Razer Blade 14 (2017 Edition-GTX 1060)

[JamieOlive]

Alright, here are some thoughts on the next Razer Blade 14 (2017/GTX 1060):

 

First, i want to know how bad the thermals would be if the screen was bigger and the bezels smaller. So how about a 14,6 inch in the same form factor.

Secondly, in reagards to I/O, on the left: Magnetic Charger/2xUSB 3.1 Type A/ Headphone+Microphone Jack-rIght:2xUSB3.2 Type-C with thunderbolt 3 support/SD Card Reader.

Third, please copy apple already and make it freaking huge and at least a 80Whrs battery on the thing and make it a few millimeters thicker.

Last but certainly not least, the specs:Intel core i7 7820HQ @ 3.9ghz/GTX 1060/up to 32 Gb Ram and a up to 2 Tb NvME SSD, with an optional m.2 ssd socket.

 

Working on making some photos on my ideas,it will take a couple of days more, but in the meantime feel free to leave your own ideas, and if anyone is savvy enough post your own photo of your ideal new Razer blade.

[Dackzy]

Thermals would still be utter garbage, look at the XPS15, dell has upgraded it to a 1050 from a 960m to keep the thermals in check.

Your idea would just be yet another craptop that thermal throttles like hell, so you don't even get close to the full performance of the parts inside it, furthermore it will be plagued with heat related problems, it is not only the CPU and GPU that gets hot, it is also all of the parts around them.

 

Also the idea of the 3.5mm TRS being on the right side is just stupid. Why?

1. Normally the wire from headphones or headsets goes down from the left cup

2. Most people are right handed, so that would just take mouse space up

 

I could make a 3D model of a laptop that would work, but MSI and Clevo already made a slim as it gets without thermal throttling 1060 laptop. So why would I even bother.

 

@Pendragon @D2ultima come in and see this

 

(just to be sure, I am not trying to be mean or anything like that, nor am I calling you stupid)

[JamieOlive]

3 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

Also the idea of the 3.5mm TRS being on the right side is just stupid. Why?

1. Normally the wire from headphones or headsets goes down from the left cup

2. Most people are right handed, so that would just take mouse space up

 

@Dackzy Have you read what i just wrote up there, The Left Side,Left Man:Headphone+Microphone jack, also i really like razer design over msi and i dont know who thopse other guys are, nut i will check them out.

Also i think razer isn't that behind in making thermals better, apple can do it with that stupidly slim thing they insist on calliing a laptop so they should be able to figure it out.

 

P.S: READ BEFORE YOU COMMENT.

[Dackzy]

2 minutes ago, JamieOlive said:

@Dackzy Have you read what i just wrote up there, The Left Side,Left Man:Headphone+Microphone jack, also i really like razer design over msi and i dont know who thopse other guys are, nut i will check them out.

Also i think razer isn't that behind in making thermals better, apple can do it with that stupidly slim thing they insist on calliing a laptop so they should be able to figure it out.

 

P.S: READ BEFORE YOU COMMENT.

Quote

Jack-rIght

that makes it seem like you want it on the right, so sorry that I misunderstood that.

 

Did you know that Razer power throttles the 1060 in the blade? Yet it still thermal throttles like no tomorrow.

Yes Razer is far far behind in thermals, Apple is just as bad, if not worse, they also make laptops that thermal throttle as soon as you put them under load. It is a well known fact that Macbook "pros" thermal throttles, if you see a intel CPU go above 85c then it will start to thermal throttle and a Nvidia GPU will throttle at 83c.

 

Those other guys are people who also know laptops very very well.

[JamieOlive]

2 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

 

11 minutes ago, JamieOlive said:

@Dackzy Have you read what i just wrote up there, The Left Side,Left Man:Headphone+Microphone jack, also i really like razer design over msi and i dont know who thopse other guys are, nut i will check them out.

Also i think razer isn't that behind in making thermals better, apple can do it with that stupidly slim thing they insist on calliing a laptop so they should be able to figure it out.

 

P.S: READ BEFORE YOU COMMENT.

Quote

Jack-rIght

 

Yeah maybe i should have spaced it out more or something. I know but, correct me if i am wrong but the Pascal based GPUs are "unlocked" so manufacturers can make them less or more powerful, hence the reason we have no Mobile GPUs with Pascal. So the 1060 can be a little less powerful and at the same time the thickness of the laptop going from 0.70in to 0.75in and make it more breathable in there.

I cheked them out both Msi and Clevo, you should have mentioned the Sager Laptop by the way that would be helpful without me google it

Still though i like the Razer Design better, it is just more stylish , how should i put it. More specifically:

Regarding MSI, It has a whole mlineup of GTX 1060 laptops, but the closests to the blade is either the  MSI GS63VR-6RF16H22 Stealth Pro:

or the MSI GS73VR 6RF:

Don't know which one you refer to but i will admit they look slick, they are either a 15,6inch and a 17 inch laptop, although they are quite light and their pricing isn't very different but a little more expensive than Razers.BUT they are not on the same level,IMHO.

Reagarding Clevo I couldn't find the specific model you are referring, their site is terrible by the way, like it was designed in 1999 or something so pls post it here, i would like to see it.

[Bleedingyamato]

1 hour ago, Dackzy said:

that makes it seem like you want it on the right, so sorry that I misunderstood that.

 

Did you know that Razer power throttles the 1060 in the blade? Yet it still thermal throttles like no tomorrow.

Yes Razer is far far behind in thermals, Apple is just as bad, if not worse, they also make laptops that thermal throttle as soon as you put them under load. It is a well known fact that Macbook "pros" thermal throttles, if you see a intel CPU go above 85c then it will start to thermal throttle and a Nvidia GPU will throttle at 83c.

 

Those other guys are people who also know laptops very very well.

Is there a different brand of laptop with thunderbolt 3 that would work with a Razer core besides a Razer blade (any of the versions of it) with less or no thermal issues?

[D2ultima]

2 hours ago, JamieOlive said:

Yeah maybe i should have spaced it out more or something. I know but, correct me if i am wrong but the Pascal based GPUs are "unlocked" so manufacturers can make them less or more powerful, hence the reason we have no Mobile GPUs with Pascal. So the 1060 can be a little less powerful and at the same time the thickness of the laptop going from 0.70in to 0.75in and make it more breathable in there.

I cheked them out both Msi and Clevo, you should have mentioned the Sager Laptop by the way that would be helpful without me google it

Their TDP is adjustable by OEMs. They aren't really "unlocked" in any other way, as far as I know.

 

The "no mobile GPUs with Pascal" is a stupid, and false, marketing ploy. Mobile GPUs do not hold their boost. They power throttle till no tomorrow. Overclocking them, even though their clockspeed slider is advertised as being unlocked, is worthless excepting bugged-firmware Clevo models for the most part. The "bugged" firmware on the Clevo models makes all the firmware's artificial power throttle flags worthless, so the cards and CPUs actually run like they're supposed to. Prema will fix this, of course, but the mobile cards are *FAR* below their desktop counterparts in power. Pascal exists to boost. If Pascal doesn't boost, it performs badly. It's why its boost is so large; 1080s mostly sit near 1800MHz or more. 1070s the same. 1060s as well. They all easily push 2000MHz without any issue whatsoever on desktops. On notebooks, 1500MHz or less is par for the course. That's more than "within 10% of their desktop brothers". It's so bad, that there was some article that I *WISH* I could find again where a company was complaining that 1060 "VR" laptops couldn't pass VR spec in their games, and that they couldn't use them and they didn't know why (the reason was 1060 power throttle to around a 980M which needs overclocking to clear VR spec).

 

And just increasing the thickness slightly doesn't mean much. That thickness needs to go into cooling. And even then, sub-1" thickness is not suitable for Pascal. Pascal is hotter than Maxwell by a fuckton. It's hotter than Kepler by a god damn lot. It's hotter than Fermi by a good deal. It's hotter than even GCN Hawaii cards. People are barely keeping them cool, and likely set thermal throttle limits to around 80c. I've noticed a rather big trend in 1060 laptops. All firestrike runs (from any reviewed notebook) from most reviewers maxes the GPU at 68c. All stress tests max out the GPU at 80-82c. Every. Single. Non-Clevo. Notebook. The cooling system doesn't matter. That doesn't happen, especially with notebooks that lift the cooling system from the previous gen and slap it into the current gen, like the GS43VR and Razer Blade, where it's known that 970Ms (a GPU so much cooler it's laughable) have thermal throttled. It makes zero sense, except that the notebooks don't work properly. You need to actually put proper cooling in and stop unnecessary artificial throttle before it even comes close to a "working" notebook, as far as people like Dackzy and myself are concerned.

 

Clevo is rebranded by so many that learning every company's specific names for them is a waste of time. The models you're looking for are the P670RP6 and P650RP6. The P670RS and P650RS are the 1070 models. They have the best cooling of thin notebooks for this gen and for last gen.

[Pendragon]

Also, wasnt Pascal throttling somewhere near the 55c range for some reason. It had something to do with the boost. I read that from Mr. Fox somewhere 

[JamieOlive]

8 hours ago, D2ultima said:

Clevo is rebranded by so many that learning every company's specific names for them is a waste of time. The models you're looking for are the P670RP6 and P650RP6. The P670RS and P650RS are the 1070 models. They have the best cooling of thin notebooks for this gen and for last gen.

 

8 hours ago, D2ultima said:

13 hours ago, JamieOlive said:

Yeah maybe i should have spaced it out more or something. I know but, correct me if i am wrong but the Pascal based GPUs are "unlocked" so manufacturers can make them less or more powerful, hence the reason we have no Mobile GPUs with Pascal. So the 1060 can be a little less powerful and at the same time the thickness of the laptop going from 0.70in to 0.75in and make it more breathable in there.

I cheked them out both Msi and Clevo, you should have mentioned the Sager Laptop by the way that would be helpful without me google it

Their TDP is adjustable by OEMs. They aren't really "unlocked" in any other way, as far as I know.

 

The "no mobile GPUs with Pascal" is a stupid, and false, marketing ploy. Mobile GPUs do not hold their boost. They power throttle till no tomorrow. Overclocking them, even though their clockspeed slider is advertised as being unlocked, is worthless excepting bugged-firmware Clevo models for the most part. The "bugged" firmware on the Clevo models makes all the firmware's artificial power throttle flags worthless, so the cards and CPUs actually run like they're supposed to. Prema will fix this, of course, but the mobile cards are *FAR* below their desktop counterparts in power. Pascal exists to boost. If Pascal doesn't boost, it performs badly. It's why its boost is so large; 1080s mostly sit near 1800MHz or more. 1070s the same. 1060s as well. They all easily push 2000MHz without any issue whatsoever on desktops. On notebooks, 1500MHz or less is par for the course. That's more than "within 10% of their desktop brothers". It's so bad, that there was some article that I *WISH* I could find again where a company was complaining that 1060 "VR" laptops couldn't pass VR spec in their games, and that they couldn't use them and they didn't know why (the reason was 1060 power throttle to around a 980M which needs overclocking to clear VR spec).

 

And just increasing the thickness slightly doesn't mean much. That thickness needs to go into cooling. And even then, sub-1" thickness is not suitable for Pascal. Pascal is hotter than Maxwell by a fuckton. It's hotter than Kepler by a god damn lot. It's hotter than Fermi by a good deal. It's hotter than even GCN Hawaii cards. People are barely keeping them cool, and likely set thermal throttle limits to around 80c. I've noticed a rather big trend in 1060 laptops. All firestrike runs (from any reviewed notebook) from most reviewers maxes the GPU at 68c. All stress tests max out the GPU at 80-82c. Every. Single. Non-Clevo. Notebook. The cooling system doesn't matter. That doesn't happen, especially with notebooks that lift the cooling system from the previous gen and slap it into the current gen, like the GS43VR and Razer Blade, where it's known that 970Ms (a GPU so much cooler it's laughable) have thermal throttled. It makes zero sense, except that the notebooks don't work properly. You need to actually put proper cooling in and stop unnecessary artificial throttle before it even comes close to a "working" notebook, as far as people like Dackzy and myself are concerned.

 

Clevo is rebranded by so many that learning every company's specific names for them is a waste of time. The models you're looking for are the P670RP6 and P650RP6. The P670RS and P650RS are the 1070 models. They have the best cooling of thin notebooks for this gen and for last gen

Ok I understand what you guys are saying and agree with you. Personally I didn't know that Pascal runs so much hotter, even hotter than Hawaii GPUs, that shocked me.

I checked,out those laptops that you guys talked about, they both look slick and I can't speak about performance and thermals, I will take your word on that, but still you have to agree they are not on the same scale.

 

They are thicker,bigger more than a fraction of it, although their weight and specs are similar.

I can understand your need for unparalleled performance without any compromise but for me at least its not a price I am willing to pay for 15% less thermals and 12-18% more performance. That's just me though, but I truly believe if Razer can improve thermals by 5-8% , and add half of what i said in my original post,there wouldn't be a match on the market for a laptop this size.

[D2ultima]

3 hours ago, JamieOlive said:

 

Ok I understand what you guys are saying and agree with you. Personally I didn't know that Pascal runs so much hotter, even hotter than Hawaii GPUs, that shocked me.

I checked,out those laptops that you guys talked about, they both look slick and I can't speak about performance and thermals, I will take your word on that, but still you have to agree they are not on the same scale.

 

They are thicker,bigger more than a fraction of it, although their weight and specs are similar.

I can understand your need for unparalleled performance without any compromise but for me at least its not a price I am willing to pay for 15% less thermals and 12-18% more performance. That's just me though, but I truly believe if Razer can improve thermals by 5-8% , and add half of what i said in my original post,there wouldn't be a match on the market for a laptop this size.

If you need something so thin, you should take a weaker system. Something like the i5-6300HQ and a 1050. It's what suits the size. Saying it's fine for people to make and sell (especially overpricedly like Gigabyte and Razer do) machines that are designed to operate sub-optimally and at or near thermal limits under even relatively mediocre loads like gaming is what fuels the whole industry problem. The more those are lauded and the more they sell compared to the barely-even-thicker ones just perpetuates this exact scenario once again.

 

Nobody, and I do mean nobody, accepts products like those in any other device. Phone overheating, slowing down under basic usage? It gets slaughtered in reviews and by owners. Nobody buys cars that can barely reach their listed specs. Nobody buys anything like that. Nothing. Desktops would never get away with that either.

[Dackzy]

17 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Is there a different brand of laptop with thunderbolt 3 that would work with a Razer core besides a Razer blade (any of the versions of it) with less or no thermal issues?

basically every single TB3 laptop can work with the Razer core, but you need to make some work arounds, but why do you even want to eGPU? TB3 removes about 20-25% of the GPU performance and then if your CPU isn't powerful enough then you would just bottleneck the GPU and end up with maybe 60-70% of the original performance.

[Bleedingyamato]

6 minutes ago, Dackzy said:

basically every single TB3 laptop can work with the Razer core, but you need to make some work arounds, but why do you even want to eGPU? TB3 removes about 20-25% of the GPU performance and then if your CPU isn't powerful enough then you would just bottleneck the GPU and end up with maybe 60-70% of the original performance.

With how crazy fast thunderbolt 3 is how would it remove any GPU performance?

 

I was thinking that having a laptop would be a better option if I wanted to play PC  games at a friend's house since my mid-tower wouldn't be convenient to move around.  

 

But getting a more expensive laptop with a dedicated GPU presents a few issues:

1. A high end laptop GPU even a 1060 or better is not equal to a desktop version in performance.  This means it also would be insufficient quicker then a desktop GPU.  

 

2. A high end gaming laptop will put off a lot of heat which may cause thermal throttling and also be rather loud.  

 

My thinking is that getting a thunderbolt 3 laptop, preferably without a dedicated GPU to save money, to use with an eGPU would allow the laptop to be quieter and cooler when not gaming and the ability to swap cards in the eGPU enclosure would overcome the lower performance and lack of upgradability concerns that relying on a dedicated laptop GPU would have.  

[BuckGup]

Here are my 2 cents. The Alienware 15 and 17 both have 99Wh batteries, a 1060-1080 that aren't downclocked or thermal throttle. Same with the CPUs 6700HQ, well now 7700HQ and up, that don't throttle. It is heavy and not the thinnest but doesn't screw you over in parts. The lights can also be turned off. It also has IO that I would consider good. Ethernet, USB type C with thunderbolt, many USB 3 ports, headphone and microphone jack that are separate, mini displayport, HDMI 2.0 and the alienware adapter. It also has options for 1080 rather then 4K that sucks battery hard. Remember this is my opinion and I am certain others have differences. 

[Dackzy]

5 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

With how crazy fast thunderbolt 3 is how would it remove any GPU performance?

 

I was thinking that having a laptop would be a better option if I wanted to play PC  games at a friend's house since my mid-tower wouldn't be convenient to move around.  

 

But getting a more expensive laptop with a dedicated GPU presents a few issues:

1. A high end laptop GPU even a 1060 or better is not equal to a desktop version in performance.  This means it also would be insufficient quicker then a desktop GPU.  

 

2. A high end gaming laptop will put off a lot of heat which may cause thermal throttling and also be rather loud.  

 

My thinking is that getting a thunderbolt 3 laptop, preferably without a dedicated GPU to save money, to use with an eGPU would allow the laptop to be quieter and cooler when not gaming and the ability to swap cards in the eGPU enclosure would overcome the lower performance and lack of upgradability concerns that relying on a dedicated laptop GPU would have.  

well you can basically look at any benchmark with a eGPU over TB3, you see a 20'ish% performance loss.

 

1. That is because they don't turbo up to 1800-2000, but rather 1500-1600, because lower TDP.

 

2. Well Clevo, AW (unless you get a AW with a warped heat sink) and some MSI doesn't thermal throttle, unless you put them on cloth.

 

Actually TB3 isn't that gr8 at all, AWs eGPU solution is so far much better, but ofc it only works with alienware laptops.

The thing is that if you want to eGPU then you better have a 6820HK OCed or better in your laptop, why? because a 6700HQ holds back anything above a 1060, you can just try and downclock a desktop i7 to the same GHz and see what happens. Sadly there are very very few laptops with a quad core i7 and no dGPU, I have looked into that marked, because I don't GPU power in my laptop, but I need CPU power and a lot of it. A dell latitude 5k series 14" has a quad core option, but no TB3 and no support for AWs eGPU.

A ULV (CPU ending with U) has zero chance of not bottlenecking...

[Bleedingyamato]

2 hours ago, Dackzy said:

well you can basically look at any benchmark with a eGPU over TB3, you see a 20'ish% performance loss.

 

1. That is because they don't turbo up to 1800-2000, but rather 1500-1600, because lower TDP.

 

2. Well Clevo, AW (unless you get a AW with a warped heat sink) and some MSI doesn't thermal throttle, unless you put them on cloth.

 

Actually TB3 isn't that gr8 at all, AWs eGPU solution is so far much better, but ofc it only works with alienware laptops.

The thing is that if you want to eGPU then you better have a 6820HK OCed or better in your laptop, why? because a 6700HQ holds back anything above a 1060, you can just try and downclock a desktop i7 to the same GHz and see what happens. Sadly there are very very few laptops with a quad core i7 and no dGPU, I have looked into that marked, because I don't GPU power in my laptop, but I need CPU power and a lot of it. A dell latitude 5k series 14" has a quad core option, but no TB3 and no support for AWs eGPU.

A ULV (CPU ending with U) has zero chance of not bottlenecking...

I'm not entirely opposed to Clevo/Sager but my old Sager laptop (i7-920XM, 4GB RAM because I switched it to 32 bit W7 because I was worried about 64 bit causing gaming issues, GTX 285M 1GB, 1080P screen) while nice in specs has a shell that feels like cheap crap unfortunately and literally the worst battery life I've ever seen on a laptop.

 

Is Alienware any good or are they overpriced poor quality Dell crap? 

 

Would you know which thunderbolt 3 enabled MSI laptops don't throttle?

(Are the shells they use any good?)

 

It's not that having a dedicated GPU would be a deal breaker but I figure why pay for it unless I'd have to if I'm not planning to use it most of the time.  

 

I assume I could just build an itx desktop in a super small case and pair it with a small easy to carry around monitor and it would cost less but I'd prefer a laptop with an eGPU enclosure for a slightly more portable option.  

[Dackzy]

8 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

I'm not entirely opposed to Clevo/Sager but my old Sager laptop (i7-920XM, 4GB RAM because I switched it to 32 bit W7 because I was worried about 64 bit causing gaming issues, GTX 285M 1GB, 1080P screen) while nice in specs has a shell that feels like cheap crap unfortunately and literally the worst battery life I've ever seen on a laptop.

 

Is Alienware any good or are they overpriced poor quality Dell crap? 

 

Would you know which thunderbolt 3 enabled MSI laptops don't throttle?

(Are the shells they use any good?)

 

It's not that having a dedicated GPU would be a deal breaker but I figure why pay for it unless I'd have to if I'm not planning to use it most of the time.  

 

I assume I could just build an itx desktop in a super small case and pair it with a small easy to carry around monitor and it would cost less but I'd prefer a laptop with an eGPU enclosure for a slightly more portable option.  

The feel of the laptop have basically zero to do with the quality and Clevo has come a long way. Right now they have the best cooling and the best motherboards.

 

Alienware are good, but they have a heat sink problem, where the heat sink can be warped and then you get bad temps, but they are fine if the heat sink isn't warped.

 

Well the XPS 15 has TB3, same with MSI GS63VR, but you would have to do some work arounds to get eGPU to work and from what I have seen, it isn't easy at all.