Good options for 4port nic??

[Napalm360]

So im plannng in building a nas and vm server down the line and one of the parts i need advice on is NIC's.

Im looking for a decent 4 port gigabit card (anyone know good brands) and seeing them go on ebay for around £100 i thought might as well come here and ask

Mnay Thanks

J.Locke

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V4A91AA-HP-INTEL-ETHERNET-I350-T2-2PORT-1GB-NIC-V4A91AA-Enterprise-Computing-/311763881052?hash=item4896934c5c:g:eMAAAOSw5cNYWPp5

 

[Archeval]

question, are you going to be making large file transfers to/from your server? if so you might benefit more from 10GbE than 1GbE

 

if you're willing to there's some SFP+ options for you that would be pretty reliable and fast

 

i'll list some parts here just to give out some options, if you're not opposed to SFP+

 

https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgeswitch-16-xg/

 

733385-001 HP 10GB 2-Port PCI-Express x8 571SFP+ Network Interface Card

 

Cisco Direct attach cable - Twinaxial 3.3 ft

2m (6.6') Amphenol 10GbE SFP+ Direct Attach Passive Copper Cable

 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Archeval
parts

[Napalm360]

4 hours ago, Archeval said:

question, are you going to be making large file transfers to/from your server? if so you might benefit more from 10GbE than 1GbE

 

if you're willing to there's some SFP+ options for you that would be pretty reliable and fast

 

i'll list some parts here just to give out some options, if you're not opposed to SFP+

 

https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgeswitch-16-xg/

 

733385-001 HP 10GB 2-Port PCI-Express x8 571SFP+ Network Interface Card

 

Cisco Direct attach cable - Twinaxial 3.3 ft

2m (6.6') Amphenol 10GbE SFP+ Direct Attach Passive Copper Cable

 

Thanks for the reply, im quite new to servers and networking stuff, as im only 15, 10gb/s is too expensive and i was looking at pairing the gigabit ports to get 2gb/s. i wont be doing HUGE Transfers (is 3-5GB huge?) between machines as its going to serve as a backup mostly and a storage for my videos in which i might get a render farm further down the road.

Also what are the benefits of SFP+ Over cat6e ethernet?? as ethernet would be cheaper than getting SFP+ as my router is downstairs and My parents would kill me if i put a rack under there

Many thanks

[AnonymousGuy]

NIC teaming doesn't really work for computer - computer.  AT least last I looked into it, consumer Windows doesn't support alternate-packet teaming.

[Napalm360]

6 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

NIC teaming doesn't really work for computer - computer.  AT least last I looked into it, consumer Windows doesn't support alternate-packet teaming.

OK, that sucks then.

MY Nas partlist that I'm thinking about

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/qxjKkT

 

Thanks for the advice also How much do drives tend to use as if I add four of them would I need a 750w PSU ? I plan to add 4 also should I get an m-atx board and get a raid card then

 

Thanks

 

[Napalm360]

8 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

NIC teaming doesn't really work for computer - computer.  AT least last I looked into it, consumer Windows doesn't support alternate-packet teaming.

If I were to get a render farm, could I do teaming between the NAS And Render server? (With Ethernet or SFP±)

[Napalm360]

22 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

NIC teaming doesn't really work for computer - computer.  AT least last I looked into it, consumer Windows doesn't support alternate-packet teaming.

OK, that sucks then.

MY Nas partlist that I'm thinking about

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/qxjKkT

 

Thanks for the advice also How much do drives tend to use as if I add slot of them would I need a 750w PSU ? I plan to add 4 also should I get an m-atx board and get a raid card then

 

Thanks

 

[Archeval]

per 3.5" drive you're looking at 6 to 10W of power consumption depending on the type and maker of hard drive so 550W should be good for what you have listed, unless you start adding lots of drives to it then i would suggest a 600W+ PSU

[AnonymousGuy]

21 minutes ago, Napalm360 said:

OK, that sucks then.

MY Nas partlist that I'm thinking about

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/qxjKkT

 

Thanks for the advice also How much do drives tend to use as if I add four of them would I need a 750w PSU ? I plan to add 4 also should I get an m-atx board and get a raid card then

 

Thanks

 

Don't go overboard.  5GB files gigabit networking is fine, for 4 drives I would use Mobo raid and not a dedicated card.  Only if you get past 8 drives would I say you need to start worrying about their power consumption.  Specifically the spin-up power consumption can get crazy.  800W for my 26 drives for the first couple seconds.

[Napalm360]

 

10 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Don't go overboard.  5GB files gigabit networking is fine, for 4 drives I would use Mobo raid and not a dedicated card.  Only if you get past 8 drives would I say you need to start worrying about their power consumption.  Specifically the spin-up power consumption can get crazy.  800W for my 26 drives for the first couple seconds.

Brilliant thanks allot, last question, anyone give me advice on learning networking like how the devices interact and such

 

Many thanks

[mariushm]

There's two things you have to keep in mind when dealing with regular hard drives.

 

1. When they turn on from being fully off, they'll use a bit more power than average from 12v for a few seconds. This is because the motor has to start spinning the platters and it battles friction and inertia and other things. So for example, a hard drive may be rated for maximum 12v at 0.6A (see label of hard drive) or around 7w from 12v rails, but for a few seconds when it starts it may use up to 2A or about 20 watts. 

There's a workaround for this, a lot of motherboards and sata controllers have staggered spin-up function, where the sata controller starts hard drives one at a time, with a couple of seconds between each hard drive spin up. This way, instead of let's say 10 hard drives starting up at the same time using up to 200-250 watts for a few seconds, you'll have up to around 2-3 hard drives at a time starting up, using up to 50w, but for a longer period of time, let's say about 10-15 seconds. This means your system boots up slower, but the power supply is less stressed and pulls less power from the mains at any point (and for example, it's better when you have 20-40 servers in a rack sharing a 2500 watt mains cable, if all systems are powered up at same time, they won't overload the mains cable)

 

2. Most modern computer power supplies produce 5v and 3.3v using DC-DC converters powered from the 12v rail. The amount of current these DC-DC converters can produce is fairly limited, usually at around 20-25A for each of these two voltages.

In addition, both 5v and 3.3v DC-DC converters are usually provided with a budget of around 120 watts from 12v, while both 3.3v and 5v can go up to 20-30A of current in total the power is limited.

So for example, if your system uses 5A from 3.3v or in other words around 15w (let's say you have a m.2 SSD and some onboard stuff on the motherboard uses 3.3v) , that means there's a budget of about 100 watts left for 5v, or about 20A.

The motherboard (chipset, onboard audio, network, usb 3 controllers, usb devices like keyboard and mouse and other crap) may use about 5A, so you're left with around 15A on the 5v rails.

A regular mechanical hard drive will use about 0.5-0.8A of current from 5v, and since almost all is used by the electronics on the hard drive, this is fairly constant consumption which doesn't go up or down...  so in that 15A of 5v budget, you'd be able to fit in about 15 A / 0.8a = ~ 18 hard drives.

 

So yeah, the idea is that you could have a 1000 watts power supply, which in theory can provide 800 watts on 12v, with 10 watts for each drive for motor so you'd be able to power the motors for 80 hard drives, in real world you'd be limited by the 5v capability of the power supply.

 

A quality 520-600w bronze efficiency power supply will be enough for 20-24 hard drives. Anything higher won't allow you to run more hard drives due to the 5v current limitation. The 520-600w is powerful enough to handle all hard drives starting at the same time, if you don't like staggered spin-up mechanisms, and it's just the right mix of 12v current and 5v current

It's better to go with multiple such power supplies to have more 5v current.

 

A 40$ (after rebate) SeaSonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W can do 24A on 5V, which means you'd have about 18-20A of current on 5v only for mechanical hard drives, so you'd be able to power about 20-25 hard drives from it easily. 

 

An alternative would be to spend about 60-90$ on a high current 5v only industrial power supply to add to an existing ATX power supply, and build you own SATA cables with 5v coming from the industrial power supply and the 12v from the ATX power supply.

For example, this 56$ power supply can output 60A of current at 5v, which is good enough for about 50 hard drives, with an efficiency of around 75% (a bit less than 80+bronze standard) : http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/delta-electronics/PMT-5V350W1AM/1145-1081-ND/4386552

You'd need a 750w+ power supply just for 12v for so many hard drives, but still it would be more safer to go with two 520-650w power supplies instead of just one.

 

 

 

[Napalm360]

57 minutes ago, mariushm said:

There's two things you have to keep in mind when dealing with regular hard drives.

 

1. When they turn on from being fully off, they'll use a bit more power than average from 12v for a few seconds. This is because the motor has to start spinning the platters and it battles friction and inertia and other things. So for example, a hard drive may be rated for maximum 12v at 0.6A (see label of hard drive) or around 7w from 12v rails, but for a few seconds when it starts it may use up to 2A or about 20 watts. 

There's a workaround for this, a lot of motherboards and sata controllers have staggered spin-up function, where the sata controller starts hard drives one at a time, with a couple of seconds between each hard drive spin up. This way, instead of let's say 10 hard drives starting up at the same time using up to 200-250 watts for a few seconds, you'll have up to around 2-3 hard drives at a time starting up, using up to 50w, but for a longer period of time, let's say about 10-15 seconds. This means your system boots up slower, but the power supply is less stressed and pulls less power from the mains at any point (and for example, it's better when you have 20-40 servers in a rack sharing a 2500 watt mains cable, if all systems are powered up at same time, they won't overload the mains cable)

 

2. Most modern computer power supplies produce 5v and 3.3v using DC-DC converters powered from the 12v rail. The amount of current these DC-DC converters can produce is fairly limited, usually at around 20-25A for each of these two voltages.

In addition, both 5v and 3.3v DC-DC converters are usually provided with a budget of around 120 watts from 12v, while both 3.3v and 5v can go up to 20-30A of current in total the power is limited.

So for example, if your system uses 5A from 3.3v or in other words around 15w (let's say you have a m.2 SSD and some onboard stuff on the motherboard uses 3.3v) , that means there's a budget of about 100 watts left for 5v, or about 20A.

The motherboard (chipset, onboard audio, network, usb 3 controllers, usb devices like keyboard and mouse and other crap) may use about 5A, so you're left with around 15A on the 5v rails.

A regular mechanical hard drive will use about 0.5-0.8A of current from 5v, and since almost all is used by the electronics on the hard drive, this is fairly constant consumption which doesn't go up or down...  so in that 15A of 5v budget, you'd be able to fit in about 15 A / 0.8a = ~ 18 hard drives.

 

So yeah, the idea is that you could have a 1000 watts power supply, which in theory can provide 800 watts on 12v, with 10 watts for each drive for motor so you'd be able to power the motors for 80 hard drives, in real world you'd be limited by the 5v capability of the power supply.

 

A quality 520-600w bronze efficiency power supply will be enough for 20-24 hard drives. Anything higher won't allow you to run more hard drives due to the 5v current limitation. The 520-600w is powerful enough to handle all hard drives starting at the same time, if you don't like staggered spin-up mechanisms, and it's just the right mix of 12v current and 5v current

It's better to go with multiple such power supplies to have more 5v current.

 

A 40$ (after rebate) SeaSonic S12II 520 Bronze 520W can do 24A on 5V, which means you'd have about 18-20A of current on 5v only for mechanical hard drives, so you'd be able to power about 20-25 hard drives from it easily. 

 

An alternative would be to spend about 60-90$ on a high current 5v only industrial power supply to add to an existing ATX power supply, and build you own SATA cables with 5v coming from the industrial power supply and the 12v from the ATX power supply.

For example, this 56$ power supply can output 60A of current at 5v, which is good enough for about 50 hard drives, with an efficiency of around 75% (a bit less than 80+bronze standard) : http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/delta-electronics/PMT-5V350W1AM/1145-1081-ND/4386552

You'd need a 750w+ power supply just for 12v for so many hard drives, but still it would be more safer to go with two 520-650w power supplies instead of just one.

 

 

 

Thank you very much I really appreciate the detailed response. I think I'll be fine with a 550w then

The motor spinup you where talking about Reminds me of the voltage spikes to the vcore when booting up

 

Many many thanks

 

 

 

[Archeval]

On 1/25/2017 at 2:49 PM, Napalm360 said:

 

Brilliant thanks allot, last question, anyone give me advice on learning networking like how the devices interact and such

 

Many thanks

there are many books and classes dedicated to this and if you want to learn the basics of networking on your own i would recommend starting with the Network+ reading material if you're interested