So let's talk about the punch (please thread carefully)

[Quinnbeast]

1 hour ago, CDHoward said:

You do realise that allowing 100's of millions of Muslim and black hordes into our nations has crippled our economy, pride, safety, identity, NHS, housing and future, right?

 

Oh dear. *deep breath* I'm probably wasting my time here, but -

 

More than 87% of the UK population is "White British". The failure of the NHS, the economy and the lack of housing was primarily the fault of a late 70s early / 80s Tory government (and more recently Labour) that has systematically sold off council housing, failed to correctly fund and support the NHS, and has allowed the majority of modern infrastructure and investment to be centered in and around London - all to the determent of the entire north of England (and the rest of the UK). The white man is clearly to blame for the failing of the UK, and England along with it. The sooner you realise that, the sooner you'll be able to act on it accordingly and stop blaming people based on skin pigmentation.

 

The important word in your quote there is "pride". You group it in among tangible notions of health and economy, as if to somehow make it a similarly quantifiable issue. Pride. Loss of Empire. Descent in to mediocrity. Much of which is understandable up to a point, and yet the "poor white sidelined western male" routine is just excruciating.

 

"According to the Office for National Statistics, there were approximately 64.6 million people living in the UK in mid-2014. Of these, 56.2 million (87.2 per cent) were White British."

 

http://www.irr.org.uk/research/statistics/ethnicity-and-religion/

 

Also, you seem quite happy to talk about whites in the USA "building the entire nation from scratch" without so much as a hint of irony. So, no slavery? At all? In the UK or USA? Either you're a master of satire, or master of your own delusion.

[Majestic]

22 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

I don't agree with the things that dude says, but unless he's inciting violence, why hurt him? 

If he's explicitly enciting violence, for example the call for all <group> to be killed or attacked, he's breaking the law. You forward the tweet or recording to the police and leave your hands off him. This rethoric you're peddling is not far removed from actual witchhunting, where people decide wether someone is 'evil' or inciting for violence. 

 

I don't want the public to start deciding what a call for violence is, or isn't. I don't want mob rule or lynchmobs. We have a justice department for this. And here we come to the grand problem with this entire shitshow. Millenials wanting to abolish every institution we've built for whatever reason they feel is justified. Justice systems, electoral voting systems, law enforcement, etc. All the while complaining how it is trump who will set us back to the stoneage. 

 

10 minutes ago, Quinnbeast said:

Also, you seem quite happy to talk about whites in the USA "building the entire nation from scratch" without so much as a hint of irony. So, no slavery? At all? In the UK or USA? Either you're a master of satire, or master of your own delusion.

Slavery was illegal since 1808, the industrial revolution only started in 1812. No, slavery didn't build the United states as it is now. At all. Can I also add it was white people that ended slavery aswell. This whole 'reperation' schtick has got to stop at some point.

[MrDynamicMan]

1 hour ago, Mug said:

If how you represented his opinions is true, I don't like them but no-one deserves to be punched for their beliefs at all.

Hitler, stalin.

[stconquest]

I had a friend I grew up with that was often violent.  One day during a soccer game he decided to start physically harassing the opponents.  By the second half the opposite team grew tired of it and jumped him.  They kicked, punched... beat him a bit.  I did not even consider stopping it.  I looked for my brother, then my cousin to make sure they were fine and proceeded to step away from the action.

 

I won't lose any sleep over Spencer being punched.  It was wrong to do.  Seeing the loudmouth with fear in his eyes was unnervingly satisfying.

 

People are dumb, we are all dumb.  If you target groups of people for discrimination in the public sphere, some of the dumber people you target might hurt you.

 

Let the cops deal with the assailant, that is their job.

[Kobathor]

17 minutes ago, Majestic said:

If he's explicitly enciting violence, for example the call for all <group> to be killed or attacked, he's breaking the law. You forward the tweet or recording to the police and leave your hands off him. This rethoric you're peddling is not far removed from actual witchhunting, where people decide wether someone is 'evil' or inciting for violence. 

 

I don't want the public to start deciding what a call for violence is, or isn't. I don't want mob rule or lynchmobs. We have a justice department for this. And here we come to the grand problem with this entire shitshow. Millenials wanting to abolish every institution we've built for whatever reason they feel is justified. Justice systems, electoral voting systems, law enforcement, etc. All the while complaining how it is trump who will set us back to the stoneage. 

what lol

I meant like if he's running around punching people because they are not white, and somebody punches him back. Not with speech. Inciting violence by attacking people physically. chill dude

[Majestic]

2 minutes ago, Kobathor said:

what lol

I meant like if he's running around punching people because they are not white, and somebody punches him back. Not with speech. Inciting violence by attacking people physically. chill dude

rephrasing what i said is not an argument.

 

Self defense, especially recorded on tape, is not illegal (unless you use needless or excessive force). I don't see how this could not be solved by a court of law.

[Kobathor]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

rephrasing what i said is not an argument.

 

Self defense, especially recorded on tape, is not illegal (unless you use needless or excessive force). I don't see how this could not be solved by a court of law.

what are you talking about?

[Mug]

30 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Slavery was illegal since 1808, the industrial revolution only started in 1812. No, slavery didn't build the United states as it is now. At all. Can I also add it was white people that ended slavery aswell. This whole 'reperation' schtick has got to stop at some point.

The Industrial Revolution was from c1750-c1840 (at least in Britain, we were the first after all (shameless brag))

 

EDIT: Sorry to add this though but the industrial revolution in Britain was fuelled by a different type of slavery - one that didn't end (for us at least) until India became independent in the '50s. Thing is that one can't possibly fathom how important slavery was to America and Britain in those days, it's a debt that cannot be repaid (imo).

 

24 minutes ago, MrDynamicMan said:

Hitler, stalin.

Their actions deserved to be punished, not their beliefs.

[Majestic]

1 minute ago, Kobathor said:

what are you talking about?

I could ask you the same thing. How is your proposition remotely related to the question at hand. The premise was; Is it ok to phsyically attack someone for their words/opinion.

 

Not: Is self-defense warrented. 

[2FA]

8 minutes ago, Mug said:

The Industrial Revolution was from c1750-c1840 (at least in Britain, we were the first after all (shameless brag))

I'm also confused as to why he stated when the UK abolished slavery it somehow related to the US being built which didn't abolish slavery until 1865.

[Mug]

Just now, DeadEyePsycho said:

I'm also confused as to why he stated when the UK abolished slavery it somehow related to the US being built which didn't abolish slavery until 1865.

ehh, it's the internet. Anything to win an argument, right?

[Quinnbeast]

57 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Slavery was illegal since 1808, the industrial revolution only started in 1812. No, slavery didn't build the United states as it is now. At all. Can I also add it was white people that ended slavery aswell. This whole 'reperation' schtick has got to stop at some point.

 

Only the importing of slaves was made illegal in 1808, but the domestic slave trade combined with illegal import grew continually up until it was formally abolished in 1865. There were in fact 3.9 million slaves as of 1860. African-Americans have been free citizens in the USA for less time than they were enslaved. Either way, quoting dates doesn't change the big picture here. Historical events do not happen in a vacuum, so to say that the USA "as it is now" as if a separate entity is misleading. Many of the early industrial-era investments came from the agricultural profits of wealthy land (and slave) owners.

 

You were the one that brought up the issue of reperation. Surely it's important to continue talking about historical slavery as and when it's contextually correct to do so? Otherwise you just appear to be shying away from it.

[plsno]

I can't say I support sucker punching people because you don't like them. Maybe if he was attacking or instigating someone I could.

[Misanthrope]

2 hours ago, stconquest said:

I had a friend I grew up with that was often violent.  One day during a soccer game he decided to start physically harassing the opponents.  By the second half the opposite team grew tired of it and jumped him.  They kicked, punched... beat him a bit.  I did not even consider stopping it.  I looked for my brother, then my cousin to make sure they were fine and proceeded to step away from the action.

 

I won't lose any sleep over Spencer being punched.  It was wrong to do.  Seeing the loudmouth with fear in his eyes was unnervingly satisfying.

 

People are dumb, we are all dumb.  If you target groups of people for discrimination in the public sphere, some of the dumber people you target might hurt you.

 

Let the cops deal with the assailant, that is their job.

Name one time Spencer physically harassed his political opponents.

 

This is a pretty damn false equivalency and quite pointless to the topic at hand.

[stconquest]

12 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Name one time Spencer physically harassed his political opponents.

 

This is a pretty damn false equivalency and quite pointless to the topic at hand.

It would be false equivalency if equivalency was my argument.

 

" No but I wouldn't exactly stop it "

 

What happened to my childhood friend on the soccer field was also wrong... I just would not stop it... unless I noticed his life was in serious danger.

 

OMG a white supremacist got punched out... on noes.  Let's look at the bigger picture here... oh wait... screw the bigger picture.  The bigger picture involves more than this idiot taking a punch; I don't really want to as I have Skyrim to sort out.

 

You want to play with people's lives in a negative way, then some of your targets might want to play with yours.  This is not fantasy land.  We are animals that don't inherently need to follow rules.  There are enough good and decent people being violently attacked and killed in this world.

 

This punch is practically insignificant. 

[Majestic]

2 hours ago, stconquest said:

I had a friend I grew up with that was often violent.  One day during a soccer game he decided to start physically harassing the opponents.  By the second half the opposite team grew tired of it and jumped him.  They kicked, punched... beat him a bit.  I did not even consider stopping it.  I looked for my brother, then my cousin to make sure they were fine and proceeded to step away from the action.

 

I won't lose any sleep over Spencer being punched.  It was wrong to do.  Seeing the loudmouth with fear in his eyes was unnervingly satisfying.

 

People are dumb, we are all dumb.  If you target groups of people for discrimination in the public sphere, some of the dumber people you target might hurt you.

 

Let the cops deal with the assailant, that is their job.

Cool story bro, except this has nothing to do with retaliatory actions. He was assaulted for having an opinion. However vile it may be, actions should be punished, not opinions.

 

You like the fear in his eyes, and you think spencer is the one that requires help? 

 

Some opinions are more likely to cause a stir, or uttered for the sole purpose of doing to. But expecting a violent outcome is inevitable or necessary is narrowminded at best. If you have to resort to violence to make your point, you have already lost the argument. 

 

The only correct thing you said. Now apply that to all the other things you said aswell.

[stconquest]

3 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Cool story bro, except this has nothing to do with retaliatory actions. He was assaulted for having an opinion. However vile it may be, actions should be punished, not opinions.

 

You like the fear in his eyes, and you think spencer is the one that requires help? 

 

Some opinions are more likely to cause a stir, or uttered for the sole purpose of doing to. But expecting a violent outcome is inevitable or necessary is narrowminded at best. If you have to resort to violence to make your point, you have already lost the argument. 

 

The only correct thing you said. Now apply that to all the other things you said aswell.

Read above. 

 

Unnervingly satisfying =/= like.

 

As the OP already questioned why I wrote what I wrote, why do you feel the need to attack the same subject matter when the answer is right above your post?

[Misanthrope]

57 minutes ago, stconquest said:

It would be false equivalency if equivalency was my argument.

I say it was: your friend was physically harassing somebody. Speech and political ideas, no matter how bad or incendiary, unless they openly and directly becomes a call to violence, are in no way, shape or form even on the same ballpark as physical violence.

 

EDIT: This joke has been officially redacted to appease stconquest.

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

I say it was: your friend was physically harassing somebody. Speech and political ideas, no matter how bad or incendiary, unless they openly and directly becomes a call to violence, are in no way shape of form even on the same ballpark as physical violence.

 

I am glad however that you think a punch is so insignificant, I shall keep that in mind in case you ever decide to attend a fan meet up.

lol, dude, was that a threat?!?

 

hah!  I would love it.

[Majestic]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

I say it was: your friend was physically harassing somebody. Speech and political ideas, no matter how bad or incendiary, unless they openly and directly becomes a call to violence, are in no way shape of form even on the same ballpark as physical violence.

 

I am glad however that you think a punch is so insignificant, I shall keep that in mind in case you ever decide to attend a fan meet up.

 

[stconquest]

These guys are too funny.  Acting like they take a high road to disguise their desire to go low. 

 

Folks, be honest with yourselves... don't be like these two. 

[Misanthrope]

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

lol, dude, was that a threat?!?

 

hah!  I would love it.

No no, remember that we're talking about direct calls to violence here. I am just giving friendly advise in commentary, like so:

 

 

[Majestic]

15 minutes ago, stconquest said:

What happened to my childhood friend on the soccer field was also wrong... I just would not stop it... unless I noticed his life was in serious danger.

 

OMG a white supremacist got punched out... on noes.  Let's look at the bigger picture here... oh wait... screw the bigger picture.  The bigger picture involves more than this idiot taking a punch; I don't really want to as I have Skyrim to sort out.

 

You want to play with people's lives in a negative way, then some of your targets might want to play with yours.  This is not fantasy land.  We are animals that don't inherently need to follow rules.  There are enough good and decent people being violently attacked and killed in this world.

 

This punch is practically insignificant. 

To be honest, your moral compass is so all over the place I wouldn't allow you to be the judge of that.

 

The bigger picture is mob rule, street justice and other unsavory practices that stem from this type of tribalism and disregard for justice systems.

 

No people who ignore in-place institutions and find it necessary to take justice into their own hands are the animals. In fact, even animals have more respect for hierarchy than these people. And what does unrelated violence and suffering have to do with anything, you're just a fucking treasure trove of fallacies and other deflections

 

Oh so public assault is insignificant. We should just all punch whomever we disagree with. Punching people "is just a meme" bro.

3 minutes ago, stconquest said:

These guys are too funny. 

And you are funny for your utter lack of self-awareness and self-reflection.

 

[stconquest]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

To be honest, your moral compass is so all over the place I wouldn't allow you to be the judge of that.

 

The bigger picture is mob rule, street justice and other unsavory practices that stem from this type of tribalism and disregard for justice systems.

 

No people who ignore in-place institutions and find it necessary to take justice into their own hands are the animals. In fact, even animals have more respect for hierarchy than these people. And what does unrelated violence and suffering have to do with anything, you're just a fucking treasure trove of fallacies and other deflections

 

Oh so public assault is insignificant. We should just all punch whomever we disagree with. Punching people "is just a meme" bro.

In the USA, criminal violence does not begin or end with this punch... it is practically insignificant.

 

Stop picking fights with someone that does exist.  The manner that you paint what I said is disingenuous.

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, stconquest said:

In the USA, criminal violence does not begin or end with this punch... it is practically insignificant.

 

Stop picking fights with someone that does exist.  The manner that you paint what I said is disingenuous.

It would be without previous actions like these as historical context.