New Lithium Ion battery developed that has built in fire extinguisher

[Master Disaster]

 

Researchers at Stanford University have developed a new battery that contains a fire extinguishing substance which is released should the battery overheat. In tests the substance called Triphenyl Phosphate has been able to extinguish a battery in 0.4 seconds.

Quote

Researchers have designed a lithium-ion battery that contains a fire-extinguishing material, which is released if the battery gets too hot.

 

Flame retardant triphenyl phosphate (TPP) sits inside a shell within the electrolyte fluid. The shell melts when the temperature reaches 150C (302F), releasing the chemical compound.

 

In tests, battery fires were extinguished in 0.4 seconds.

 

Lithium-ion batteries power many devices but are a known fire hazard.

 

The Stanford University research team's peer-reviewed paper has been published by the journal Science Advances.

 

Previous attempts to incorporate TPP inside batteries without the shell have hampered their performance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38637357

 

Pretty cool stuff, it came a little to late for Samsung's Note series however.

 

Anybody else see the irony in using phosphorus to extinguish fires?

[VerticalDiscussions]

 

Thats gonna be a feature, 2-3 years from now on flagships.

[tlink]

i don't really see the use for this in consumer devices. the design should prevent battery's from reaching this stage, its just going to take up space and money. i can see some applications where its usefull but definitly not in phones or anything handheld like that. maybe for industrial enviroments.

[LWorm]

Now if this could be implemented in EV packs without compromising the overall capacity and weight by a noticeable amount it could be very useful, assuming it could feasibly work with cylindrical cells.

[zMeul]

47 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Anybody else see the irony in using phosphorus to extinguish fires?

do you know how oil well fires are extinguished? by blowing them up

[Master Disaster]

8 hours ago, zMeul said:

do you know how oil well fires are extinguished? by blowing them up

Yeah, that's because C4 sucks all the oxygen out of the air as it detonates and without oxygen a fire can't burn.

 

I find things like that fascinating, taking something which is normally used for one thing and using it to do the reverse or something completely different.

 

8 hours ago, tlink said:

i don't really see the use for this in consumer devices. the design should prevent battery's from reaching this stage, its just going to take up space and money. i can see some applications where its usefull but definitly not in phones or anything handheld like that. maybe for industrial enviroments.

Sure, that's why the Note series is dead and there's hundreds of cases of other Galaxy phones and Apple phones spontaniously self combusting.

 

You can design as many failsafes as you like into a device, there's still nothing to stop the failsafe from failing.

[Linus_torvalds]

1 hour ago, VerticalDiscussions said:

 

Thats gonna be a feature, 2-3 years from now on flagships.

On androd yes, but on the iphones maybe in 10 years?

[Bouzoo]

2 minutes ago, mate_mate91 said:

On androd yes, but on the iphones maybe in 10 years?

*cough*

[Linus_torvalds]

8 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Yeah, that's because C4 sucks all the oxygen out of the air as it detonates and without oxygen a fire can't burn.

 

I find things like that fascinating, taking something which is normally used for one thing and using it to do the reverse or something completely different.

Yeah, that's pretty cool, how poison was/is used as medicine, and some disease is used to cure other disease...

 

7 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

*cough*

I mean that iphones add features that android had 3-4 years ago. LOL. Fuck, their "flagships" still have 720p displays and no 3.5 jack  and they still can't edit number while typing it, they must delete whole number and rewrite  I am not iphone fan, i hate apple for its prices and for dongles and for making stupid things, like making bad battery and then hiding remaining time indicator, or making as less ports as possible on "PRO" devices and so on.

[That Norwegian Guy]

Yeah no, the last thing phones need is something else to take away space for actual battery capacity. Until idiot designers stop trying to make phones you can slit your wrists with.

[Belgarathian]

We decreased your battery by 30% so it can now include a fire extinguisher in a all-new design that's 0.1mm thinner, and 2% lighter! Battery life will remain the same under light to moderate usage. - Apple. 

 

I'm an Apple fanboy and still know this will happen. 

[tlink]

23 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Sure, that's why the Note series is dead and there's hundreds of cases of other Galaxy phones and Apple phones spontaniously self combusting.

 

You can design as many failsafes as you like into a device, there's still nothing to stop the failsafe from failing.

thats because their quality control is shit. battery's have thermal fuses, you really don't need much more protection than that after venting of course. the note series is dead because samsung cut corners (or actually the lack thereoff), not because battery's are not safe enough. every other incident was isolated and due to weird circumstances or extreme user neglect (putting their phone in the sun at the hottest day since 30 years or something like that).

[Master Disaster]

2 hours ago, tlink said:

thats because their quality control is shit. battery's have thermal fuses, you really don't need much more protection than that after venting of course. the note series is dead because samsung cut corners (or actually the lack thereoff), not because battery's are not safe enough. every other incident was isolated and due to weird circumstances or extreme user neglect (putting their phone in the sun at the hottest day since 30 years or something like that).

And you acting like those things won't ever happen again.

[MadOne627]

This is cool and in certain things could be extremely useful. Unfortunately TPP is a toxic substance. It wouldn't hurt you if say your battery started on fire and the compound go on your skin, but if a bunch of these phones end up in the dump, this compound would mess with the local life. I would prefer the engineers design a fail safe into the battery, like how my car turns off if it gets to hot, then add a fire extinguisher to it. However I think in several engineering cases this could be used amazingly well. For example, electric car batteries would be great.

 

Since Electric car batteries have been known to burst into flames after collisions, they have been placed in the middle of these vehicles to prevent them from being damaged, however when the battery is damaged the localized batteries  quickly start a run away reaction leading to some huge flames. (this is why if you ever see an electric car in an accident, the fire department watches for a while to be sure it won't go up). If they were to put a whole bunch of these in the individual battery cells it could prevent this run away reaction from occurring leading to a safer vehicle.

[tlink]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

And you acting like those things won't ever happen again.

they will, but thats not the point. this isn't a practical solution. the note should never have passed regulatory tests in the first place, it didn't follow the correct safety precautions.

[Ryujin2003]

On 01/16/2017 at 10:32 AM, tlink said:

i don't really see the use for this in consumer devices. the design should prevent battery's from reaching this stage, its just going to take up space and money. i can see some applications where its usefull but definitly not in phones or anything handheld like that. maybe for industrial enviroments.

I disagree. This is brilliant, and will be great to add. Why? Because those of us with bombs in our pocket will feel better. And 0hone and electronic designers can charge more...

 

But seriously, aside from the Note 7 fiasco, I see an apple device every week in my shop with a battery expanding, and several near thermal events. Every battery expansion I've seen since working here Hass been apple

 my wife has had 2 Apple thermal events, one iPhone 3 and one iPhone 4.

 

I don't think this will take away from battery capacity. You're talking about a chemical reaction. Having yhe chemical release internally at a certain temperature will neutralize the internal chemicals. You can call it a fire extinguisher, but it's chemistry. Not too complex.

 

Samsung should adopt this because it would be great for them to care about customers. Apple won't adopt it. Why? If your battery has adopt thermal event, expands adopted breaks your device, you have to buy a new device because it's not apples fault, especially if it's apples feet the 1 year or Apple Care warranty period. If they adopted this, then they would replace the battery and call it a day. They make more money with forcing a consumer to purchase a new unit. But Apple would also need to put it in all of ther Macs, and that won't happen either.

[tlink]

29 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Because those of us with bombs in our pocket will feel better. And 0hone and electronic designers can charge more...

 

But seriously, aside from the Note 7 fiasco, I see an apple device every week in my shop with a battery expanding, and several near thermal events. Every battery expansion I've seen since working here Hass been apple

 my wife has had 2 Apple thermal events, one iPhone 3 and one iPhone 4.

 

I don't think this will take away from battery capacity. You're talking about a chemical reaction. Having yhe chemical release internally at a certain temperature will neutralize the internal chemicals. You can call it a fire extinguisher, but it's chemistry. Not too complex.

 

Samsung should adopt this because it would be great for them to care about customers. Apple won't adopt it. Why? If your battery has adopt thermal event, expands adopted breaks your device, you have to buy a new device because it's not apples fault, especially if it's apples feet the 1 year or Apple Care warranty period. If they adopted this, then they would replace the battery and call it a day. They make more money with forcing a consumer to purchase a new unit. But Apple would also need to put it in all of ther Macs, and that won't happen either.

so you think this is a great idea because electronics designers can charge more for their bad design in the first place? and there still has to be a chemical present. which by definition will take up space because you know, its a physical object that has to be stored somewhere in this physical world. again if designers didn't go beyond rated specifications none of this would ever happen. the only thing causing this is severe user neglect or severe designer neglect. yea lithium cells tend to swell near the end of their lifetime, they have always done this and there is always designed around this. its pretty fucking hard to actually set of a thermal event in modern lion battery's.

[Misanthrope]

Ok last time we managed to play with and contain explosions was the internal combustion engine.

 

The thing is: 400kg of motherfucking steel tend to be more resilient than 100kg of human flesh.

[Zodiark1593]

2 hours ago, Ryujin2003 said:

I disagree. This is brilliant, and will be great to add. Why? Because those of us with bombs in our pocket will feel better. And 0hone and electronic designers can charge more...

 

But seriously, aside from the Note 7 fiasco, I see an apple device every week in my shop with a battery expanding, and several near thermal events. Every battery expansion I've seen since working here Hass been apple

 my wife has had 2 Apple thermal events, one iPhone 3 and one iPhone 4.

 

I don't think this will take away from battery capacity. You're talking about a chemical reaction. Having yhe chemical release internally at a certain temperature will neutralize the internal chemicals. You can call it a fire extinguisher, but it's chemistry. Not too complex.

 

Samsung should adopt this because it would be great for them to care about customers. Apple won't adopt it. Why? If your battery has adopt thermal event, expands adopted breaks your device, you have to buy a new device because it's not apples fault, especially if it's apples feet the 1 year or Apple Care warranty period. If they adopted this, then they would replace the battery and call it a day. They make more money with forcing a consumer to purchase a new unit. But Apple would also need to put it in all of ther Macs, and that won't happen either.

Any idea what sort of hit in terms of battery capacity this measure will require, and if the hit is substantial, would the additional safety be worth it? 

 

[Okjoek]

Or you know, just don't cut corners by installing cheap hardware into a device to begin with.

 

I know the basic S7 (my phone) wasn't in any of the recalls or such, but because of that whole Note S7 fiasco I do have dubious feelings about my S7 time to time when I remember that.

 

Aside from that paranoia I really like my S7 from an amateur smartphone user's perspective.

[Ryujin2003]

2 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Any idea what sort of hit in terms of battery capacity this measure will require, and if the hit is substantial, would the additional safety be worth it? 

 

As of now, the testing has been on coin cell, so small test batteries, and nothing substantial such as large cell phone batteries. In their tests (and even in NASA tests from 2011 http://ecst.ecsdl.org/content/35/13/1.full.pdf), the battery performance wasn't too bad. Much better now than 2011. ArseTechnica stated "and doesn't seem to affect long-term performance of the battery." http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/01/lithium-ion-battery-flame-retardant/

 

So as far as battery performance, there appears to be some issue with certain performances around 0 degrees C; however, this isn't much of an issue for the mainstream consumer. Probably not something GoPro would want, but Apple and Samsung should be fine.

This appears to work by having a small shielded chemical that becomes exposed at a certain temperature when its protective sheath melts around 150 degrees C. When this melts, the chemical is instantly mixed with the electrolytes inside of the battery. The change in chemical ratios changes the internal chemicals from being flammable to nonflammable. It does make the battery inert, but I don't think that should be an issue during a thermal event. This looks like good tech. There needs to be more development and testing. They made great progress, now its time to bump up the testing.

 

Original full text from Stanford http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601978.full

 

 

[Doobeedoo]

That's, great. Though where are the batteries that are said they are not flamable.

[corrado33]

On 1/16/2017 at 9:34 AM, mate_mate91 said:

Yeah, that's pretty cool, how poison was/is used as medicine, and some disease is used to cure other disease...

 

I mean that iphones add features that android had 3-4 years ago. LOL. Fuck, their "flagships" still have 720p displays and no 3.5 jack  and they still can't edit number while typing it, they must delete whole number and rewrite  I am not iphone fan, i hate apple for its prices and for dongles and for making stupid things, like making bad battery and then hiding remaining time indicator, or making as less ports as possible on "PRO" devices and so on.

Maybe if you got your facts straight you'd hate Apple less. But no, the cool thing is to just hate with ignorance. So go ahead and keep doing that. 

 

:thumbs up:

 

 

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-show-your-iphone-battery-life-as-a-percentage-2000765

 

[Linus_torvalds]

2 hours ago, corrado33 said:

Maybe if you got your facts straight you'd hate Apple less. But no, the cool thing is to just hate with ignorance. So go ahead and keep doing that. 

 

:thumbs up:

 

 

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-show-your-iphone-battery-life-as-a-percentage-2000765

 

I did not mean 5.5" model. Is not iphone 7 apple's flagship?  But still most other 5.5" phones already have 2k displays. Also apples 5.5" phone is bigger then for exmple samsungs 5.7" models. Fuck these applezels

[Wolther]

58 minutes ago, mate_mate91 said:

I did not mean 5.5" model. Is not iphone 7 apple's flagship?  But still most other 5.5" phones already have 2k displays. Also apples 5.5" phone is bigger then for exmple samsungs 5.7" models. Fuck these applezels

Yeah and that's why many many phones have shit battery life.. 2k on a 5.5" phone.. are you kidding me? That ppi is way too high and you won't notice any kind of difference. It's literally just a gimmick to have a resolution that high.. unless your one of those people who have their phones glued onto your iris 

 

To the new source, yeah. Cool I guess, although shouldn't be something we need. Phone manufacturers need to stop cheaping out and start use materials rated for their use case.