pen. I bought a refurb and it came with the pen...which I have since misplaced. Derp.

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Bluetooth is used for enhanced tracking/pressure sensitivity, and the pen has 2 buttons on it. It still can be used, but it's just like having a fine point passive stylus.

Don't have names of those 2-in-1s on top of my head. Although a look through newegg would offer up a few good ones.

Incorrect. Bluetooth is used for the pen for the button/earser that open OneNote or Ink Workplace in Windows 10 or some other action that you can define.

The pen, in itself does not use Bluetooth. It uses a digitizer which is always on. If you open the pen, you will notice 2 set of batteries. One for the button/eraser, and the other for the pen itself. You can remove the battery for the eraser/button, and everything will work, beside the eraser/button, but the eraser functionality would still work (For those confused: in the latest Surface pen, the eraser at the top of the pen erases like a normal pen, and  is also a bluetooth button which can trigger things on your system)

 

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

Incorrect. Bluetooth is used for the pen for the button/earser that open OneNote or Ink Workplace in Windows 10 or some other action that you can define.

The pen, in itself does not use Bluetooth. It uses a digitizer which is always on. If you open the pen, you will notice 2 set of batteries. One for the button/eraser, and the other for the pen itself. You can remove the battery for the eraser/button, and everything will work, beside the eraser/button, but the eraser functionality would still work (For those confused: in the latest Surface pen, the eraser at the top of the pen erases like a normal pen, and  is also a bluetooth button which can trigger things on your system)

 

Is it? What I've said was what I was told by one of the more technically inclined employees at Microsoft's kiosk at the Boise Towne Square.

I've had a few times where I needed to turn Bluetooth off, and apps that support pressure sensitivity no longer registered pressure for the duration BT was off.

[GoodBytes]

38 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

I'm considering getting a W10 tablet or similar device but idk what is worth considering vs stuff that's basically cheap crap.

Surface line system are definitely expensive. You have the Microsoft tax on it. But it is like buying a fancy car, or a Nvidia Titan.

It is a "Halo" product, a premium product. It doesn't want to be price competitive. The Surface 3 (non-Pro, that is) tried that, but it didn't do too well.. while still a nice system, it didn't cut at the right place, and still tried to be a premium product, which resulted in system that is definitely nice to look at, just as good pen experience as the Pro 3 at the time, but specs wise and price was not very interesting. It didn't sell well. Hence, why there is no Surface 4. Will Microsoft try again in the future? Maybe, but for now, it is not sold.

 

The Surface Pro line is powered (with the exception of the lowest end model), with a Core i5 or i7 (both dual cores) U series CPUs. Which are very powerful chip put inside in such small package, and handles the heat produces by the CPU very nicely with no fan noise most of the time unless you push the system (heck, you have laptops with U series CPUs, much larger, with a always ON fan! I am looking at you Lenovo.. how crazy is that!), and even then it isn't very loud when it spins. A lot of heavy engineering went into the cooling system of the device. You also have this unique aspect ratio where you have a lot of height, high resolution, and of course high build quality.

 

Beside Wacom Windows powered tablet, the rest of the market aims in making an affordable option. HP, for example has a very nice system similar to the Surface Pro, the HP Elite x2. Sadly, they are pretty much powered by an Intel Core M CPU or Atom. Depending on what you do a Core M can be a fine choice.  They do cost less, and many comes with a keyboard on top of that, The pen isn't as good either, but again, it is cheaper.

 

 

[GoodBytes]

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Is it? What I've said was what I was told by one of the more technically inclined employees at Microsoft's kiosk at the Boise Towne Square.

I've had a few times where I needed to turn Bluetooth off, and apps that support pressure sensitivity no longer registered pressure for the duration BT was off.

interesting... I don't see any of such information. So I'll leave it as that then. I have a Surface Pro 3 with a Pro 3 pen, so I can't test/confirm what you are saying. Bluetooth is off on my system, if you wonder.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

interesting... I don't see any of such information. So I'll leave it as that then. I have a Surface Pro 3 with a Pro 3 pen, so I can't test/confirm what you are saying. Bluetooth is off on my system, if you wonder.

Not finding any official specifics on it either. There is a reddit link claiming that BT is really just driving the buttons, but it's something to take with a small grain of salt, as it can be wrong and no one noticed (or cares).

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/42kxr4/you_dont_need_bluetooth_to_be_on_to_use_your/

 

It'd appear my issues might have to do with some minor firmware woes I've had a while back (if the link is true), and just a coincidence that they lined up with the claims of someone that really should know this or specify that they're only running on speculation.

[Teddy07]

On 3.2.2017 at 1:34 PM, tlink said:

i hate microsoft for not including the keyboard. how many people will buy one without such an essential accessory? 

WTF

I just recently checked the price here in Germany and thought the keyboard was of course included. I didnt even cross my mind that it isnt for such a huge price point.

[goodtofufriday]

57 minutes ago, Kick said:

Yo, sorry to be a bother, but is that the Surface Dock or something else? It doesn't look like the Surface Dock from Microsoft (https://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msusa/en_US/pdp/Microsoft-Surface-Dock/productID.325725200) but I haven't seen any other options for the Surface Pro 4. I would prefer a dock like the one you've pictured, where can I buy it/what is it called?

Its the surface pro 3 dock. It works on the pro 4 fine but sits weird. Microsoft sells an adapter plate so that the pro 4 sits right. 

Its great. 

 

Edit -  seems you already figured that out lol. 

[GoodBytes]

17 minutes ago, Teddy07 said:

WTF

I just recently checked the price here in Germany and thought the keyboard was of course included. I didnt even cross my mind that it isnt for such a huge price point.

Yup, we all get hit by this. Oh, if you are a student, you get 10% off on nearly everything on Microsoft online store (which has free shipping and free return shipping, if you didn't know.. at least in US and Canada), Just go to the Student section of the site. Items on specials don't usually have the student discount, though.

 

That said, I would wait until March/April. Leaks and hint indicates a hardware to be announced soon.. .So it would be a Surface Book 2, or Surface Pro 5, or maybe a Surface 4 non-Pro, who knows.

[AlTech]

39 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

interesting... I don't see any of such information. So I'll leave it as that then. I have a Surface Pro 3 with a Pro 3 pen, so I can't test/confirm what you are saying. Bluetooth is off on my system, if you wonder.

my Pro 4 pen works all the time with Bluetooth disabled.

[AlTech]

11 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Yup, we all get hit by this. Oh, if you are a student, you get 10% off on nearly everything on Microsoft online store (which has free shipping and free return shipping, if you didn't know.. at least in US and Canada), Just go to the Student section of the site. Items on specials don't usually have the student discount, though.

 

I managed to buy my Pro 4 type cover at almost 90% off lol .