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Glenwing

Guide to Display Cables / Adapters (v2)

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Hello.

I have a monitor with only dvi and displayport input I wonder if its possible to connect my ps4 pro to my monitor?

It's a cheap 24inch 1080p monitor and I got really confused when I select htmi to displayport adapter in first page one way its possible and another way its not?

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12 hours ago, Ero said:

Hello.

I have a monitor with only dvi and displayport input I wonder if its possible to connect my ps4 pro to my monitor?

It's a cheap 24inch 1080p monitor and I got really confused when I select htmi to displayport adapter in first page one way its possible and another way its not?

The simplest method is to use the DVI input of your monitor:

Use a passive HDMI to DVI cable or adapter. DVI uses the same signals as HDMI.

 

If you want to use the DisplayPort input of your monitor then:

There exist HDMI 1.4 to DisplayPort active adapters (1440p60, 4K30). Your monitor is only 1080p so HDMI 1.4 is good enough. This info is in the original post.

There also exists really expensive HDMI 2.0 to DisplayPort active adapters (4K60). This info is missing from the "HDMI Source to DisplayPort Display" section if the original post (adapters from SIIG and gofanco https://insights.club-3d.com/thread/hdmi-2-0-to-displayport-1-2-2/6/ ) .

 

DisplayPort to HDMI adapters also exist. This is mentioned in the original post. I don't know why you say "displayport adapter in first page one way its possible and another way its not" since the original post doe mention that adapters exist for both directions.

 

The rest of this post is for other things (unrelated to your problem) that are missing from the original post:

 

If you have a dual link DVI monitor (your monitor is only 1080p so it is only single link):

You can chain a DisplayPort to Dual Link DVI adapter to a HDMI 1.4 to DisplayPort adapter to convert single link HDMI (340 MHz) to dual link DVI (330 MHz). This adapter chaining method may be unreliable - some OSs (Ubuntu) may handle it better than others (macOS) because of some plug detect issue?

I think the "HDMI Source to DVI Display" section of the original post should be updated with this info.

 

If you have a dual link output only (old graphics card) and a DisplayPort monitor:

There exists the Gefen Dual Link DVI to Mini DP Converter. This is missing from the original post.

 

For DisplayPort to DisplayPort:

An MST Hub can convert different DisplayPort lane counts (1,2,4) and link rates (RBR, HBR, HBR2, HBR3) from source to sink (much like a PCIe switch can convert PCIe  3.0 x4 to PCIe 2.0 or 1.0 x16).

There now exists DisplayPort 1.4 MST hubs (Club 3D, Delock, and soon StarTech) that can accept Display Stream Compression input and transmit that to output or decompress it for non DSC supporting displays.  https://insights.club-3d.com/thread/displayport-1-4-mst-hub/

MST hubs can also support multiple displays (but macOS can only use one display from a hub - the rest are mirrored).

The original post doesn't mention MST. Other things not mentioned:

The DisplayPort 1.2 standard can be found on the internet (but isn't supposed to be?)

The DSC spec is freely available from the VESA free standard website. It contains code that you can use to see how visually lossless the algorithm is.

 

Other things to update in the original post:

  • "Thunderbolt 3 Source to DisplayPort Display": Missing mention of DisplayPort 1.3, DisplayPort 1.4 support since Titan Ridge.
  • "DisplayPort Source to Thunderbolt 3 Display": A Thunderbolt 3 add-in (such as GC-TITAN RIDGE or GC-ALPINE RIDGE) card can be used to convert DisplayPort to Thunderbolt 3 if you want to connect a Thunderbolt display. If the add-in card is not connected by PCIe to your computer, then you won't be able to use the extra functionality of the display that requires PCIe tunnelling (brightness control, camera, USB audio, FireWire, Ethernet, etc.) For some unknown reason, The Apple Thunderbolt Display (Thunderbolt 1) doesn't work from a GC-TITAN RIDGE (but does work from any Titan Ridge of a Mac).
  • "DisplayPort Source to USB Type-C DisplayPort Alternate Mode Display": this can be done with the above Thunderbolt add-in card method. There also exists PCIe cards from Delock and SUNIX. And there are external adapters such as the Wacom Link Plus (but not the Wacom Link). https://hardforum.com/threads/use-usb-c-monitor-without-usb-c.1911817/page-2
  • Component Video ? Maybe this goes under VGA since they are both analog. Or it doesn't matter since it's old. Also in the VGA category could be the old Apple 15 pin connector which is mostly just VGA but in a wider two row D-SUB connector. Before EDID, Apple used a 3 pin sense line scheme to differentiate different connected displays. The pins were connected together (or not) with wires or diodes and grounded or not for 512 different possible circuits producing 45 different results though maybe only 17 were ever used (one of them being "no-connect"). There were old Mac to VGA display adapters with dip switches to select one of those results to make the old Mac think the VGA display was, for example, an Apple 2 Page Mono display, or RGB 19 inch display, etc. Many of these displays only supported a single refresh rate (they were not multi-sync).

 

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I forgot one item missing from the original post:

For DisplayPort or USB-C to VGA adapters, there do exist adapters that can do up to 340 MHz. I have a Plugable usbc-vga adapter which can convert DisplayPort 1.2 (2 lanes of HBR2) to VGA (up to 330 MHz). I don't know why they only advertise 1920×1200@60Hz. For some reason, macOS limits the adapter to 160 MHz. Maybe Apple meant to limit some specific adapter but managed to limit all of them (I made a patch to remove that limit for macOS Intel graphics drivers).

 

Many of the adapters are discussed at

https://hardforum.com/threads/24-widescreen-crt-fw900-from-ebay-arrived-comments.952788/page-426

 

 

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 hour ago, joevt said:

If you have a dual link DVI monitor (your monitor is only 1080p so it is only single link):

You can chain a DisplayPort to Dual Link DVI adapter to a HDMI 1.4 to DisplayPort adapter to convert single link HDMI (340 MHz) to dual link DVI (330 MHz). This adapter chaining method may be unreliable - some OSs (Ubuntu) may handle it better than others (macOS) because of some plug detect issue?

I think the "HDMI Source to DVI Display" section of the original post should be updated with this info.

In general, I try to buy every adapter and test it before making recommendations. I have several HDMI to DP active adapters and several DP to DL-DVI active adapters that I know all work individually, and to date I have never been successful in getting a connection to work with any of them chained together, which is why I don't recommend it (and in fact recommend against it). It will not be added to the guide, even if I found a combination that did work, due to the extreme unreliability.

 

1 hour ago, joevt said:

If you want to use the DisplayPort input of your monitor then:

There exist HDMI 1.4 to DisplayPort active adapters (1440p60, 4K30). Your monitor is only 1080p so HDMI 1.4 is good enough. This info is in the original post.

There also exists really expensive HDMI 2.0 to DisplayPort active adapters (4K60). This info is missing from the "HDMI Source to DisplayPort Display" section if the original post (adapters from SIIG and gofanco https://insights.club-3d.com/thread/hdmi-2-0-to-displayport-1-2-2/6/ ) .

I have seen them, but I haven't added them yet. There many reviews indicating that they are not general purpose adapters, they only work with specific formats (4K 60 Hz CTA-861 timing and a few others). I'm not planning on adding them until I buy one to test so I can be fully aware of their limitations. And they're quite expensive, so I don't know when that will be :P It's not a priority since demand for these is quite low. They're really only useful for the handful of 4K displays released around 2014–2015 that supported DP 1.2 but only HDMI 1.4, and people who are already using all their DP outputs. Today, HDMI 2.0 support is pretty much universal, only G-Sync monitors are still carrying the DP 1.2/HDMI 1.4 combo, most of them are 1440p 144 Hz rather than 4K 60 Hz, which doesn't appear to be supported with those adapters (not sure since I haven't tested though), and G-Sync also doesn't work through the adapter either, so again demand is pretty low.

 

I might add them in my next revision just to warn people about these potential limitations though :P

 

1 hour ago, joevt said:

Gefen Dual Link DVI to Mini DP Converter.

Thank you, I was unaware of this :)

 

1 hour ago, joevt said:

An MST Hub can convert different DisplayPort lane counts (1,2,4) and link rates (RBR, HBR, HBR2, HBR3) from source to sink (much like a PCIe switch can convert PCIe  3.0 x4 to PCIe 2.0 or 1.0 x16).

 

Quote

There now exists DisplayPort 1.4 MST hubs (Club 3D, Delock, and soon StarTech) that can accept Display Stream Compression input and transmit that to output or decompress it for non DSC supporting displays.

Noted, thank you :)

 

1 hour ago, joevt said:

The original post doesn't mention MST.

I was planning to make a "How to Connect to Multiple Displays" section, but haven't gotten around to it :P

 

1 hour ago, joevt said:

The DisplayPort 1.2 standard can be found on the internet

I have already received several DMCA takedown requests (from HDMI Licensing as well as the CTA), and as a result I stick to only listing non-confidential versions.

 

1 hour ago, joevt said:

"Thunderbolt 3 Source to DisplayPort Display": Missing mention of DisplayPort 1.3, DisplayPort 1.4 support since Titan Ridge.

Looks like I forgot to update that :P

1 hour ago, joevt said:

"DisplayPort Source to Thunderbolt 3 Display": A Thunderbolt 3 add-in (such as GC-TITAN RIDGE or GC-ALPINE RIDGE) card can be used to convert DisplayPort to Thunderbolt 3 if you want to connect a Thunderbolt display. If the add-in card is not connected by PCIe to your computer, then you won't be able to use the extra functionality of the display that requires PCIe tunnelling (brightness control, camera, USB audio, FireWire, Ethernet, etc.) For some unknown reason, The Apple Thunderbolt Display (Thunderbolt 1) doesn't work from a GC-TITAN RIDGE (but does work from any Titan Ridge of a Mac).

I'm not sure if that really counts as an adapter :P

 

Quote

"DisplayPort Source to USB Type-C DisplayPort Alternate Mode Display": this can be done with the above Thunderbolt add-in card method. There also exists PCIe cards from Delock and SUNIX. And there are external adapters such as the Wacom Link Plus (but not the Wacom Link). https://hardforum.com/threads/use-usb-c-monitor-without-usb-c.1911817/page-2

I'll look into it. I try to re-check every once in a while for any new developments in all the "no adapters exist for this combination" cases, but unfortunately I've been too busy to stay on top of things lately :(

 

1 hour ago, joevt said:

Component Video ? Maybe this goes under VGA since they are both analog. Or it doesn't matter since it's old. Also in the VGA category could be the old Apple 15 pin connector which is mostly just VGA but in a wider two row D-SUB connector. Before EDID, Apple used a 3 pin sense line scheme to differentiate different connected displays. The pins were connected together (or not) with wires or diodes and grounded or not for 512 different possible circuits producing 45 different results though maybe only 17 were ever used (one of them being "no-connect"). There were old Mac to VGA display adapters with dip switches to select one of those results to make the old Mac think the VGA display was, for example, an Apple 2 Page Mono display, or RGB 19 inch display, etc. Many of these displays only supported a single refresh rate (they were not multi-sync).

I'm not going to add component, composite, SCART connectors, or any other TV-centric or legacy CRT connections. This guide is only focused on the connections that can be found on modern PC monitors, which is VGA, DVI, HDMI, and DP, and more recently USB-C/TB3.

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5 hours ago, Glenwing said:

I'm not sure if that really counts as an adapter :P

It's a DIY thing. Put it in a box. Attach a power supply. And you got an adapter! Then attach DisplayPort cables and LG UltraFine 5K. It's kind of expensive though, like the HDMI 2.0 to DisplayPort adapters.

 

I think the Wacom Link Plus is at least worth looking at (the HDMI input did not work well for me but DisplayPort works). It's limited to DisplayPort 1.2 (4 lanes HBR2) and USB 2.0 (the input is USB Micro B). There's a similar adapter from BizLink which supports DisplayPort 1.4 and USB 3.1 gen 2 and VirtualLink but I don't think it's a real product which is sad. Does anything use VirtualLink? Even if VirtualLink alt mode is useless, the adapter also supports DisplayPort alt mode.

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Posted · Original PosterOP
On 1/19/2020 at 10:07 AM, joevt said:

Us mere mortals don't get access to the real Thunderbolt documentation. The USB4 spec is publicly available and may describe most of how Thunderbolt works. Section 10 is all about DisplayPort tunnelling. Section 10.4.2.1 is about Path Configuration: Setup. The next page (pg 362) describes how the Connection Manager calculates bandwidth available to limit the maximal link rate and lane count of the DP IN adapter's DP_REMOTE_CAP register. I guess Apple changed this calculation to allow two HBR3 four lane connections. I need an AGDCDiagnose output to prove that (but I believe there's no other way to get 6K without DSC). I wonder if two HBR3 connections is allowed only for the XDR display, or if it will also work with my two displays (It's actually one Acer XV273K with two DisplayPort 1.4 inputs). If it does work with the Acer to allow two HBR3 connections, I wonder what happens if I increase the refresh rates so that the bandwidth exceeds the 40 Gbps limit (does it gracefully disconnect, stop, or show garbage). I don't have a Titan Ridge Mac with AMD dGPU to test.

 

A correction to what I said previously about connecting two 4K displays to Thunderbolt 2 (method: connect HBR display first, then first 4K, then replace HBR display with second 4K). The AGDCDiagnose outputs show that they both connect with DisplayPort 1.1 HBR four lanes. To get one to be connected with DisplayPort 1.2 HBR2 four lanes, they both need to be disconnected first. This behavior matches what is described by the USB4 spec (I'm not sure why the DisplayPort version needs to change - just the link width and lane count should be sufficient).

 

The limit calculation described by USB4 has a problem. If I have 4 lanes of HBR available, will it allow 2 lanes of HBR2? I did this test with a two lane DisplayPort 1.2 adapter after setting up a single HBR x4 connection to Thunderbolt 2. The answer is that it connects with 2 lanes of HBR instead of HBR2. This is not optimal. Apple is right to allow max link rate and lanes (exceeding 40 Gbps) instead of that silly calculation.

 

The problem (that Apple bypasses for the XDR?) is that a limit is placed on both lanes and link rate, but bandwidth is the product of both, where HBR x4 is the same as HBR2 x2. Another but: for Thunderbolt, bandwidth is about pixels per second and not related to DisplayPort lanes and link rate (stuffing symbols are removed - see Figure 10-22 in the USB4 spec). 6K doesn't require full dual HBR3 but does require more than dual HBR2 so Thunderbolt 3 Titan Ridge should be able to handle 6K as Apple has made it do. Ideally, a user should be able to lower the bandwidth used by a display (decrease refresh rate or resolution or pixel depth) to increase the bandwidth allowed for another display connected to the same Thunderbolt 3 port without disconnecting/reconnecting the displays.

 

Another situation where the limit calculation has a problem: If I have a Thunderbolt 3 dock with an internal DisplayPort 1.4 MST hub (like the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2) connected to a Thunderbolt 2 port, then any display (even if it is HBR only) connected to the hub will use the full DisplayPort 1.2 HBR2 four lane connection of the hub so a second display cannot be connected to the Thunderbolt port of the HP Thunderbolt Dock G2. Of course, an MST hub allows multiple displays to be connected, but that doesn't work in macOS which doesn't support MST for multiple displays (but does support MST for old 4K displays that use a separate stream for each side of the display).

 

Just to clarify, the XDR display runs at full resolution 60 Hz with 10 bpc color at the same time, without DSC?

 

9 hours ago, joevt said:

It's a DIY thing. Put it in a box. Attach a power supply. And you got an adapter! Then attach DisplayPort cables and LG UltraFine 5K. It's kind of expensive though, like the HDMI 2.0 to DisplayPort adapters.

I think that's outside the scope of this guide :P

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15 hours ago, Glenwing said:

Just to clarify, the XDR display runs at full resolution 60 Hz with 10 bpc color at the same time, without DSC?

I believe so. I'm waiting for someone to post results of the following commands to prove it.

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/AGDCDiagnose -a > AGDCDiagnose_a.txt 2>&1

/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/DisplayDiagnose -a > DisplayDiagnose_a.txt 2>&1

The Apple Pro Display XDR Tech Specs do not mention any reduced visual capability for Macs or MPX modules that do not support DSC (if they at least have AMD graphics and Titan Ridge Thunderbolt controllers).

Google: xdr site:support.apple.com/en-us

The only reduced capability is the bandwidth left remaining for USB.

No-one has made any complaints about reduced capability (except when they do something wrong like try to connect two displays to the same Thunderbolt controller).

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I have an Acer GN276HL monitor and a MSI Gaming X Trio 2080 Super. I was wondering if someone could share a link to a cable that would be able to run 144hz. Attached are pictures of what cables work with the given ports of the graphics card and monitor. Thank you in advance if you can help

GN246HL-photo-gallery-04.png

Msi-GeForce-RTX-2080-SUPER-GAMING-X-TRIO-Graphics-Card-4.jpg

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 hours ago, rymegs said:

I have an Acer GN276HL monitor and a MSI Gaming X Trio 2080 Super. I was wondering if someone could share a link to a cable that would be able to run 144hz. Attached are pictures of what cables work with the given ports of the graphics card and monitor. Thank you in advance if you can help

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XYBA72/?tag=linus21-20

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On 1/31/2020 at 12:24 PM, rymegs said:

I have an Acer GN276HL monitor and a MSI Gaming X Trio 2080 Super. I was wondering if someone could share a link to a cable that would be able to run 144hz. Attached are pictures of what cables work with the given ports of the graphics card and monitor.

The manual says you need Dual Link DVI for max resolution/refresh rate 1920x1080@144Hz.

Since your RTX card has a USB-C port, you could use a USB-C to Dual Link DVI adapter (if you're not using the USB-C port for a USB-C display or hard drive or dock).

I like Club 3D stuff because they have a user forum and have VESA certified cables for HBR3 speed.

https://www.club-3d.com/en/detail/2471/usb_type_c_to_dvi_i_dual_link_active_adapter/

The adapter doesn't have a separate USB type A power connection because it can get USB power from the USB-C port.

 

If you want to save your USB-C port for something else, then they have a DisplayPort version. Remember, any DisplayPort to Dual Link DVI adapter should have a separate USB type A connection for extra power because the conversion process requires more power than DisplayPort can provide by itself - otherwise the adapter would probably be single link.

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On 1/22/2020 at 6:24 AM, joevt said:

I'm waiting for someone to post results of the following commands to prove it.

I've received AGDCDiagnose info from someone with a Blackmagic eGPU (contains Radeon Pro 580 which does not support the DSC mode of the XDR display). It shows dual HBR3 connection from the Radeon Pro 580 to the Apple Pro Display XDR (this can be done only through Thunderbolt 3 since the Blackmagic eGPU has no other method to connect to the display). The EDID vendor/product is APPAE2E. This is the first I've seen having the ae2e product ID - it is also the largest because it has both the tile info/timings (tiled 5K and 6K) and the 4K, 5K, and 6K non tiled timings (7 EDID blocks total).

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I believe that I can't use 2560x1440 + 144hz + g-sync on my external monitor because my notebook port is USB 3.1 Gen. 2 Type-C with bandwidth up to 10 Gbps or am I wrong?

My monitor is the dell s2716dg and I use the display port cable to connect to the Dell DA300 adapter to connect to the Type-C port on the Asus ROG Zephyrus G GA502.

I currently have this connection at 2560x1440 + 120Hz. I would love to use g-sync for that would have to have a Thunderbolt 3 port with 40 Gbps?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
9 hours ago, Henrique1987 said:

I believe that I can't use 2560x1440 + 144hz + g-sync on my external monitor because my notebook port is USB 3.1 Gen. 2 Type-C with bandwidth up to 10 Gbps or am I wrong?

My monitor is the dell s2716dg and I use the display port cable to connect to the Dell DA300 adapter to connect to the Type-C port on the Asus ROG Zephyrus G GA502.

I currently have this connection at 2560x1440 + 120Hz. I would love to use g-sync for that would have to have a Thunderbolt 3 port with 40 Gbps?

USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 ports are usually connected to the Intel integrated graphics, which don't support G-Sync.

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Hi All,

4K LG TV - UJ632T

Connected to GTX 1050 TI

Wishes to use Output Color Format: YCbCr444 at 10bpc or more.

Tip from Nvidia Control Panel: Using higher output death can help you to display colors with higher quality, especially for smooth color transitions and gradients. 
Question:

1) Is my games and movies gonna look better with 444 at 10bpc or 444 at 8 bpc. Is there any concern here?

Reason i am asking if there's a slight difference with HDMI cables

Premium HDMI cables can only do 444 at 8bpc (See attached Table)

Ultra HDMI cables can do 444 at 10bpc or 12 bpc. (See attached Table)

Please correct me if i am wrong that it changing the cables would result in better picture quality. If so, i will need to purchase Ultra cables as i am using Premium and high speed ones now. 

8bpc.jpg

chart.jpg

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Posted · Original PosterOP
5 minutes ago, Zallos said:

Hi All,

4K LG TV - UJ632T

Connected to GTX 1050 TI

Wishes to use Output Color Format: YCbCr444 at 10bpc or more.

Tip from Nvidia Control Panel: Using higher output death can help you to display colors with higher quality, especially for smooth color transitions and gradients. 
Question:

1) Is my games and movies gonna look better with 444 at 10bpc or 444 at 8 bpc. Is there any concern here?

Reason i am asking if there's a slight difference with HDMI cables

Premium HDMI cables can only do 444 at 8bpc (See attached Table)

Ultra HDMI cables can do 444 at 10bpc or 12 bpc. (See attached Table)

Please correct me if i am wrong that it changing the cables would result in better picture quality. If so, i will need to purchase Ultra cables as i am using Premium and high speed ones now. 

You graphics card supports HDMI 2.0, which has a maximum of 18 Gbit/s. Higher formats are only possible with HDMI 2.1 support.

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Question: RTX cards does not support HDMI 2.1 yet. How is anyone doing 444 at 10bpc or 12bpc now? sorry i am confused.

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This website shows the chart which states that the Ultra HDMI cable can achieve 444 10 bpc and 12 bpc

See my edited post. sorry about that. 

So there's no point in getting new Ultra HDMI cables now. even with RTX card upgrades, i wont be able to do 444 10bpc and above.

Correct?

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Posted · Original PosterOP
1 minute ago, Zallos said:

This website shows the chart which states that the Ultra HDMI cable can achieve 444 10 bpc and 12 bpc

See my edited post. sorry about that. 

It can, if you have a graphics card that will transmit at that speed.

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So unless i get a display port 1.4 TV like the BFGD etc, i wont be able to achieve 444 bpc10. i got it now

Thanks Glenwing, appreciate your time in educating me. 
Godspeed

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1 hour ago, Glenwing said:

USB-C / Thunderbolt 3 ports are usually connected to the Intel integrated graphics, which don't support G-Sync.

 

When I connect through the HDMI port it uses the AMD card, but when it is through the type c port it connects to the nvidia card (dGPU)

At least that's what appears on the nvidia panel rs

1.PNG

2.PNG

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