US Supreme Court asked to define 'clothes'

[TopWargamer]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/court-asked-to-define-clothes/2013/11/04/42cbcc90-4588-11e3-a196-3544a03c2351_story.html?tid=sm_fb

 

 

Good to see that our Supreme Court is properly doing their job and are taking on the right court cases. 

[Sarcasm]

'Merica, always focusing on the important issues in the world. For example, oil.

 

MY BAD, they were "protecting" Iraq.

[TechTheWorld]

'Merica, always focusing on the important issues in the world. For example, oil.

 

MY BAD, they were "protecting" Iraq.

Word.

[Youbetternot]

Made dumb to a whole new level

[megadarkwood]

all I can say is "lul"

[91wow]

Word.

What word?

[orangecat]

I don't even care anymore about the US government. I know for a fact one day i'm going to die in a nuclear war so what do I care i can't stop it.

[Sarcasm]

What word?

Bird

 

[jezza39]

It might seem basic and stupid, but to be fair, if you touch someones clothing that they're wearing you're guilty of battery, if it's not clothing, then you aren't touching the perosn and there is no crime. These little definitions are what moves the common law forward

[ilikemacandpc]

I love the American justice system. Defining clothes. THE most pressing issue of all. 

[Youbetternot]

Bird

 

 

That ending when stewie got the gun

[mr moose]

Whilst I usually oppose silly union BS like this. In this case is actually a fair point.  If it is a compulsory part of their job to change into safety gear, then they are entitled to be paid from the moment they start.

 

Imagine if you were only being paid from the minute you sat down at the desk and not when you first entered the building and got your daily instructions from the boss 15 minutes earlier? Or what if you were a mechanic and you were only paid from the time you touched the customers car and not the time you put your overalls on and checked the daily job sheets?

[TechTheWorld]

What word?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=word

[Canoas]

Bird

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WNrx2jq184

I just knew someone would post that the moment I saw him ask.

 

 

 

Whilst I usually oppose silly union BS like this. In this case is actually a fair point.  If it is a compulsory part of their job to change into safety gear, then they are entitled to be paid from the moment they start.

 

Imagine if you were only being paid from the minute you sat down at the desk and not when you first entered the building and got your daily instructions from the boss 15 minutes earlier? Or what if you were a mechanic and you were only paid from the time you touched the customers car and not the time you put your overalls on and checked the daily job sheets?

Yeah, I don't think it's just wasting their time either, this can have a huge impact on the entire industry. Though I think it's the lawmakers fault for not being specific enough and I'm sure it'll be ruled against the workers. I mean, I don't see why they should get paid to put their "clothes" on but nurses and such won't.

[mr moose]

I just knew someone would post that the moment I saw him ask.

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't think it's just wasting their time either, this can have a huge impact on the entire industry. Though I think it's the lawmakers fault for not being specific enough and I'm sure it'll be ruled against the workers. I mean, I don't see why they should get paid to put their "clothes" on but nurses and such won't.

My understanding was that it was extra safety gear they had to change into at work, not like a uniform they put on in the morning. 

[Canoas]

My understanding was that it was extra safety gear they had to change into at work, not like a uniform they put on in the morning. 

You mean changing safety gear during work? I think it's like a uniform. If you have to change gear during work then I'm pretty sure that'd be covered.

 

I think the main issue comes down to this:

If it's all considered clothes and if your shift starts at 8am then by 8am you have to be ready to work with your clothes/gear.

If it's not considered cloths then you can arrive at 8am and change into your uniform after, so if they want you to be working at 8am then they'll be required to start paying you from 7:45 or something to give you time to change.

[mr moose]

You mean changing safety gear during work? I think it's like a uniform. If you have to change gear during work then I'm pretty sure that'd be covered.

 

I think the main issue comes down to this:

If it's all considered clothes and if your shift starts at 8am then by 8am you have to be ready to work with your clothes/gear.

If it's not considered cloths then you can arrive at 8am and change into your uniform after, so if they want you to be working at 8am then they'll be required to start paying you from 7:45 or something to give you time to change.

That's what I though the issue was. However I would argue that putting on fire retardant coats, boots and helmets as not being clothes but required safety gear. I would not see it any different to putting on harness if you were a rigger or a hazmat suit if you worked in a chemical/nuclear environment.

[wpirobotbuilder]

Just in case it went over everyone's head, the Justices don't seem interested in deciding this. Read the last section of the article.

[ofr057]

That's what I though the issue was. However I would argue that putting on fire retardant coats, boots and helmets as not being clothes but required safety gear. I would not see it any different to putting on harness if you were a rigger or a hazmat suit if you worked in a chemical/nuclear environment.

agreed, here in Australia it's refereed to as PPE (personal protection equipment) - your employer should supply it because the working condition cannot be improved to be deemed safe without ppe. I understand going to work already in your steal caps etc, but there at a foundry so they gotta wear alot more safety gear

[Canoas]

That's what I though the issue was. However I would argue that putting on fire retardant coats, boots and helmets as not being clothes but required safety gear. I would not see it any different to putting on harness if you were a rigger or a hazmat suit if you worked in a chemical/nuclear environment.

So if you start working at 8am does that mean you have to put on the hazmat suit before or after 8am?

And if you stop working at 5pm does that mean you have to take off your hazmat suit at 5 pm or at 5pm it already needs to be taken off?

[mr moose]

So if you start working at 8am does that mean you have to put on the hazmat suit before or after 8am?

I would argue that if wearing these suits are a compulsory condition of work, then you should be paid for that time it takes to suit up.  Otherwise you are not being paid to carry out what is essentially a compulsory component of your job.  In other words if they want you to start cleaning the coking jets at 8, and it takes 15 minutes to suit up, then they should pay you from 7:45.

 

EDIT: similarly if it takes 15 min. to un-suit then they should pay you till 15 minutes after they want work to finish to un-suit. 

[Canoas]

I would argue that if wearing these suits are a compulsory condition of work, then you should be paid for that time it takes to suit up.  Otherwise you are not being paid to carry out what is essentially a compulsory component of your job.  In other words if they want you to start cleaning the coking jets at 8, and it takes 15 minutes to suit up, then they should pay you from 7:45.

 

EDIT: similarly if it takes 15 min. to un-suit then they should pay you till 15 minutes after they want work to finish to un-suit. 

But why is it any different from other jobs? A surgeon cannot perform his duties with regular clothes or the patient will most likely die with an infection, so it's not any less compulsory than protective gear.

[mr moose]

But why is it any different from other jobs? A surgeon cannot perform his duties with regular clothes or the patient will most likely die with an infection, so it's not any less compulsory than protective gear.

And a surgeon gets paid to put on their surgery gear. They don't put on their operating scrubs in the morning and drive into work. Nor do they get paid from the time they pick up a scalpel. 

[Canoas]

And a surgeon gets paid to put on their surgery gear. They don't put on their operating scrubs in the morning and drive into work. Nor do they get paid from the time they pick up a scalpel. 

But he does have to change clothes the moment he gets to the hospital, the surgical scrubs are just gowns they put over their regular scrubs.

[AlwaysFSX]

What word?

Define "word" for me.