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Fabian Flaa

Trust autonomous cars?

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Trust should rely on heavy amounts of data to point the person in the direction the evidence takes them, and with that being said, while I think autonomous cars have the ability to do amazing things, as Google and Tesla have demonstrated in their testing, we still need more data that they will be mostly beneficial to humankind. More optimizations are still required, and in the event that someone who cannot drive a car is in an autonomous vehicle, what happens if the car cannot react properly and a big accident occurs because the person cannot take control? I mean, imagine someone is drunk while in the car, or it's a lady that requires the use of a wheelchair...whatever the case may be. What if they're put in a situation that the car cannot properly react to? 

 

I am of the opinion that companies will just constantly update their code, but we need as much testing as possible in order to prevent those problems from occurring in the first place. 


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I'm sure they are perfectly safe, the question is why would I want one? I love driving and will never buy an automated car. hell for that matter I will never buy an automatic car. lol

 

However for most people i think they are good, most people don't like driving and it will make them safer. Also good for disabled people  like my granddad who is the worst driver i have ever seen and he should not be allowed to drive.


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15 hours ago, Froody129 said:

For them to work and be safe all cars need to be autonomous on the road. This will prevent accidents and reduce traffic. The issue is what happens in a place like South Africa where there are lots of places where you need an off-road capable car? Will they be able to that? 

 

Also so there's the issue of some people still wanting to drive manually, where autonomous cars won't work until they can communicate with each other so they can decide what to do.

Another issue:  How do autonomous vehicles deal with farm tractors, equipment, trailers, etc.?  The indecent with the Telsa car showed what happened with programming that does not take in account for a white trailer.  Though, this also falls on the driver's fault since Telsa puts a blasted warning to keep aware of one's surroundings!  Plus, what about motorcycles and bikes?  I can see California being a nightmare considering lane splitting is allowed.

 

I actually have no problems with auto driving being allowed.  I can see the tech benefiting elderly or people who can no longer physical drive themselves.  Just a lot of variables to work out and a tech that is still maturing.


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24 minutes ago, Ithanul said:

Though, this also falls on the driver's fault since Telsa puts a blasted warning to keep aware of one's surroundings!  Plus, what about motorcycles and bikes?

I took a Tesla for a test drive the other day and they do sense motorcycles/mopeds and bicycles (assuming you meant pedal bikes). 

 

 

I find the system to be safe for those rides where the cruise may be too long, too congested, or on highways with no traffic. They seem incredibly safe and accurate as far as the sensors are concerned and it allows you to maintain attention to the surroundings while assisting you in lane changes and blind spot detection. 

 

I would consider getting one if my DVM insurance payment was a little lower and my ride home-work wasn't only 14 miles. 


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Considering that 'autonomous' cars don't work when there's rain, dust, snow, sleet, mechanical degradation, electrical degradation, GPS denial, cell service denial, and a whole litany of other factors, it seems foolish to trust the technology.  The tech industry is severely exaggerating its maturity and downplaying the costs of delivering a vehicle at the required reliability levels.  Human-machine interfaces are poorly researched as well. 

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2 hours ago, Godlygamer23 said:

 

I am of the opinion that companies will just constantly update their code, but we need as much testing as possible in order to prevent those problems from occurring in the first place. 

What about the problem of older self-driving cars?   Will "version 1.0" be banned from the roads when version 2.0 comes out?  Who decides what the lifespan of a self-driving car will be? 

 

And who is going to pay for the trillion dollars or more of upgraded highways and other infrastructure to actually make it all work properly?  The motoring public that can barely even afford conventional cars and highways at current prices?  Heck no! 

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16 hours ago, Fabian Flaa said:

I'm writing a text for school with the motive to encourage people to trust autonomous cars. I thought i'd post here and see if we can get a bit of a disussion going about weather you should trust autonomous cars or not, and why? 

dont tell Donald Trump that autonomous cars will take jobs. he might build a wall around them.

13 hours ago, moderategamer said:

Don't trust them this is how it starts we start giving them controll over daily aspects of our life then they become self aware and realise they don't need to take that shit anymore next thing you know the cylons have taken over sending us back to the dark ages. Fracking toasters !

there is a thought experiment you might be interested in reading that tries to determine if a machine could become self-aware. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room#Chinese_room_thought_experiment

 

 


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34 minutes ago, Mark77 said:

What about the problem of older self-driving cars?   Will "version 1.0" be banned from the roads when version 2.0 comes out?  Who decides what the lifespan of a self-driving car will be? 

 

And who is going to pay for the trillion dollars or more of upgraded highways and other infrastructure to actually make it all work properly?  The motoring public that can barely even afford conventional cars and highways at current prices?  Heck no! 

you won't own a car. only super rich will own cars. all cars will be owned by GM/lift or Uber/whoever they partner with and google. everyone will get around in self driving electric/petrol hybrids where they pay per hour or km


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38 minutes ago, Mark77 said:

Considering that 'autonomous' cars don't work when there's rain, dust, snow, sleet, mechanical degradation, electrical degradation, GPS denial, cell service denial, and a whole litany of other factors, it seems foolish to trust the technology.  The tech industry is severely exaggerating its maturity and downplaying the costs of delivering a vehicle at the required reliability levels.  Human-machine interfaces are poorly researched as well. 

HMI are not poorly researched, they are widely researched. Right now most of the science in autonomous vehicles without GPS has been around the mars rover project, so future research has somewhere to start from. Im doing research myself with smart phone hardware in vehicles but GPS, and mobile data network connection to google maps API is a huge dependency on my work.


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2 hours ago, treeroy said:

I'm sure they are perfectly safe, the question is why would I want one? I love driving and will never buy an automated car. hell for that matter I will never buy an automatic car. lol

 

However for most people i think they are good, most people don't like driving and it will make them safer. Also good for disabled people  like my granddad who is the worst driver i have ever seen and he should not be allowed to drive.

i want one on friday night after a few drinks. I also want to drink a few when i go fishing but can't coz i have to drink home. Im not paying for a taxi/uber to pick me up from a remote beach. It would also be good to read a book or eat a meal during a long commute to/from work


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21 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

dont tell Donald Trump that autonomous cars will take jobs. he might build a wall around them.

there is a thought experiment you might be interested in reading that tries to determine if a machine could become self-aware. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room#Chinese_room_thought_experiment

 

 

Fortunately they won't pay for it so they'll be fine


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37 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

you won't own a car. only super rich will own cars. all cars will be owned by GM/lift or Uber/whoever they partner with and google. everyone will get around in self driving electric/petrol hybrids where they pay per hour or km

Lol, good luck with that.  You really want to travel around in a car that is full of the smells, and garbage of others?  Do you have any clue how the average person treats their car?  Watch COPS sometime and see the sort of ashtrays and garbage dumps that lots of cars are turned into by their owners.

 

33 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

HMI are not poorly researched, they are widely researched. Right now most of the science in autonomous vehicles without GPS has been around the mars rover project, so future research has somewhere to start from. Im doing research myself with smart phone hardware in vehicles but GPS, and mobile data network connection to google maps API is a huge dependency on my work.

Actually they are poorly researched.  Is a steering wheel, for example, the optimal HMI for interfacing with a car?  I doubt it.  Yet 100% of cars are built with steering wheels.  Also, there's a lot of human factors engineering stuff which needs to go into a driverless car, especially since there will invariably be operating regimes which require a hand-off to a human driver.  Will a driverless car drive into a icestorm, and then, at the last moment, decide it can't drive anymore and crash?  That's simply not acceptable to the user.  A graceful way needs to be in place to hand off control for example. 

 

Mars doesn't have highways, weather, or traffic, and the Mars vehicles go at like 2 miles per hour or some slow nonsense like that.  A completely different problem.  A self-driving car must be able to self-drive without loading or relying upon an external database just in case network connectivity is lost. 

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6 minutes ago, Mark77 said:

 

yea iv thought about the mess but i think thats just the price of being a peasant in this century. All the HMI research, look it up on google.scholar.com. Everything from safety and fuel efficiency has been researched. For the steering wheel example BMW won an award about 10 years ago for the advancement they made in steering wheel automation


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4 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

yea iv thought about the mess but i think thats just the price of being a peasant in this century. All the HMI research, look it up on google.scholar.com. Everything from safety and fuel efficiency has been researched. For the steering wheel example BMW won an award about 10 years ago for the advancement they made in steering wheel automation

Sure, there's pieces of the puzzle in place, but the whole autonomous car thing is decades away from a realizable and socially acceptable system that can operate on generic highways, and actually be attained at a realistic price.

 

The tech companies, ones which mostly don't have any expertise in embedded systems engineering, vehicles, etc., that are pushing "self-driving" so hard, are largely doing it as a propaganda stunt. 

 

The real expertise in autonomous vehicles and systems lies with the defense companies, ie: Lockheed Martin, Honeywell, Raytheon.   Those companies are leaps and bounds more advanced in their technology applicable to autonomous vehicles and highly reliable embedded systems than Google and Tesla.  Many of the requisite technologies for safe and reliable self-driving vehicles are subject to pretty tight military controls under ITAR and other regulations, and definitely won't be appearing in "for sale to consumer" systems anytime soon. 

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4 hours ago, Ithanul said:

Another issue:  How do autonomous vehicles deal with farm tractors, equipment, trailers, etc.?  The indecent with the Telsa car showed what happened with programming that does not take in account for a white trailer.  Though, this also falls on the driver's fault since Telsa puts a blasted warning to keep aware of one's surroundings!  Plus, what about motorcycles and bikes?  I can see California being a nightmare considering lane splitting is allowed.

 

I actually have no problems with auto driving being allowed.  I can see the tech benefiting elderly or people who can no longer physical drive themselves.  Just a lot of variables to work out and a tech that is still maturing.

The tesla's cameras etc couldnt 'see'the white trailer irrc


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9 hours ago, Ithanul said:

Another issue:  How do autonomous vehicles deal with farm tractors, equipment, trailers, etc.?  The indecent with the Telsa car showed what happened with programming that does not take in account for a white trailer.  Though, this also falls on the driver's fault since Telsa puts a blasted warning to keep aware of one's surroundings!  Plus, what about motorcycles and bikes?  I can see California being a nightmare considering lane splitting is allowed.

 

I actually have no problems with auto driving being allowed.  I can see the tech benefiting elderly or people who can no longer physical drive themselves.  Just a lot of variables to work out and a tech that is still maturing.

None of those is an issue anymore. It's not the programming that didn't see the trailer, it's the cameras and radar, which have since received a hardware update to make it impossible in the future. And it can already easily see any obstacle, whether it's a tractor or other farm equipment. It sees all obstacles the same, it just can tell in addition to seeing them, what is and isn't a car. All obstacles get treated the same, afaik.

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On 31/01/2017 at 0:20 AM, Litargirio said:

Here's the just a few cases of the Tesla autopilot predicting and in some cases avoiding accidents:

 

 

 

I thought I made it obvious that I was talking about the plane's autopilot. I guess I should have made it obvious for people unwilling to read.

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3 hours ago, slightlyjaded said:

I thought I made it obvious that I was talking about the plane's autopilot. I guess I should have made it obvious for people unwilling to read.

Oh... yeah, sorry; I have a tendency of not reading stuff before replying.


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