RyZen will get official Windows 7 support

[Urishima]

1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Decaf coffee.

Whoa there, buddy. No need to be drastic.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Urishima said:

Whoa there, buddy. No need to be drastic.

You're right, I'm just insulting garbage at this point.

[Delicieuxz]

1 hour ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Windows 7 IS VISTA. It is nigh identical to Vista on the kernel level, and 8 through 10 are notable and significant departures from the vista/7 kernel (with 10 sharing as similar a kernel to 8.1 as 7 does to Vista).

I'm aware of that. It's Vista's lack of modern hardware and driver support that makes it more different than Windows 7 and onwards.

 

Quote

Allowing people the option to buy new hardware and run out of date, terribly insecure, and non-supported platforms is the same crap that cost us 5+ extra years of 32 bit games (2011 games requiring custom script extenders when the first 64 bit consumer processors came out in 2003).

You're not getting the point that Windows 10 is nearly the same OS than Windows 7, and so when people design for Windows 10, they're pretty much also designing for Windows 7, and vice versa. There is nothing being held back by continued development for Windows 7.

 

And with all the problems there have been with Windows 10 updates since its release, a person is likely to be far more secure by using Windows 7 right now than by using Windows 10.

[Drak3]

8 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

There is nothing being held back by continued development for Windows 7.

Not entirely. It takes man hours to develop and validate for both 7 and 10, due to their minor differences. Those man hours could be spent polishing for just one further.

 

However, it's the minor differences that keep people from 10, and I agree that both could and should be supported for a little while longer.

[captain cactus]

So Ryzen it is then. Good, because I hate W10 with a passion. 

[Fetzie]

9 hours ago, JoaoPRSousa said:

 

I've already been told it's going to be the other way around, with APUs coming first. FFS @chaozbandit 

I don't even know. I'll just wait and see.

The cpus will release first in a few weeks time. This was confirmed at their q4 stakeholders meeting last week. Apus are expected around the beginning of q3.

[vanished]

1 hour ago, SCHISCHKA said:

Unfortunately if you try to research online you get quite a bit of FUD and rubbish "research" by the likes of the BSA. I worked in anti-piracy for a few years and I'm happy to chat when I'm not busy. If you read the license agreements (who does that?) the product key is only one component of a license. A license is quite simply a contract. A key is a way to pass their DRM; it gives you the technical ability to use the software but does not give you the legal right. You have staff members that would have worked in sales and will know how crappy the margins are on OEM and retail software

I suppose that makes sense.  Never thought to make that distinction.  But... how does this relate back to the XP licenses?

 

1 hour ago, SCHISCHKA said:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-nz/help/17140/general-lifecycle-policy-questions

go to the section regarding the difference between mainstream and extended support. Unless you are a MS partner, software developer, or some special relationship to MS engineers, the mainstream support is unlikely to be relevant to you. Extended support with security updates is all a consumer needs to be concerned with. Whether your drivers will be supported isn't up to microsoft but third parties. 

I know they're different and I know the Extended date hasn't yet passed, but it's coming  

[Snooli]

For some reason I don't care about Win7 support...

 

...walks away to recompile kernel

[SCHISCHKA]

13 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

I suppose that makes sense.  Never thought to make that distinction.  But... how does this relate back to the XP licenses?

 

XP? they stopped selling those ages ago. Id be surprised if anyone still had legit copies, they would've been sold out after the consumer Vista rejection. That other post where they said they can get any license for $20; that is too cheap to be legit especially if they are buying something years after end of sale. They might be re-selling their VL keys which is breaking their contract and a pretty dumb move unless you are based in a country where MS cannot be bothered to touch you. In saying that they did hire police in thailand a decade ago to go around the internet cafes armed with assault rifles

[vanished]

24 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

XP? they stopped selling those ages ago. Id be surprised if anyone still had legit copies, they would've been sold out after the consumer Vista rejection. That other post where they said they can get any license for $20; that is too cheap to be legit especially if they are buying something years after end of sale. They might be re-selling their VL keys which is breaking their contract and a pretty dumb move unless you are based in a country where MS cannot be bothered to touch you. In saying that they did hire police in thailand a decade ago to go around the internet cafes armed with assault rifles

 and I thought I didn't want people using XP... 

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Lol you showed your own complete and utter ignorance with that display.

 

Windows 7 IS VISTA. It is nigh identical to Vista on the kernel level, and 8 through 10 are notable and significant departures from the vista/7 kernel (with 10 sharing as similar a kernel to 8.1 as 7 does to Vista).

Care to explain how Vista and Windows 7 were "nigh identical" but Windows 7 and Windows 8 aren't on a kernel level? I don't want any vague answers either, since you are calling others ignorant.

 

 

2 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Allowing people the option to buy new hardware and run out of date, terribly insecure, and non-supported platforms is the same crap that cost us 5+ extra years of 32 bit games (2011 games requiring custom script extenders when the first 64 bit consumer processors came out in 2003).

Are you calling Windows 7 "terribly insecure"? Because Windows 7 had fewer publicly known security holes than Windows 10 had last year. Care to back up your claim that Windows 7 is unsecure and Windows 10 isn't?

 

Windows 7 is still supported. It will continue to be supported until 2020.

 

What do you mean Windows 7 cost us 5+ extra years of 32 bit games? Are you saying Microsoft should have dropped the 32bit version with Windows 7? If so, I hope you realize that there is a 32bit version of Windows 10 too. They didn't go 64bit-only with Windows 10.

 

2 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

For the average consumer using EoL operating systems at all is an accident waiting to happen, and purposefully throwing it on new hardware is a travesty.

Good thing Windows 7 isn't EoL, right? Support stops in 2020. So it's 3 years until support stops.

 

 

2 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

EoL for Windows 7 was over two years ago. Aka no official technical support WHATSOEVER. It does gets slow rolling security patches until 2020 though.

That's not EoL. What ended was sales and mainstream support. Also, Microsoft clearly showed that they don't give a damn about their customers and ended the support for Windows 7 early, so security updates was all you were getting anyway. The end of mainstream support didn't mean anything to anyone. Nothing changed.

[SCHISCHKA]

1 hour ago, Fetzie said:

The cpus will release first in a few weeks time. This was confirmed at their q4 stakeholders meeting last week. Apus are expected around the beginning of q3.

that sucks because I'm waiting to see if i can build a 1080p gaming machine with an APU that kicks a consoles ass

[ManIkWeet]

10 hours ago, VerticalDiscussions said:

Ah come on, just get Windows 10 already. Its free .-.

 

#WasFree

Technically still is... But noone talks about it (I did it and it works, upgraded W8.1 to W10 for free)

[Equlix]

3 hours ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Allowing people the option to buy new hardware and run out of date, terribly insecure, and non-supported platforms is the same crap that cost us 5+ extra years of 32 bit games (2011 games requiring custom script extenders when the first 64 bit consumer processors came out in 2003)

mmm yes. all that extra head room we would have had with 64 bit 5 years sooner only to still be hamstrung by xbox360/ps3 console ports. When windows isn't an advertisement by default people may start taking it seriously.

[Okjoek]

12 hours ago, Drak3 said:

Not initially. First, AMD will just push Ryzen CPUs, with APUs to follow at a later date, presumably because they're going to be packing Vega based graphics (probably cut back to between RX460 and RX470 levels of performance at the high end).

You think they can pack more graphics processing power into an APU than my entire RX 460? 

 

I'd actually really like to buy that then. No more discrete GPU for me

[Space Reptile]

6 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Hm, that quote out of context could make it sound like there will be no RyZen APUs  

well cpu= cant do . gpu= can do  and apu = cpu+gpu so it can do  

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6 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

But... aren't you from Germany?  Couldn't you translate yourself?  

yea but im also lazy and it was midnight when posting this topic

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6 hours ago, SCHISCHKA said:

ignoring the possible errors in translation I wonder if it will cooperate nicely with Nvidia GPU

most likely , it just looks in the gpu for the Encoding/Decoding hardware and uses it , its down to the drivers of the gpu to cooperate w/ this request 

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6 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Then please buy out the entire stock of XP licenses so no one else can have them  

lucky me , i own a mass licence , just pop in the cd and no key required  

[cj09beira]

14 hours ago, Drak3 said:

There's just something to the look of Aero and the XP UI that many people, me included, love.

i am using xp on win 8.1

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

9 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

And between the two, Windows 7 is less resource-heavy than Windows 10, on my machine (which has both installed)

Last year I did the exact same comparison between fresh, fully updated installs of Vista SP2 and Win7 SP1 on the same machine, and Win7 was using more RAM, needed more disk space and worked the CPU a lot harder (you really notice that difference on a small single-core Atom)

 

So basically Win10 is a much bigger resource hog than Vista ever was.

 

 

[Ryujin2003]

16 hours ago, Space Reptile said:

Snip (original post)

http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2016/9/5/microsoft-confirms-no-backwards-compatibility-on-7th-generation-processors

 

I have been following this since at least September when Microsoft said that there wasn't going to be any backwards compatability on the new chips for any OS older than W10.

 

So yes, this may run; however, the prior OS's won't be optimized or updated to take advantage of any advanced processor capabilities. W10 will be optimized with the new processors of course, but they won't be putting any effort into ensuring there aren't any bugs with W7 and the new Intel or AMD chips.

 

So, no... not a surprise that AMD Ryzen will work with W7, but don't be surprised if W7 doesn't cooperate to well with any enhanced CPU features. Same with Intel. Windows is flexible and will run on almost anything.

[Space Reptile]

26 minutes ago, Captain Chaos said:

Last year I did the exact same comparison between fresh, fully updated installs of Vista SP2 and Win7 SP1 on the same machine, and Win7 was using more RAM, needed more disk space and worked the CPU a lot harder (you really notice that difference on a small single-core Atom)

 

So basically Win10 is a much bigger resource hog than Vista ever was.

 

 

i ran windows 7 on a Dell inspiron laptop ,

2.4ghz mobile P4 (single core single thread) , a Geforce MX440 gpu and a whopping 700mb ram 

it ran faster and more reliable than XP (the os it was made for) 

[Space Reptile]

27 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

So yes, this may run; however, the prior OS's won't be optimized or updated to take advantage of any advanced processor capabilities. W10 will be optimized with the new processors of course, but they won't be putting any effort into ensuring there aren't any bugs with W7 and the new Intel or AMD chips.

 

So, no... not a surprise that AMD Ryzen will work with W7, but don't be surprised if W7 doesn't cooperate to well with any enhanced CPU features. Same with Intel. Windows is flexible and will run on almost anything.

amd will release official drivers for those features for operation on windows 7 , the cpu will work no matter what as it is an X86 , kaby works aswell under 7 , just certain features are locked as there are no drivers , also its a bit less stable 

[Sniperfox47]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Care to explain how Vista and Windows 7 were "nigh identical" but Windows 7 and Windows 8 aren't on a kernel level? I don't want any vague answers either, since you are calling others ignorant.

 

 

Are you calling Windows 7 "terribly insecure"? Because Windows 7 had fewer publicly known security holes than Windows 10 had last year. Care to back up your claim that Windows 7 is unsecure and Windows 10 isn't?

 

Windows 7 is still supported. It will continue to be supported until 2020.

 

What do you mean Windows 7 cost us 5+ extra years of 32 bit games? Are you saying Microsoft should have dropped the 32bit version with Windows 7? If so, I hope you realize that there is a 32bit version of Windows 10 too. They didn't go 64bit-only with Windows 10.

 

Good thing Windows 7 isn't EoL, right? Support stops in 2020. So it's 3 years until support stops.

 

 

That's not EoL. What ended was sales and mainstream support. Also, Microsoft clearly showed that they don't give a damn about their customers and ended the support for Windows 7 early, so security updates was all you were getting anyway. The end of mainstream support didn't mean anything to anyone. Nothing changed.

A) A lot of the driver stack changed in Windows 8, particularly revolving around Display and Network drivers. A lot of task scheduling and resource management changed too. There are a *TON* of under the hood changes that happened. Saying that the version of NT in Windows 7 and the version of NT in Windows 10 are the same kernel is like saying that Linux 2.6 and 4.7 are the same kernel. Go try and run Fedora 24 on new hardware with a Linux 2.6 kernel xP

 

B) I don't disagree with you that Windows 7 is probably more secure than Windows 10 but be careful with your facts. The article you link is about vulnerabilities fixed that year, not total vulnerabilities. It does not include outstanding vulnerabilities or vulnerabilities that haven't been fixed. It also doesn't address how long the vulnerability existed before being patched.

 

C) It is supported for extended support only. While that may not be relevant to you, it definitely is to hardware and software vendors who decide what versions of Windows to target using that info.

[Curufinwe_wins]

10 hours ago, SCHISCHKA said:

you have confused end of life with end of sales. OEM windows 7 pro was only end of sales last year and will have extended support until Jan 14th 2020.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-nz/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

 

 

No actually I didn't. End of MAINSTREAM support means no online/phone/tech support for non-enterprise customers.

Client operating systems	Latest update or service pack	End of mainstream support	End of extended support
Windows XP	Service Pack 3	April 14, 2009	April 8, 2014
Windows Vista	Service Pack 2	April 10, 2012	April 11, 2017
Windows 7*	Service Pack 1	January 13, 2015	January 14, 2020
Windows 8	Windows 8.1	January 9, 2018	January 10, 2023
Windows 10, released in July 2015**	N/A	October 13, 2020	October 14, 2025

 

 

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

 

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2475079,00.asp

[vanished]

4 hours ago, cj09beira said:

i am using xp on win 8.1

my god that's ugly  

[Curufinwe_wins]

10 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

I'm aware of that. It's Vista's lack of modern hardware and driver support that makes it more different than Windows 7 and onwards.

 

You're not getting the point that Windows 10 is nearly the same OS than Windows 7, and so when people design for Windows 10, they're pretty much also designing for Windows 7, and vice versa. There is nothing being held back by continued development for Windows 7.

 

And with all the problems there have been with Windows 10 updates since its release, a person is likely to be far more secure by using Windows 7 right now than by using Windows 10.

See the comment below. It really isn't.

27 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

A) A lot of the driver stack changed in Windows 8, particularly revolving around Display and Network drivers. A lot of task scheduling and resource management changed too. There are a *TON* of under the hood changes that happened. Saying that the version of NT in Windows 7 and the version of NT in Windows 10 are the same kernel is like saying that Linux 2.6 and 4.7 are the same kernel. Go try and run Fedora 24 on new hardware with a Linux 2.6 kernel xP

 

https://insights.sei.cmu.edu/cert/2016/11/windows-10-cannot-protect-insecure-applications-like-emet-can.html

 

From a purely OS standpoint, feature by feature, implementation by implementation. Windows 7 is notably less secure than Windows 10 (if anyone really wanted to stay on a non-10 OS, 8.1 is many many times closer to 10 as far as safety, feature mitigation, and drivers go).

 

 

Oh and the white-hat groups summary recommendations?

Quote

From an exploit mitigation perspective, upgrading to Windows 10 is a good idea.