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Intel now offering hyperthreaded Pentium CPUs!

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1 minute ago, Prysin said:

AMD LAUNCHING THEIR NEW RYZEN V ARCHITECTURE!!!

RYZEN 64 WILL KICK KABYLAKE D´s ASS 


RyzenAir : AMD R5 1600 | AsRock AB350M Pro4 | 24gb KVR DDR4 2400 | R9 Fury | Fractal Design Node 804
AthlonAir: Athlon X4 950 | AsRock AB350M HDV | 4gb GoodRam DDR4 2400 | R9 270X | Corsair Carbide 88R 

 

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10 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

RYZEN 64 WILL KICK KABYLAKE D´s ASS 

*laughs with a Pentium D 920*


Behold thine fine interlocutor, the whippersnapper.
"Avast yee my precious acquaintance!" he exclaimed.
"hath any new development taken lodging?"

 

aka here comes dat boi, oh shit whaddup

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Just now, lots of unexplainable lag said:

*laughs with a Pentium D 920*

*overclocks Athlon 64 x2 4400 to 3.8ghz*


RyzenAir : AMD R5 1600 | AsRock AB350M Pro4 | 24gb KVR DDR4 2400 | R9 Fury | Fractal Design Node 804
AthlonAir: Athlon X4 950 | AsRock AB350M HDV | 4gb GoodRam DDR4 2400 | R9 270X | Corsair Carbide 88R 

 

PSU Tier list

 

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1 hour ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Why bother with the higher end processors when the lower end ones will just overclock to the same performance as the higher end ones?

Even if every processor and platform was unlocked, I think overclockers would still be in a tiny minority. Maybe shops will pre-overclock, in a similar way to "factory OC" GPUs right now. For businesses, you just want it to work. For portable devices, you focus more on battery life. 

1 hour ago, Prysin said:

i am willing to bet that a AVX 1.0 enabled AMD FX CPU will perform close to one of these pentiums running without AVX. Module vs Core (cuz FX only has 1 float per module whilst intel has one per core), and i think Patrick would be more then happy to make a simple AVX based test of some sort to display that, even if only to emphasize the importance of proper, optimized multi-threading of problems.

Don't under-estimate how poor the FPU is in current AMD CPUs, even after putting aside the module thing. I'm not sure about AVX, but certainly when they implemented FMA4 (compared to Intel FMA3), George Woltman of Prime95 fame tried to get more performance out using it. The verdict? It did the work of two instructions, but took twice the time expected. No net benefit. It is like AMD put in the instructions, but without the hardware behind it to make it effective. I'm really looking forward to see what sort of improvement they've put into Ryzen, although at this time I don't know if software needs to be re-optimised for it.


Coffee tasting: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i3-8350k @ 5.0 GHz, Noctua D15, G.Skill TridentZ 3000C14 @ 3600C16 2x8GB, R7 260X, ancient OCZ PSU, cardboard box, Crucial BX300 120GB

Main rig: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k stock, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Asus 1080 Ti Strix OC, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, WD Blue 1TB, Acer Predator XB241YU

Ryzen rig: Asus Prime X370-Pro, R7 1700 @ 3.6 fixed, Corsair H110i GTX, Corsair LPX 3000 @ 2933, Vega 56, Corsair TX750, CoolerMaster MasterBox, Kingston 240GB

VR rig: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700k stock, Silverstone TD03-E, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, NZXT Manta, Samsung PM951 256GB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: MSI GE62 6QF Apache Pro, i7-6700HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 970M, Crucial MX300 525GB M.2 SATA SSD

Total CPU heating: i7-7800X, 2x i7-6700k, i7-6700HQ, i5-6600k, i5-5675C, i5-4570S, i3-8350k, i3-6100, i3-4360, 2x i3-4150T, E5-2683v3, 2x E5-2650, R7 1700, 1600

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7 hours ago, Bouzoo said:

Well it is highly dependent on the game. It's funny how in Vulkan you see 1 FPS and 0 FPS in RoTR, and the max difference is ~9%, and that is best case scenario based on those games. It should be even lower with G4620 vs 7100.

I was expecting something like that. :P Wonder how much you could crank the G4620. I'm pretty sure someone will smoke 7100.

 

Anyhow, this seems like a fun trip for @MageTank, who likes to brag with his G experience. No pun intended. :ph34r:

I don't know what it is about these $50-$80 chips that excite me, but I've had one for almost every generation now. sadly, I doubt i'll be able to OC these unless ASrock wants to break the rules again with Kaby. If so, best believe I'll have one doing 5ghz+ for no reason at all. 


My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I don't know what it is about these $50-$80 chips that excite me, but I've had one for almost every generation now. sadly, I doubt i'll be able to OC these unless ASrock wants to break the rules again with Kaby. If so, best believe I'll have one doing 5ghz+ for no reason at all. 

You have a soft spot for the G spot series.


The ability to google properly is a skill of its own. 

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19 minutes ago, porina said:

Even if every processor and platform was unlocked, I think overclockers would still be in a tiny minority. Maybe shops will pre-overclock, in a similar way to "factory OC" GPUs right now. For businesses, you just want it to work. For portable devices, you focus more on battery life. 

Don't under-estimate how poor the FPU is in current AMD CPUs, even after putting aside the module thing. I'm not sure about AVX, but certainly when they implemented FMA4 (compared to Intel FMA3), George Woltman of Prime95 fame tried to get more performance out using it. The verdict? It did the work of two instructions, but took twice the time expected. No net benefit. It is like AMD put in the instructions, but without the hardware behind it to make it effective. I'm really looking forward to see what sort of improvement they've put into Ryzen, although at this time I don't know if software needs to be re-optimised for it.

OLOL, there is little to no gaming software at all using AVX.. its mostly used by professional software and benchmarks, because game devs are too fucking lazy to use efficient coding.

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1 hour ago, Prysin said:

OLOL, there is little to no gaming software at all using AVX.. its mostly used by professional software and benchmarks, because game devs are too fucking lazy to use efficient coding.

I largely don't care. I just want CPUs to perform as fast as possible in Prime95 like compute loads. So even if Ryzen has enough FP guts in it to catch Intel (I'm really not optimistic of that) there will be a question if further optimisation is needed or if existing code will run fast as is. Actually, even if it is, it'll be crippled by the dual channel ram anyway. Forget I even spoke...


Coffee tasting: Asrock Z370 Pro4, i3-8350k @ 5.0 GHz, Noctua D15, G.Skill TridentZ 3000C14 @ 3600C16 2x8GB, R7 260X, ancient OCZ PSU, cardboard box, Crucial BX300 120GB

Main rig: Asus Maximus VIII Hero, i7-6700k stock, Noctua D14, G.Skill Ripjaws V 3200 2x8GB, Asus 1080 Ti Strix OC, Corsair HX750i, In Win 303 NVIDIA, Samsung SM951 512GB, Optane 900p 280GB, Crucial MX200 1TB, Sandisk 960GB, WD Blue 1TB, Acer Predator XB241YU

Ryzen rig: Asus Prime X370-Pro, R7 1700 @ 3.6 fixed, Corsair H110i GTX, Corsair LPX 3000 @ 2933, Vega 56, Corsair TX750, CoolerMaster MasterBox, Kingston 240GB

VR rig: Asus Z170I Pro Gaming, i7-6700k stock, Silverstone TD03-E, Kingston Hyper-X 2666 2x8GB, Zotac 1070 FE, Corsair CX450M, NZXT Manta, Samsung PM951 256GB, HTC Vive

Gaming laptop: MSI GE62 6QF Apache Pro, i7-6700HQ, 2x8GB DDR4, GTX 970M, Crucial MX300 525GB M.2 SATA SSD

Total CPU heating: i7-7800X, 2x i7-6700k, i7-6700HQ, i5-6600k, i5-5675C, i5-4570S, i3-8350k, i3-6100, i3-4360, 2x i3-4150T, E5-2683v3, 2x E5-2650, R7 1700, 1600

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8 minutes ago, MeDownYou said:

We need a this gen g3258 with hyperthreading please. unlocked+hyperthreading would be very nice for gaming

It's called the $180 i3-7350k.


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58 minutes ago, MeDownYou said:

now call it a pentium and sell it to me for 50-60 bucks please.

Not happening because then every single person will forget the i3s even exist and Intel wants to sell i3s as well. And it's not nice for gaming. Dual core CPUs start to really show their limits now for being a dual-core. Hyperthreading won't help it.


Behold thine fine interlocutor, the whippersnapper.
"Avast yee my precious acquaintance!" he exclaimed.
"hath any new development taken lodging?"

 

aka here comes dat boi, oh shit whaddup

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6 minutes ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

Dual core CPUs start to really show their limits now for being a dual-core. Hyperthreading won't help it.

Yep, saw hardware unboxing review of the i3 7350K. Was beaten by the i5 4570K in most of the games they tested even with an overclock!. This i5 should be around if not slower than the performance of the i5 7500 which is just 10 dollar more expensive, but if consider the Z170 board that it needs and the cooler it gets more expensive!


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So a $64 hyperthreaded G4560, a $100 GTX 1050/RX 460 (or a cheaper used GPU), $40 worth of DDR4, a $40-50 motherboard...this is shaping up to be the new king of budget gaming builds.

 

It also looks like Intel might be trying to draw a more clear line in the sand between its everyday Celeron and Pentium CPUs and its Core lineup. Maybe the unlocked i3 isn't a pure cash grab based on novelty. Maybe it's Intel saying that i3's are now premium processors, and the Pentium will be replacing the i3 as the workstation workhorse?


EVA-00 - R7 1700 - ASUS Dual GTX 1060 3GB - AsRock X370 Taichi - 16GB Corsair DDR4-3466 RGB - 512GB Samsung 850 Pro - 960GB SanDisk Ultra II - 4TB Seagate Barracuda - Corsair RM650i - NZXT S340 Elite - Cryorig H5 Ultimate

 

Gold Mine - Pentium G4560 - MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X - Gigabyte GTX 1060 6GB Windforce - AsRock Z170A-X1/3.1 - 8GB Crucial DDR4-2400 - 250GB WD Blue - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Cooler Master HAF 932 - Cooler Master Hyper T4- Running zcash, overclocked, undervolted, 750 H/s

 

Banzai - i7-6700T - MSI GTX 1050 Ti LP - Gigabyte GA-B150N Phoenix - 16GB Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 - 240GB Crucial M500 - 1.5TB Seagate Barracuda - Seasonic SSP-300SUG - HP Slimline s3200n case - Cryorig C7 - The Spirit of a Ninja Warrior

 

Obso1337 - i7-920 - PNY GTX 750 Ti OC Edition - ASUS X58 Sabertooth - 18GB DDR3-1333 - 1TB WD Black - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Mystery case that I brought home as a stray and painted red - Original HP Pavilion Elite HPE-170f stock cooler - 1337 mojo from 2009

 

I am the Living Death.

I am coding your hard disk now.

Your FAT is destroyed and his copy is only in memory.

If you set power off, all your data will be lost !!

 

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4 hours ago, aisle9 said:

So a $64 hyperthreaded G4560, a $100 GTX 1050/RX 460 (or a cheaper used GPU), $40 worth of DDR4, a $40-50 motherboard...this is shaping up to be the new king of budget gaming builds.

 

It also looks like Intel might be trying to draw a more clear line in the sand between its everyday Celeron and Pentium CPUs and its Core lineup. Maybe the unlocked i3 isn't a pure cash grab based on novelty. Maybe it's Intel saying that i3's are now premium processors, and the Pentium will be replacing the i3 as the workstation workhorse?

I think the line has always been clear, even when it was Mendocino Celeron/Coppermine Celeron vs Pentium III (and P4 vs Celeron D). Celeron perform like utter shit in comparison to Pentium. Though back then the main problem was Intel enforcing a 66MHz FSB, meaning that AMD practically owned the low end market due to its low end Duron costing less to manufacture (it actually had a smaller die as they were simply manufactured with less cache) than the Athlon while not being castrated like a Celeron and being at the same price point-Celeron cost the same to manufacture as Pentium III since the same die was used for both.


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12 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

I think the line has always been clear, even when it was Mendocino Celeron/Coppermine Celeron vs Pentium III (and P4 vs Celeron D). Celeron perform like utter shit in comparison to Pentium. Though back then the main problem was Intel enforcing a 66MHz FSB, meaning that AMD practically owned the low end market due to its low end Duron costing less to manufacture (it actually had a smaller die as they were simply manufactured with less cache) than the Athlon while not being castrated like a Celeron and being at the same price point-Celeron cost the same to manufacture as Pentium III since the same die was used for both.

While I remember (and loathe) the early days of the Celeron family, I don't know that the line had always been so clear. The Celeron and Pentium are regarded as budget processors and priced accordingly. The i5 and i7 are performance processors and priced accordingly. The i3, traditionally, has been priced damn near right down the middle, with features blending the two categories. Two cores, ok, but they're hyperthreaded. Price point that puts it about $60-70 north of Pentiums, check, but it's also about the same amount south of the entry level i5. You're not going to find it in any $1,000+ prebuilts like you will its performance cousins...but you're also not going to find it in any $350 "Grandma's Tandy Sensation finally died" bargain basement machines either. It's going to be in the $400-600 workstation class prebuilts for the most part.

 

I think the highly publicized i3-7350K is Intel's way of saying, "An i3 is a performance CPU," and adding hyperthreading to the Pentium is a move to show that it's more than capable of being the CPU for workstations and family room PCs. Frankly, i3's in this generation look like absolute shit. On the low end, they've been completed cannibalized by a CPU that costs just over half as much, and the 7350K is a straight-up cash grab that's got terrible price to performance when you factor in the cost of a Z270 mobo vs the entry level i5+H110 price.

 

I somehow feel like the hyperthreaded Pentium is a move to counter a piece of silicon that Intel either knows or suspects is coming from AMD, and if so, then I thank the PC gods for Ryzen. Even if we look back on it in five years and are left to reminisce on how unremarkable it truly was, we'll at least be able to say that it gave us a hyperthreaded dual core for half the price of an i3 with only a 10% drop in performance.


EVA-00 - R7 1700 - ASUS Dual GTX 1060 3GB - AsRock X370 Taichi - 16GB Corsair DDR4-3466 RGB - 512GB Samsung 850 Pro - 960GB SanDisk Ultra II - 4TB Seagate Barracuda - Corsair RM650i - NZXT S340 Elite - Cryorig H5 Ultimate

 

Gold Mine - Pentium G4560 - MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X - Gigabyte GTX 1060 6GB Windforce - AsRock Z170A-X1/3.1 - 8GB Crucial DDR4-2400 - 250GB WD Blue - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Cooler Master HAF 932 - Cooler Master Hyper T4- Running zcash, overclocked, undervolted, 750 H/s

 

Banzai - i7-6700T - MSI GTX 1050 Ti LP - Gigabyte GA-B150N Phoenix - 16GB Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 - 240GB Crucial M500 - 1.5TB Seagate Barracuda - Seasonic SSP-300SUG - HP Slimline s3200n case - Cryorig C7 - The Spirit of a Ninja Warrior

 

Obso1337 - i7-920 - PNY GTX 750 Ti OC Edition - ASUS X58 Sabertooth - 18GB DDR3-1333 - 1TB WD Black - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Mystery case that I brought home as a stray and painted red - Original HP Pavilion Elite HPE-170f stock cooler - 1337 mojo from 2009

 

I am the Living Death.

I am coding your hard disk now.

Your FAT is destroyed and his copy is only in memory.

If you set power off, all your data will be lost !!

 

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1 hour ago, david cassar said:

More benchmarks have been released. Performs basically on par with the sandy bridge i5s and the i3 6100. Compared to the old pentium g4400 its about 20% faster in most cases :
https://www.computerbase.de/2017-01/intel-pentium-g4560-test-kaby-lake/3/#diagramm-gesamtrating-spiele-full-hd

Well this is making my i5-2400 seem rather dated. 


Laptop: Dell 17R SE 7720 with upgraded AC wireless card A Data SP550 SSD and Seagate 500GB HDD

Desktop: CPU: i5-2400 MOBO: AsusP8P67 Pro MEM: 2 x 4G Corsair Vengeance GPU: PNY GTX 960 2G XLR8 Elite OC CASE: Zalman Z9 Neo PSU: Antec EA-750 Earthwatts

 

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4 hours ago, lonestar31 said:

Well this is making my i5-2400 seem rather dated. 

No doubt. We're to the point where even my "buy an old Optiplex with a Sandy or Ivy i5 and upgrade around it" method is out the window--even moreso if you buy a used, cheapo Skylake Celeron, use it to update the BIOS, then sell it off right afterwards for almost exactly what you paid. Sites like CEX are great for finding cheap components you can flip like that.

 

That's assuming your H110 board doesn't let you update BIOS with a USB drive, of course.

Edited by aisle9
I'm not a dick. I promise.

EVA-00 - R7 1700 - ASUS Dual GTX 1060 3GB - AsRock X370 Taichi - 16GB Corsair DDR4-3466 RGB - 512GB Samsung 850 Pro - 960GB SanDisk Ultra II - 4TB Seagate Barracuda - Corsair RM650i - NZXT S340 Elite - Cryorig H5 Ultimate

 

Gold Mine - Pentium G4560 - MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X - Gigabyte GTX 1060 6GB Windforce - AsRock Z170A-X1/3.1 - 8GB Crucial DDR4-2400 - 250GB WD Blue - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Cooler Master HAF 932 - Cooler Master Hyper T4- Running zcash, overclocked, undervolted, 750 H/s

 

Banzai - i7-6700T - MSI GTX 1050 Ti LP - Gigabyte GA-B150N Phoenix - 16GB Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 - 240GB Crucial M500 - 1.5TB Seagate Barracuda - Seasonic SSP-300SUG - HP Slimline s3200n case - Cryorig C7 - The Spirit of a Ninja Warrior

 

Obso1337 - i7-920 - PNY GTX 750 Ti OC Edition - ASUS X58 Sabertooth - 18GB DDR3-1333 - 1TB WD Black - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Mystery case that I brought home as a stray and painted red - Original HP Pavilion Elite HPE-170f stock cooler - 1337 mojo from 2009

 

I am the Living Death.

I am coding your hard disk now.

Your FAT is destroyed and his copy is only in memory.

If you set power off, all your data will be lost !!

 

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9 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

No doubt. We're to the point where even my "buy an old Optiplex with a Sandy or Ivy i5 and upgrade around it" method is out the window--even moreso if there's a Micro Center or Fry's in town and you can buy a cheapo Skylake Celeron, use it to update the BIOS, then exchange it for a G4560 the next day because it's "not powerful enough".

I have one here in Houston and I really want the i6 6600k they have for 199! 


Laptop: Dell 17R SE 7720 with upgraded AC wireless card A Data SP550 SSD and Seagate 500GB HDD

Desktop: CPU: i5-2400 MOBO: AsusP8P67 Pro MEM: 2 x 4G Corsair Vengeance GPU: PNY GTX 960 2G XLR8 Elite OC CASE: Zalman Z9 Neo PSU: Antec EA-750 Earthwatts

 

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1 minute ago, lonestar31 said:

I have one here in Houston and I really want the i6 6600k they have for 199! 

Buy it with a motherboard and get $30 off the pair.


EVA-00 - R7 1700 - ASUS Dual GTX 1060 3GB - AsRock X370 Taichi - 16GB Corsair DDR4-3466 RGB - 512GB Samsung 850 Pro - 960GB SanDisk Ultra II - 4TB Seagate Barracuda - Corsair RM650i - NZXT S340 Elite - Cryorig H5 Ultimate

 

Gold Mine - Pentium G4560 - MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X - Gigabyte GTX 1060 6GB Windforce - AsRock Z170A-X1/3.1 - 8GB Crucial DDR4-2400 - 250GB WD Blue - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Cooler Master HAF 932 - Cooler Master Hyper T4- Running zcash, overclocked, undervolted, 750 H/s

 

Banzai - i7-6700T - MSI GTX 1050 Ti LP - Gigabyte GA-B150N Phoenix - 16GB Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 - 240GB Crucial M500 - 1.5TB Seagate Barracuda - Seasonic SSP-300SUG - HP Slimline s3200n case - Cryorig C7 - The Spirit of a Ninja Warrior

 

Obso1337 - i7-920 - PNY GTX 750 Ti OC Edition - ASUS X58 Sabertooth - 18GB DDR3-1333 - 1TB WD Black - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Mystery case that I brought home as a stray and painted red - Original HP Pavilion Elite HPE-170f stock cooler - 1337 mojo from 2009

 

I am the Living Death.

I am coding your hard disk now.

Your FAT is destroyed and his copy is only in memory.

If you set power off, all your data will be lost !!

 

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5 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Buy it with a motherboard and get $30 off the pair.

I'm tempted to sell my laptop for it, but as I only have a 960 in my setup right now I think it would be better spent on a better gpu. 


Laptop: Dell 17R SE 7720 with upgraded AC wireless card A Data SP550 SSD and Seagate 500GB HDD

Desktop: CPU: i5-2400 MOBO: AsusP8P67 Pro MEM: 2 x 4G Corsair Vengeance GPU: PNY GTX 960 2G XLR8 Elite OC CASE: Zalman Z9 Neo PSU: Antec EA-750 Earthwatts

 

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1 minute ago, lonestar31 said:

I'm tempted to sell my laptop for it, but as I only have a 960 in my setup right now I think it would be better spent on a better gpu. 

TBQH, unless you're trying to play AAA titles at 1080p ultra with AA turned on, you're fine with a 960 in most cases. My wife has my old 4GB 960 right now, which performs somewhere between a 1050 and a 1050 Ti, and the only games she really complains about its performance in are Witcher 3, Far Cry 4 and GTA V. Otherwise, she can get 60 FPS pretty consistently with details turned up--but she has an i7-6700.

 

In your case, I think you'd benefit more from the updated CPU/mobo platform than you would a new GPU, especially as the Sandy Bridge i5 CPUs start to be eclipsed by Pentiums.


EVA-00 - R7 1700 - ASUS Dual GTX 1060 3GB - AsRock X370 Taichi - 16GB Corsair DDR4-3466 RGB - 512GB Samsung 850 Pro - 960GB SanDisk Ultra II - 4TB Seagate Barracuda - Corsair RM650i - NZXT S340 Elite - Cryorig H5 Ultimate

 

Gold Mine - Pentium G4560 - MSI GTX 1070 Gaming X - Gigabyte GTX 1060 6GB Windforce - AsRock Z170A-X1/3.1 - 8GB Crucial DDR4-2400 - 250GB WD Blue - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Cooler Master HAF 932 - Cooler Master Hyper T4- Running zcash, overclocked, undervolted, 750 H/s

 

Banzai - i7-6700T - MSI GTX 1050 Ti LP - Gigabyte GA-B150N Phoenix - 16GB Kingston HyperX DDR4-2133 - 240GB Crucial M500 - 1.5TB Seagate Barracuda - Seasonic SSP-300SUG - HP Slimline s3200n case - Cryorig C7 - The Spirit of a Ninja Warrior

 

Obso1337 - i7-920 - PNY GTX 750 Ti OC Edition - ASUS X58 Sabertooth - 18GB DDR3-1333 - 1TB WD Black - Seasonic M12II EVO 620W - Mystery case that I brought home as a stray and painted red - Original HP Pavilion Elite HPE-170f stock cooler - 1337 mojo from 2009

 

I am the Living Death.

I am coding your hard disk now.

Your FAT is destroyed and his copy is only in memory.

If you set power off, all your data will be lost !!

 

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1 hour ago, aisle9 said:

No doubt. We're to the point where even my "buy an old Optiplex with a Sandy or Ivy i5 and upgrade around it" method is out the window--even moreso if there's a Micro Center or Fry's in town and you can buy a cheapo Skylake Celeron, use it to update the BIOS, then exchange it for a G4560 the next day because it's "not powerful enough".

This is why we can't have nice things.

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