Intel now offering hyperthreaded Pentium CPUs!

[leadeater]

22 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

@Prysin, @Energycore, and basically everyone else on this thread; benchmarks are out. The other hyperthreaded Pentium (the Pentium G4620) is faster than the Core i3 6100.

The difference between them in most cases is none and where it is is so tiny you'd have to run the test hundreds of times to give it any statistical significance. Still interesting none the less, should we not be comparing it to the i3-7100 though since that is the same architecture? That has a much high clock but being newer costs a fair amount more.

http://ark.intel.com/products/97455/Intel-Core-i3-7100-Processor-3M-Cache-3_90-GHz

[AlTech]

19 minutes ago, leadeater said:

should we not be comparing it to the i3-7100 though since that is the same architecture?

Finally, somebody with some damn competency! They should have compared the Pentium to the new i3s in the same architecture rather than 2 different architectures.

[Bouzoo]

59 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Still interesting none the less, should we not be comparing it to the i3-7100 though since that is the same architecture? That has a much high clock but being newer costs a fair amount more.

 

39 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Finally, somebody with some damn competency! They should have compared the Pentium to the new i3s in the same architecture rather than 2 different architectures.

The much higher clock is a 200 MHz OC, and they both have (practically) the same architecture. It's not like they are worlds apart. It's the same story as with 6700K and 7700K.

[leadeater]

10 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

 

The much higher clock is a 200 MHz OC, and they are both have (practically) the same architecture. It's not like they are worlds apart. It's the same story as with 6700K and 7700K.

I was actually meaning the clock speed difference between the G4560 and i3-7100, but your right it still is only 200Mhz more which likely won't count for much.

 

Edit:

Actually 200Mhz is slightly more than I expected.

 

 

[Ashiella]

15 hours ago, Energycore said:

Well they're still on 65nm or higher

 

Sandy Bridge CPUs have been really cheap these days. That's the budget king now

I've seen some 3930k's go for 100$ and clock for clock it should be better than haswell (theoretically)

[Bouzoo]

28 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Actually 200Mhz is slightly more than I expected.

Well it is highly dependent on the game. It's funny how in Vulkan you see 1 FPS and 0 FPS in RoTR, and the max difference is ~9%, and that is best case scenario based on those games. It should be even lower with G4620 vs 7100.

I was expecting something like that.  Wonder how much you could crank the G4620. I'm pretty sure someone will smoke 7100.

 

Anyhow, this seems like a fun trip for @MageTank, who likes to brag with his G experience. No pun intended. 

[porina]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

They have AVX and AVX 2.0 (quite pointless on a CPU that weak anyways).

AVX provides a boost regardless the configuration and to me is practically a necessity for compute uses. I find i3s far better value in that sense than going for an i5 or i7 system. Building two low cost i3 systems will generally give better performance than a comparable cost single i5 or i7 system due to the difficulty of feeding them with fast enough ram. Wish I figured this out earlier...

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

Well it is highly dependent on the game. It's funny how in Vulkan you see 1 FPS and 0 FPS in RoTR, and the max difference is ~9%, and that is best case scenario based on those games. It should be even lower with G4620 vs 7100.

Yea DX12/Vulkan looks like it's actually a little bit of a problem for Intel and their million SKUs with tiny clock speed bumps, games that use those don't really care about minor speed increases. Also 3% clock increase for up to 9% performance gain isn't bad, not worth the extra cost though.

[Mira Yurizaki]

8 hours ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

Euros. An i3-6320 goes for around €170 which is like $180 bucks. 

 

Pretty close to $200 if you ask me.

The unfortunate thing is the EU has this thing called VAT.

 

However the fact you were comparing US prices with EU prices would render your argument void.

[Prysin]

7 hours ago, Aereldor said:

That's not true. Here's why-

 

i3s don't have turbo boost. I don't know where people get the bizarre idea that they do. Also, this chip has 3MB of level 3 cache- the same amount as a Core i3 6100.

• Core i3 6100- No turbo boost, 3MB Cache, 3.7 GHz: http://ark.intel.com/products/90729/Intel-Core-i3-6100-Processor-3M-Cache-3_70-GHz
• Pentium G4560- No turbo boost, 3MB Cache, 3.5 GHz: https://ark.intel.com/products/97143/Intel-Pentium-Processor-G4560-3M-Cache-3_50-GHz

 

Does AVX, a few instruction sets, and some 'other things, make that much of a difference? Because these chips are identical in all other aspects besides clock speed,l and are only 200 MHz apart there.

AVX and a few instruction sets can cause immense disparities...

 

Want to know how much? Look at benchmarks back in the day of Athlon 64 vs Pentium 3 or 4?`..... The Athlon was clearly faster on a hardware perspective and in normal use. But intels compiler made sure that ALL AMD chips ran at a older instruction set and i think we both know how that affected the results.

 

Want an analogy? Here's an analogy.

A instruction set is like a language. Now if you move to say, inner france, where the population are poorly educated in english, stubbornly refuses to speak english even if they are able to. You can get by using the old "point, smile and nod" principle... But you're not going to get a well paid job, you aren't going to get a good social life and you are going to struggle to find a partner. Despite this you CAN get by. However if you can speak french, things are much easier and your situation will sort itself out much much faster.

 

Instruction sets work in the same way, and their impact on software execution can be huge.

 

@AluminiumTech

ask @patrickjp93 how much AVX matters. Patrick is really good at coding for AVX and has publicly posted some very good examples of just how much better a software can run using it. Let me put it in simpler terms.... i am willing to bet that a AVX 1.0 enabled AMD FX CPU will perform close to one of these pentiums running without AVX. Module vs Core (cuz FX only has 1 float per module whilst intel has one per core), and i think Patrick would be more then happy to make a simple AVX based test of some sort to display that, even if only to emphasize the importance of proper, optimized multi-threading of problems.

 

 

[Prysin]

6 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Finally, somebody with some damn competency! They should have compared the Pentium to the new i3s in the same architecture rather than 2 different architectures.

architecturally, Kaby Lake core design is Skylake. What is new is the media encoding engine, iGPU saw a slight improvement, the IMC saw a redesign of sorts and it was printed on a more power-concious manufacturing node.

 

There is 0 IPC improvements between the two. ZERO.

 

Kaby Lake is "Skylake 2.0"... It is no bigger of a leap then AMD did when making the 290X into the 390X.. Same shit underneath, power management was improved, data compression was added, some minor memory tweaks and that was it. Intel has essentially done the exact same as that.... Only difference is that the parts are inside the silicon chip rather then on a PCB.

[Bleedingyamato]

22 hours ago, Aereldor said:

The G3258? And Celerons have been the best value at the low-end for a while. Just ask @ONOTech about his tests with a Celeron G1840. 

What confuses me is why is this new Pentium is locked it sounds like?

 

The G3258 is unlocked but doesn't have hyperthreading.

 

Now they release the G4620 and it has hyperthreading but is locked.  

 

I am missing something or why can't we get both?  

[themaniac]

2 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

What confuses me is why is this new Pentium is locked it sounds like?

 

The G3258 is unlocked but doesn't have hyperthreading.

 

Now they release the G4620 and it has hyperthreading but is locked.  

 

I am missing something or why can't we get both?  

the g3258 was unlocked to celebrate the 25 year anniversary of the Pentium line

[Bleedingyamato]

1 minute ago, themaniac said:

the g3258 was unlocked to celebrate the 25 year anniversary of the Pentium line

Ok.  They couldn't celebrate what I assume is the first hyperthreaded Pentium by unlocking that? 

[Aereldor]

10 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

What confuses me is why is this new Pentium is locked it sounds like?

 

The G3258 is unlocked but doesn't have hyperthreading.

 

Now they release the G4620 and it has hyperthreading but is locked.  

 

I am missing something or why can't we get both?  

Too good to be true. An unlocked, hyperthreaded Pentium would be OP, and there would no longer be any reason for gamers and general-use builders to buy a Core i3. In fact, one of the unusual members of the Kaby Lake lineup is the Core i3 7350k, which is unlocked. The unlocked Pentium would get dangerously close to it in terms of performance.

 

Intel won't just topple their product hierarchy. The Pentium G3258 had spunk, but it was released around the time games were starting to render dual-core (well, dual-thread) CPUs obsolete. Far Cry 4 wouldn't even launch on a dual core, although this could be circumvented with a simple modification to one of the INI configuration files, and it ran fine on a dual-core chip. two years later, look what Battlefield 1 does to dual-core CPUs.

 

Intel's probably adding hyperthreading to Pentiums because of how many applications favour four threads. However, I think another major reason behind Intel's sudden break in tradition and modification of their product hierarchy is intimidation. They're scared, because something new is on the horyzen.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Since it was brought to my attention, https://ark.intel.com/products/family/95545/7th-Generation-Intel-Core-i3-Processors#@All

 

Let's stop comparing the Pentium G4000 series to the Core i3-6000 series when there's an i3-7000 series.

[Mira Yurizaki]

12 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Too good to be true. An unlocked, hyperthreaded Pentium would be OP, and there would no longer be any reason for gamers and general-use builders to buy a Core i3. In fact, one of the unusual members of the Kaby Lake lineup is the Core i3 7350k, which is unlocked. The unlocked Pentium would get dangerously close to it in terms of performance.

 

Intel won't just topple their product hierarchy. The Pentium G3258 had spunk, but it was released around the time games were starting to render dual-core (well, dual-thread) CPUs obsolete. Far Cry 4 wouldn't even launch on a dual core, although this could be circumvented with a simple modification to one of the INI configuration files, and it ran fine on a dual-core chip. two years later, look what Battlefield 1 does to dual-core CPUs.

 

Intel's probably adding hyperthreading to Pentiums because of how many applications favour four threads. However, I think another major reason behind Intel's sudden break in tradition and modification of their product hierarchy is intimidation. They're scared, because something new is on the horyzen.

But in AMD's camp, if they're letting all of their processors run free, then the same applies to them. Why bother with the higher end processors when the lower end ones will just overclock to the same performance as the higher end ones?

 

It's a race to the bottom for sure, but you may as well ask yourself why any processor company bothers with higher stock clocks then.

[Aereldor]

2 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

But in AMD's camp, if they're letting all of their processors run free, then the same applies to them. Why bother with the higher end processors when the lower end ones will just overclock to the same performance as the higher end ones?

 

It's a race to the bottom for sure, but you may as well ask yourself why any processor company bothers with higher stock clocks then.

Perhaps AMD's marketing strategy is more geared towards overclocking motherboards. It's possible that they'll only have one dual core, one hyperthreaded dual core, one quad core, one hyperthreaded quad core, and so on.

[captain cactus]

25 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Too good to be true. An unlocked, hyperthreaded Pentium would be OP, and there would no longer be any reason for gamers and general-use builders to buy a Core i3. In fact, one of the unusual members of the Kaby Lake lineup is the Core i3 7350k, which is unlocked. The unlocked Pentium would get dangerously close to it in terms of performance.

 

Intel won't just topple their product hierarchy. The Pentium G3258 had spunk, but it was released around the time games were starting to render dual-core (well, dual-thread) CPUs obsolete. Far Cry 4 wouldn't even launch on a dual core, although this could be circumvented with a simple modification to one of the INI configuration files, and it ran fine on a dual-core chip. two years later, look what Battlefield 1 does to dual-core CPUs.

 

Intel's probably adding hyperthreading to Pentiums because of how many applications favour four threads. However, I think another major reason behind Intel's sudden break in tradition and modification of their product hierarchy is intimidation. They're scared, because something new is on the horyzen.

You.

 

I like you.

[Bleedingyamato]

20 minutes ago, Aereldor said:

Too good to be true. An unlocked, hyperthreaded Pentium would be OP, and there would no longer be any reason for gamers and general-use builders to buy a Core i3. In fact, one of the unusual members of the Kaby Lake lineup is the Core i3 7350k, which is unlocked. The unlocked Pentium would get dangerously close to it in terms of performance.

 

Intel won't just topple their product hierarchy. The Pentium G3258 had spunk, but it was released around the time games were starting to render dual-core (well, dual-thread) CPUs obsolete. Far Cry 4 wouldn't even launch on a dual core, although this could be circumvented with a simple modification to one of the INI configuration files, and it ran fine on a dual-core chip. two years later, look what Battlefield 1 does to dual-core CPUs.

 

Intel's probably adding hyperthreading to Pentiums because of how many applications favour four threads. However, I think another major reason behind Intel's sudden break in tradition and modification of their product hierarchy is intimidation. They're scared, because something new is on the horyzen.

You have a point.  

 

Is it just the one Pentium that'll have hyperthreading or all 7th gen Pentiums?

[Aereldor]

2 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

You have a point.  

 

Is it just the one Pentium that'll have hyperthreading or all 7th gen Pentiums?

All of them. The G4560 at 3.5 GHz is the cheapest one with a suggested retail price of about $65 (prices will take time to get down there). The G4600 is 3.6 GHz and $75, and the G4620 is actually faster than a Core i3 6100 and is $85. Prices are about $10 higher than they should be, so give it a few weeks.

[Aereldor]

18 minutes ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

You.

 

I like you.

Why, thank you. I'm glad my jest was appreciated.

 

It's not entirely unfounded either. I'm taking first-party benchmarks with a grain of salt, but the best-case scenario is that Zen - architecturally - operates on equal footing with Broadwell E, which is basically Skylake. If they have a two-core, four-thread chip at $50, then Intel would be in for it. However, that's very optimistic, and these cheap hyperthreaded Pentiums are actually a very good safeguard in the low-end market. 

[Prysin]

35 minutes ago, M.Yurizaki said:

But in AMD's camp, if they're letting all of their processors run free, then the same applies to them. Why bother with the higher end processors when the lower end ones will just overclock to the same performance as the higher end ones?

 

It's a race to the bottom for sure, but you may as well ask yourself why any processor company bothers with higher stock clocks then.

ill only say this: Not all silicon is created equal

[Space Reptile]

NOW OFFERING PENTIUM D´s 

[Prysin]

22 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

NOW OFFERING PENTIUM D´s 

AMD LAUNCHING THEIR NEW RYZEN V ARCHITECTURE!!!