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WhatsApp has a backdoor

zMeul
By zMeul
in Tech News
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1 minute ago, Humbug said:

you are not special to the world on the whole. you are special within small circles as far as particular dealings and individuals are concerned.

But that dives into someone singling you out from the rest. Unless they have self gain there is no reason to. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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11 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

But that dives into someone singling you out from the rest. Unless they have self gain there is no reason to. 

but people do have self gain

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Well now I have less of an excuse or reason to use WhatsApp.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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If FB(I) is buying a company its in everyone's best interest to get rid of anything from that company that runs software, or the software itself ;) .

Edited by jagdtigger
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6 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

The problem is outside of your SSN, credit cards, and so on you aren't really that special. 

I am Jack's righteous indignation.

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11 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

Composing an email will require you to write the subject, who you are delivering it to. It's not fast. And it might consume more data usage. 

 Im in the same boat of not getting whatsapp. Why not just text. to my understanding whatsapp aint doing anything new.

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13 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

Composing an email will require you to write the subject

Not really.

13 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

 who you are delivering it to.

Same as Whatsapp

13 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

It's not fast.

It's as fast as whatsapp

13 hours ago, deXxterlab97 said:

 And it might consume more data usage. 

Now clue about that. How so?

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2 hours ago, goodtofufriday said:

 Im in the same boat of not getting whatsapp. Why not just text. to my understanding whatsapp aint doing anything new.

The idea was that data was cheaper than SMS because of wifi, and later because of people getting "flat" rates, hence not perceiving any marginal cost in mobile internet usage. So I can see why people prefer  data services over traditional calls/SMS at some point. But once you are using internet services, you have a wealth of resources at hand. My current understanding of whatsapp is to see it as a marketing success, by presenting itself as "free SMS" for people used to non-smart phones (it uses your phone number as user ID, for example), instead of broken e-mail, which originally was (now it has moved to skype wannabe).

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Of course it has a backdoor. It uses a system developed by "OPEN Whisper Systems".

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  • Author
3 minutes ago, Darth Revan said:

Of course it has a backdoor. It uses a system developed by "OPEN Whisper Systems".

245c17470b2e501677eef1b12cafea0b.jpg

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Why am I not surprised? I think everyone should have assumed this...

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2 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Not really.

Yes but who the hell writes an email without the subject?

 

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9 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

The idea was that data was cheaper than SMS because of wifi, and later because of people getting "flat" rates, hence not perceiving any marginal cost in mobile internet usage. So I can see why people prefer  data services over traditional calls/SMS at some point. But once you are using internet services, you have a wealth of resources at hand. My current understanding of whatsapp is to see it as a marketing success, by presenting itself as "free SMS" for people used to non-smart phones (it uses your phone number as user ID, for example), instead of broken e-mail, which originally was (now it has moved to skype wannabe).

At least in the Usa,  texting is bundled into the price of your phone plan by default,  and its unlimited text. Whilst data you pay either a large sum for,  or pay as you go.  So dont get its popularity here.

 

But then i also havent used facebook since 2008. Never got into all the social media stuff. 

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On 1/13/2017 at 8:07 PM, Glenwing said:

Generally we go through the garage

i almost died reading this because of the garage thread in off topic

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On 1/13/2017 at 7:09 PM, SamStrecker said:

Again a criminal is smart enough, or should be, to not use giant name brand apps. If you are stupid enough to use it for that you deserve what you get.

And that's what annoys me, people that want to be secure will be secure and these kinds of back doors only negatively affect ordinary or stupid people.

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Yeah knew this meh.

Viber though? :)

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What a load of bollocks. How can the editors at The Guardian even let such nonsense be published?

 

THIS IS NOT A BACKDOOR

 

 

It's a man-in-the-middle attack "vulnerability" (if you can even call it that), and it has been known for almost a year.

The problems are:

1) WhatsApp for some reason has security notifications off by default, so if your key is changed you won't know about it. This can be changed though.

2) You only get the notification that the key has been changed AFTER the message has been sent, and no way of canceling the message from being sent.

Signal, which WhatsApp's encryption is based on, chooses to not deliver messages until you explicitly tells it to resend to a contact with a new key. WhatsApp wants a more user friendly approach and will deliver the message, and then tells you the key was changed. The latter means that in the case of someone for example changing phone, your messages will still be delivered. Instead of you one day realizing you had 15 undelivered messages.

 

I personally like Signal's design more, but this is not a backdoor. It is not an oversight. I wouldn't even call it a vulnerability because it is extremely difficult to pull something like this off to MITM someone, and even if you do it the user would be notified (assuming the security messages were turned on, which I think they should be by default).

 

By the way, this only works on messages which have yet to be delivered.

 

 

I will keep using WhatsApp.

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On 14/01/2017 at 3:58 AM, SpaceGhostC2C said:

Well, what has a random person to say that is so different from the what other 8 billion are saying?

Not everybody is a random person.  Anyone involved in business or politics will know the importance of keeping your information private, anyone dissenting against his/her government will have to be extremely aware of privacy. 

What do you think would have happened if the NSA or FBI had been able to intercept and/or decrypt Snowden's first mails to Glenn Greenwald or Laura Poitras?

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actually you can enable notifications on key changes in the settings, a key is made when you install or reinstall or change phones. With the above turned on its easy to work out if your key was forced changed you simple ask the other person if they reinstalled or changed phones.

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On 1/13/2017 at 8:02 PM, zMeul said:

if you use WhatsApp for private communications, think again.

Might as well say "if you use electronic devices for provate communications, think again." Idk why some people and news outlets are just now freaking out about lack of privacy in these things. We should have been talking about this stuff 10 years ago.

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By the way @LinusTech, @nicklmg,@Slick, whomever might be reading this. If you want video ideas you might want to look into making videos about news like these.

Even if you don't feel comfortable enough talking about cryptography, I am sure there are plenty of well educated people who would like a large channel like yours to spread some light on situations like these.

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9 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

By the way @LinusTech, @nicklmg,@Slick, whomever might be reading this. If you want video ideas you might want to look into making videos about news like these.

Even if you don't feel comfortable enough talking about cryptography, I am sure there are plenty of well educated people who would like a large channel like yours to spread some light on situations like these.

And forum members who are more educated on certain topics would be happy to help... A preliminary fact-checking of a script for topics that LMG is uncertain about could be a good idea. I'm sure there are downsides that I'm just overlooking though. But audio, networking, and security are 3 video topics that they could cover without sounding like dinguses.

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7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

What a load of bollocks. How can the editors at The Guardian even let such nonsense be published?

 

THIS IS NOT A BACKDOOR

 

 

It's a man-in-the-middle attack "vulnerability" (if you can even call it that), and it has been known for almost a year.

The problems are:

1) WhatsApp for some reason has security notifications off by default, so if your key is changed you won't know about it. This can be changed though.

2) You only get the notification that the key has been changed AFTER the message has been sent, and no way of canceling the message from being sent.

Signal, which WhatsApp's encryption is based on, chooses to not deliver messages until you explicitly tells it to resend to a contact with a new key. WhatsApp wants a more user friendly approach and will deliver the message, and then tells you the key was changed. The latter means that in the case of someone for example changing phone, your messages will still be delivered. Instead of you one day realizing you had 15 undelivered messages.

 

I personally like Signal's design more, but this is not a backdoor. It is not an oversight. I wouldn't even call it a vulnerability because it is extremely difficult to pull something like this off to MITM someone, and even if you do it the user would be notified (assuming the security messages were turned on, which I think they should be by default).

 

By the way, this only works on messages which have yet to be delivered.

 

 

I will keep using WhatsApp.

security messages are turned off by default.

                     ¸„»°'´¸„»°'´ Vorticalbox `'°«„¸`'°«„¸
`'°«„¸¸„»°'´¸„»°'´`'°«„¸Scientia Potentia est  ¸„»°'´`'°«„¸`'°«„¸¸„»°'´

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6 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

security messages are turned off by default.

I know. That was point number 1 in my post.

 

Seems like a really strange thing to leave off by default. Especially since it should be rare that users see them to begin with (how often do people change phones anyway?). Or maybe that's why they left it off by default. Because it's a rare message and it would scare the average Joe.

 

 

 

By the way, in order to execute this "backdoor" the attacker would need to:

1) Shut down the phone of the intended recipient before the message the attacker want to see was sent.

2) Obtain the intended recipients SIM card (or a copy of it).

3) Congratulation! The attacker will now see the messages that were sent after the phone was shut off. The person who sent the messages will also be alerted that the messages potentially went to someone else.

 

It was designed this way to be user friendly.

Signal on the other hand, takes the approach of simply not delivering messages if the recipients public key has been changed. The benefit is that you aren't vulnerable to this type of man-in-the-middle attack, but the drawback is that messages send after the phone was changed will be lost and you have to manually resend them (which means you need to look at the symbol to confirm that messages has been delivered all the time).

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6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I know. That was point number 1 in my post.

 

Seems like a really strange thing to leave off by default. Especially since it should be rare that users see them to begin with (how often do people change phones anyway?). Or maybe that's why they left it off by default. Because it's a rare message and it would scare the average Joe.

 

 

 

By the way, in order to execute this "backdoor" the attacker would need to:

1) Shut down the phone of the intended recipient before the message the attacker want to see was sent.

2) Obtain the intended recipients SIM card (or a copy of it).

3) Congratulation! The attacker will now see the messages that were sent after the phone was shut off. The person who sent the messages will also be alerted that the messages potentially went to someone else.

 

It was designed this way to be user friendly.

Signal on the other hand, takes the approach of simply not delivering messages if the recipients public key has been changed. The benefit is that you aren't vulnerable to this type of man-in-the-middle attack, but the drawback is that messages send after the phone was changed will be lost and you have to manually resend them (which means you need to look at the symbol to confirm that messages has been delivered all the time).

that's why its turn off by default.

                     ¸„»°'´¸„»°'´ Vorticalbox `'°«„¸`'°«„¸
`'°«„¸¸„»°'´¸„»°'´`'°«„¸Scientia Potentia est  ¸„»°'´`'°«„¸`'°«„¸¸„»°'´

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