Microsoft's tweaking the Windows 10 UI in "Project Neon"

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Agost said:

improve hi dpi scaling pls

You mean: Improve High-DPI for unsupported applications.

It has been improved with the coming up Creators Update. Text and elements are more sharp. Steam is as blurry mess as before, if you wondered.

 

You should complain to the devs of the software that don't support high-DPI. They might need to be reminded that 2012 has long past away, and high-DPI displays is common.

 

[LAwLz]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

You mean: Improve High-DPI for unsupported applications.

It has been improved with the coming up Creators Update. Text and elements are more sharp. Steam is as blurry mess as before, if you wondered.

 

You should complain to the devs of the software that don't support high-DPI. They might need to be reminded that 2012 has long past away, and high-DPI displays is common.

Not even Microsoft's own programs has proper support for high-DPI...

Face it, Window's APIs for high DPI are garbage. For crying out loud, even the official APIs you want developers to use only fetches the DPI info at user login, which means that if your resolution ever changes you will need to logout and login to refresh that info, or else you start seeing that terrible bitmap stretching again.

 

Microsoft has been saying that they have "fixed" the APIs ever since Windows Vista, but like clockwork they come out with an announcement that this time they have "fixed" the issues. These days even Microsoft themselves, after the anniversary update, say that they still haven't implemented all the things which might be necessary for developers to implement proper high-DPI scaling.

 

In the same blog post they actually describe the process they went though when trying to make some of their first party programs work well. If you read between the lines a bit, you can feel how frustrating Microsoft's own developers think it is (or as the developer himself describes it "pain").

In fact, it was so painful for them, and flat out broken, that they just gave up and redesigned the way Windows handles scaling (this was during the development of Windows 10).

 

Even if we ignore what Microsoft has said (that their current APIs are not enough for developers to fully update their desktop applications to handle scaling well), and we assume that the APIs are currently perfect, they were delivered extremely late. It's not been that many months since Windows 10 anniversary started rolling out (which fixed some major limitations with the APIs). You can't blame developers that "it's not 2012 anymore" when Microsoft only started providing them (and for many developers, still aren't) with the APIs needed a handful of months ago.

 

 

Link to the blog, and some relevant quotes from it:

Quote

[...] during the development cycle for the first release of Windows 10 we decided to start improving the way Windows handled dynamic display scaling by updating some in-box UI components, such as the Windows File Explorer, to scale correctly.

 

This was a great learning experience for us because it taught us about the problems developers face when trying to update their applications to dynamically scale and where Windows was limited in this regard. One of the main lessons learned was that, even for simple applications, the model of registering an application as being either System DPI Aware or Per-Monitor-DPI Aware was too rigid of a requirement [...]

 

[...]This helped us feel the pain that developers face when trying to adhere to the rigid model that Windows required of them.

Quote

[...] Lesson learned. It was clear to us that we needed to break apart this rigid, process-wide, model for display scaling that Windows required.

Quote

During the first Windows 10 release we developed functionality that would enable non-client area to scale dynamically, but it wasn’t ready for prime-time and wasn’t released publicly until we released the Anniversary Update.

Quote

The Windows 10 Anniversary Update delivers useful API for developers that want to update desktop applications to support dynamic DPI scaling in their applications, in particular EnableNonClientDpiScaling and SetThreadDpiAwarenessContext (also known as “mixed-mode”), but there is still some missing functionality that we weren’t able to deliver. Windows common controls (comctl32.dll) do not support per-monitor DPI scaling and non-client area DPI-scaling is only supported for top-level windows (child-window non-client area, such as child-window scroll bars do not automatically scale for DPI (even in the Anniversary Update)).

 

We recognize that these, and many other, platform features are going to be needed by developers before they’re fully unblocked from updating their desktop applications to handle display scaling well.

Quote

We recognize that there are still gaps in the DPI-scaling functionality that Windows offers desktop application developers and the importance of fully unblocking developers in this space.

 

 

[Bananasplit_00]

its not BAD but it sure isnt any better either

[Sauron]

6 hours ago, Wyzzy Moon said:

They're at least listening. I think this is what windows 10 should have looked like but let's hope for at least some consistency, that to me is more important than what design language the go for, that they are consistent with it (looking at you explorer)

Isn't it weird that the kde project has had this for years despite being foss and ms still has to get their crap together?

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, Sauron said:

Isn't it weird that the kde project has had this for years despite being foss and ms still has to get their crap together?

inb4 random rant about linux and terminals being bad for idiot-joe-sumers

 

yeah, completely agree. And funny thing: there's a distro named KDE Neon

https://neon.kde.org

 

 

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

On 06/01/2017 at 1:49 AM, TheKDub said:

Lenovo doesn't seem to have all the needed drivers available for download.

Look up what individual parts the laptop consists of, then look for drivers at the parts manufacturers' sites or on the download section of other laptops that use the same parts. 

 

When I wanted to upgrade my XP netbook to Vista (Win7 wasn't out yet) , Packard Bell didn't have any drivers for it either and their helpdesk told me it was impossible to get it working.  Took me a couple of hours to find them all but it was worth it ... if only to prove them wrong.

 

 

 

Slightly more on-topic :

8 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Microsoft has been saying that they have "fixed" the APIs ever since Windows Vista, but like clockwork they come out with an announcement that this time they have "fixed" the issues.

They also say that they're going to care about PC gaming and that the new version of Windows is the most secure ever, so I'm taking any of their claims with a mountain of salt. 

 

 

Of all the things that need fixing, they choose to focus on the UI.  I can't even ...

[Qub3d]

15 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

With aero and fraps, you can record your desktop. Great for tutorials or need to show a video on something you need help on. It stopped working since win8.

Dude. Use OBS. Its free and much more configurable.

[k9games]

surprisingly enough i quite like the design + im not really that bothered by windows 10 so i welcome the visual improvements - IMO

[handymanshandle]

Not bad. But I don't really use anything by Microsoft besides the OS itself.

[orangecat]

I know its not going to happen but I want them to ditch the old UI system for one that scales like Mac OS X.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

Would love to see more translucent UI elements make a come back.

[Sauron]

8 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

inb4 random rant about linux and terminals being bad for idiot-joe-sumers

 

yeah, completely agree. And funny thing: there's a distro named KDE Neon

https://neon.kde.org

 

 

knew about it, but I like arch ^^

[You_are_a_cunt]

For everyone with Groove Music not syncing from OneDrive: It only works in a handful of countries.

[LAwLz]

On 1/6/2017 at 5:11 AM, dalekphalm said:

What a cop-out comment.

On 1/6/2017 at 5:11 AM, dalekphalm said:

But I cannot understand your stance here.

 

Welcome to how I feel in most Microsoft-related threads.

You might say that Microsoft gets a bad rep around here, but this forum also has a large number of people who will defend Microsoft unconditionally.

[Audio Carnage]

Well done Microsoft!

Now, how about you fix your broken fucking piece of crap WDM Audio Architecture?

 

[deviant88]

Sadly these are just for the new UI apps, the explorer and older page elements will remain ugly foreever, making the OS have super pretty Store apps and super ugly old explorer, typicall from MS....

 

[Tieox]

Give it a few years and most of the controls users had back in Windows 7 will be restored to Windows 10.

 

People still won't be suited. and in the end it is each to their own. 

[Guest Darth Revan]

9 hours ago, Qub3d said:

Dude. Use OBS. Its free and much more configurable.

And it crashes a lot.

[AlTech]

11 hours ago, deviant88 said:

Sadly these are just for the new UI apps, the explorer and older page elements will remain ugly foreever, making the OS have super pretty Store apps and super ugly old explorer, typicall from MS....

 

Afaik, they are working on a new UWP explorer

[spwath]

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 7:45 PM, dalekphalm said:

Anyone else think that Groove now looks almost identical, UI wise, to Zune Desktop Player? Ahhh Zune... you were one of the best Desktop players out there for your time.

Zune literally is windows 10. but many years early.

[LAwLz]

6 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Afaik, they are working on a new UWP explorer

Oh God no... That would be absolutely horrible. How would that even work?

Goodbye customization. Goodbye proper GUI. Good bye changing file permissions (UWP can not run as admin, so for example changing file permissions, and reading/writing to protected folders like C:\Windows will not work).

Hello confused users. Hello slow animations.

[JohnnyCorporalTech]

But why is there a massive gap at the top of the window, such a wast of screen real estate. 

[MorganO]

looks nice, me likes

[JohnnyCorporalTech]

Does windows really need a UI upgrade? Why not focus your time and resources on fixing and adding other features Microsoft. Take a leaf out of Linux's book, where the UI is basically never changed and they focus all their RnD on actually useful stuff. 

 

Here's a few of ideas that could get you started: Fix Window's trash search feature, Improve stability on exotic hardware, fix security issues, make windows update the all inclusive driver update feature so that users dont have to go diking arround in a hundered different updaters and finally finish moving away from control panel and have all settings in one place.

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, JohnnyCorporalTech said:

Does windows really need a UI upgrade? Why not focus your time and resources on fixing and adding other features Microsoft. Take a leaf out of Linux's book, where the UI is basically never changed and they focus all their RnD on actually useful stuff. 

 

Here's a few of ideas that could get you started: Fix Window's trash search feature,

They're doing that as part of Windows by using more telemetry and by having Cortana. Except most people take this the wrong way and get mad.

1 minute ago, JohnnyCorporalTech said:

Improve stability on exotic hardware,

Exotic?

1 minute ago, JohnnyCorporalTech said:

fix security issues, make windows update the all inclusive driver update feature so that users dont have to go diking arround in a hundered different updaters and finally finish moving away from control panel and have all settings in one place.

I never touch control pane anymore....