Do you believe in a god?

[Corbyn Trumbley]

1 minute ago, DeadEyePsycho said:

If that is only true for the existence of a god but no other claim, then I would say no.

Let me try to explain a bit, wouldn't you agree that societies of people, from many different cultures, have always looked to some sort of "being" that is higher than them? This may not be a "god" so to speak, but different groups of people have always sought this idea of a "ruler" (whatever that may be). So given that as humans, we are capable of imagining such a being, wouldn't that prove the existence of some sort of "god"?

[Gix7Fifty]

Yes, and he had a son named Jesus Christ. King of the Jews.

[Godlygamer23]

13 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

Doesn't the fact that even the idea of there being a God prove the very existence of one?

What is your reasoning for that conclusion?

[2FA]

4 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

Let me try to explain a bit, wouldn't you agree that societies of people, from many different cultures, have always looked to some sort of "being" that is higher than them? This may not be a "god" so to speak, but different groups of people have always sought this idea of a "ruler" (whatever that may be). So given that as humans, we are capable of imagining such a being, wouldn't that prove the existence of some sort of "god"?

There have been roughly 2500 different versions of some sort god, many of which are very different and many that were worshiped in groups such as the Greek pantheon. Not all saw this as an idea of a ruler, for example Shinto is the Japanese worship of spirits and is a form of animism. I personally see the idea of gods as an attempt to explain the unknown, especially in the past when our knowledge was much more limited.

[PCn00b3000]

2 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

What is your reasoning for that conclusion?

We all want something to believe in, something that's higher and more in-control than ourselves. Some believe it's fate, the natural order of things or a deity of sorts. Whatever it may be, we all hold something that keeps the rest of our beliefs in sync. If humans were not created by a god, then science and chance are our backup to explain why everything is the way it is. The same goes with believers in a deity and so on

[Corbyn Trumbley]

5 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

What is your reasoning for that conclusion?

If you want to read more into it, this is based on Gödel's ontological proof.

[Godlygamer23]

1 minute ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

If you want to read more into it, this is based on Gödel's ontological proof.

All it proves is that humans can create concepts. 

[kingkickolas]

2 hours ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Faith is a huge part of my life; science and G-d coincide within myself, but any scientific theory or idea that conflicts with anything G-d said is something that I don't buy into or consider to be factual. 

Surely you're aware that what you've described is the opposite of science. You simply can't have it both ways. 

 

On top of that, we don't actually have anything God said. This is perhaps except Joseph Smith's subsequently-lost tablets, and the stones of the Ten Commandments, also lost (or perhaps hiding in Ethiopia). Everything else is written by (fallible) humans.

 

1 hour ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Things that I believe will never make sense to anyone who only critically analyses things without also understanding that the religion I practice requires faith and living by it. We as the human race will never have the answers to every possible thing in the world, so perhaps we were never meant to. For things out of our control, we have no choice but to hope and believe those things will work out. For me, there has always been a deity who controls things outside of our reach.

I can't explain it, but I feel peace in knowing that the balance of nature is held in the palm of a perfect being who cares for His creation.

It is possible to critically analyze things and understand that other people don't. However, all that you demonstrate by pointing this out is that you've chosen not to think critically about some of your beliefs. In other words, you only advertise yourself as capable of believing anything, so long as you sacrifice your thinking faculties.

 

And lastly, you only demonstrate another fallacy by claiming that a belief is justified if it makes you feel good to believe it. Sorry, but that's just a horrible way to be deciding what is true.

 

[Godlygamer23]

4 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

We all want something to believe in, something that's higher and more in-control than ourselves. Some believe it's fate, the natural order of things or a deity of sorts. Whatever it may be, we all hold something that keeps the rest of our beliefs in sync. If humans were not created by a god, then science and chance are our backup to explain why everything is the way it is. The same goes with believers in a deity and so on

Some assumptions there, but as far as what science deals with, my beliefs are molded around data and evidence. But even dealing with science, at this point we are at the mercy of the natural world. Our technological state is not high enough in order to control things in a predictable manner, like the weather, asteroids, etc. 

[kingkickolas]

30 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

Doesn't the fact that even the idea of there being a God prove the very existence of one?

 

 

22 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

Let me try to explain a bit, wouldn't you agree that societies of people, from many different cultures, have always looked to some sort of "being" that is higher than them? This may not be a "god" so to speak, but different groups of people have always sought this idea of a "ruler" (whatever that may be). So given that as humans, we are capable of imagining such a being, wouldn't that prove the existence of some sort of "god"?

Unfortunately, that argument also proves the existence of unicorns, leprechauns, and Narnia. So... no.

 

12 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

If you want to read more into it, this is based on Gödel's ontological proof.

That's really not the gist of Gödel's argument. 

[Samtell]

no, ever since 7th grade when I learned about other religions, and studied science. I don't even know if I'm alive or not.

[PCn00b3000]

3 minutes ago, kingkickolas said:

Surely you're aware that what you've described is the opposite of science. You simply can't have it both ways. 

 

On top of that, we don't actually have anything God said. This is perhaps except Joseph Smith's subsequently-lost tablets, and the stones of the Ten Commandments, also lost (or perhaps hiding in Ethiopia). Everything else is written by (fallible) humans.

 

It is possible to critically analyze things and understand that other people don't. However, all that you demonstrate by pointing this out is that you've chosen not to think critically about some of your beliefs. In other words, you only advertise yourself as capable of believing anything, so long as you sacrifice your thinking faculties.

 

And lastly, you only demonstrate another fallacy by claiming that a belief is justified if it makes you feel good to believe it. Sorry, but that's just a horrible way to be deciding what is true.

 

I've done my fair share of questioning my beliefs when my parents brought me to church and explained it to me while I was growing up and couldn't come to terms with anything I came up with. 

 

You can't understand what anyone believes if you don't take their foundation into consideration. If you find the Bible to be a farce, there's no point in explaining its contents. You cannot understand my lifestyle choices without the later, etc, etc.

 

Life by FAITH is what I'm going to stand by. I've lived as those without it and its a miserable existence. With faith, I don't need all the answers or need every point in our existence to be explained with facts. I'm contempt with the way things are and shall be, because I believe there's more than this world. 

 

The Bible is the inspired word of G-d, given to us by His words, archived by man. His words on our human stones, scrolls, paper and LCD screens. If someone the Lord chose to write His words perverted them, He wouldn't have chosen them in the first place lol 

 

Critically analyzing things are in-quantifiable as religion (in my case, relationship with my heavenly Father) won't get anyone far enough in the attempt of understanding it. Trust me mate, I've tried. All that comes out of doing that is more questions  

[PCn00b3000]

10 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Some assumptions there, but as far as what science deals with, my beliefs are molded around data and evidence. But even dealing with science, at this point we are at the mercy of the natural world. Our technological state is not high enough in order to control things in a predictable manner, like the weather, asteroids, etc. 

Living in faith.... Faith.... FAITH. Believing in something with the threat of death is a powerful notion, whether the person is in the wrong or right. Are you willing to perish for what you believe is right? 

[Godlygamer23]

1 minute ago, PCn00b3000 said:

Are you willing to perish for what you believe is right? 

Yes. But what I accept as fact will change as science changes its position on various topics. 

[Corbyn Trumbley]

Another interesting article, written by a former atheist, reads:

 

"I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

 

I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us."

[stconquest]

2 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Yes. But what I accept as fact will change as science changes its position on various topics. 

Why are you willing to parish for your beliefs?  =)  Do you need to?

 

The threat of death is available regardless of what you believe.  A problem we have not yet solved.

 

...anyways, don't mind me... back to Skyrim. 

[Corbyn Trumbley]

5 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Yes. But what I accept as fact will change as science changes its position on various topics. 

Do you believe in absolute truth?

[PCn00b3000]

3 minutes ago, Godlygamer23 said:

Yes. But what I accept as fact will change as science changes its position on various topics. 

Perhaps it's only me, but I'm happier with putting my faith in something that'll outlast time or the human being. Something that won't change with human progress... I don't know, seems a bit too uncertain for me but I understand what you're saying ~

[Godlygamer23]

6 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

Do you believe in absolute truth?

Yes, but I don't accept what I see as absolute truth. I believe what the evidence points to. This goes for the existence of the universe(that is, I believe it's real), the shape of our planet, the existence of the planet itself, the brain, etc. 

 

It's certainly a possibility that everything that I experience is in my mind and no one but me exists. Or that I am not actually a human at all, but some sort of experiment that's in a tube along with other experiments, each experiencing their own form of "reality," whilst being stuck in their heads.

[SansVarnic]

12 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us.

Well said.

[kingkickolas]

10 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

I've done my fair share of questioning my beliefs when my parents brought me to church and explained it to me while I was growing up and couldn't come to terms with anything I came up with. 

 

You can't understand what anyone believes if you don't take their foundation into consideration. If you find the Bible to be a farce, there's no point in explaining its contents. You cannot understand my lifestyle choices without the later, etc, etc.

 

Life by FAITH is what I'm going to stand by. I've lived as those without it and its a miserable existence. With faith, I don't need all the answers or need every point in our existence to be explained with facts. I'm contempt with the way things are and shall be, because I believe there's more than this world. 

 

The Bible is the inspired word of G-d, given to us by His words, archived by man. His words on our human stones, scrolls, paper and LCD screens. If someone the Lord chose to write His words perverted them, He wouldn't have chosen them in the first place lol 

 

Critically analyzing things are in-quantifiable as religion (in my case, relationship with my heavenly Father) won't get anyone far enough in the attempt of understanding it. Trust me mate, I've tried. All that comes out of doing that is more questions  

The main fallacy you're committing here is that of presuming the conclusion (or "begging the question"). You presume to know that the Bible is perfect, but your only source of that information is the Bible. This reasoning is circular. If you were interested with the truth of your conclusions, you would seek to demonstrate the veracity of the Bible by historical means and methods. This, as you probably know, is not a very successful field.

 

2 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

Another interesting article, written by a former atheist, reads:

 

"I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

 

I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us."

This is one of the more pathetic attempts by theists to discourage critical analysis of their beliefs. We all know very well why people are so determined to challenge those beliefs. If not only for the sake of caring about what is true (a perfectly respectable aim), than for the great amount of damage (both physical and psychological) that these beliefs have caused, and continue to cause.

[stconquest]

20 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

Do you believe in absolute truth?

I'll bite.

 

No I don't believe in absolute truth.  I know there is an inherent/absolute truth to life, earth, and the rest of the universe.  This truth does not revolve around us, we are a part of it. 

 

Beliefs (faith) are what we use to investigate life.  Beliefs are partly (observation as well) the foundation for new scientific endeavors. It does not take long, in this time of available information, to realize that the universe does not revolve around us.  There is only a single central theme to our observable universe and we will probably never get to the original point in space to investigate.  Maybe God is there. 

[Godlygamer23]

14 minutes ago, Corbyn Trumbley said:

"I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

 

I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us."

This individual does something that doesn't apply to all atheists: They assume that all atheists are of the strong type, whereas many are weak atheists, such as myself. I am not claiming that God is not real, just like I don't claim unicorns are not real, or that fairies do not exist. I am not going to claim that Spider-Man doesn't exist, or that Batman doesn't exist. What I will claim is that the evidence of any of those is sorely lacking, but that fairies, unicorns, Spider-Man, and Batman could all exist on some planet billions of light years away from Earth. 

 

In regards to God, my stance remains the same. I consider evidence of God to be lacking, and the concept of infinity itself is a paradoxical one. 

 

What causes atheists to argue with people who believe in a deity? People who make definitive statements that their God is real. The burden of evidence does not lie upon skeptics. It lies squarely on the believers. 

 

"I didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue."

This is a claim that cannot be addressed. There is no evidence for this statement. 

[PCn00b3000]

1 minute ago, kingkickolas said:

The main fallacy you're committing here is that of presuming the conclusion (or "begging the question"). You presume to know that the Bible is perfect, but your only source of that information is the Bible. This reasoning is circular. If you were interested with the truth of your conclusions, you would seek to demonstrate the veracity of the Bible by historical means and methods. This, as you probably know, is not a very successful field.

 

This is one of the more pathetic attempts by theists to discourage critical analysis of their beliefs. We all know very well why people are so determined to challenge those beliefs. If not only for the sake of caring about what is true (a perfectly respectable aim), than for the great amount of damage (both physical and psychological) that these beliefs have caused, and continue to cause.

I'm a long-time believer that if you cannot handle having your beliefs challenged, then you truly don't stand by them. That goes for both sides. How many times shall I have to say that I believe the Bible is the spoken word of G-d by faith. I believe G-d created the heavens and the earth in faith. I believe we were created in G-d's image by faith. I know that Yeshua gave His life for the redemption of the same sin disobedience brought.

 

I and others who follow a similar faith don't need validation or any sort of acceptance for my beliefs because I live my life by faith. Not man-made facts (that are constantly being revised by the way), but by something a lot of people seem to be bothered by... Faith  I've always wondered why people are offended by the reality of this sort of mentality. 

[kingkickolas]

2 minutes ago, PCn00b3000 said:

I'm a long-time believer that if you cannot handle having your beliefs challenged, then you truly don't stand by them. That goes for both sides. How many times shall I have to say that I believe the Bible is the spoken word of G-d by faith. I believe G-d created the heavens and the earth in faith. I believe we were created in G-d's image by faith. I know that Yeshua gave His life for the redemption of the same sin disobedience brought.

 

I and others who follow a similar faith don't need validation or any sort of acceptance for my beliefs because I live my life by faith. Not man-made facts (that are constantly being revised by the way), but by something a lot of people seem to be bothered by... Faith  I've always wondered why people are offended by the reality of this sort of mentality. 

Right, I understand that you believe that. What I'm saying is that you have no justification for that belief. In other words, your belief in the existence and the acts of God are equally plausible as the existence of unicorns and Narnia. If you're comfortable with that standard of proof, well... let's just say I'd be embarrassed to admit that publicly. 

 

Sorry to say that man-made facts are the only facts we have, imperfect and improving as they are. All Biblical claims have either been proven not to be true, or not proven to be true (in fact, not even remotely hinted at being true).