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Steam - Hardware Survey - under represents VR

mark_cameron
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Posted
1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

I am asserting that it's (most likely) going to succeed because it's amazing. But that's not just my assertion, it's reproducible.

It's not reproducible it's just your completely subjective experience. That isn't evidence, that isn't even a good indicator. If that was the case we would just have 1 single band playing one single style of music cause it was objectively superior to all others and reproducible.

 

In my opinion is even harming your assertion of the situation because you liked it that much you can't see how it would fail, you can't see how others might not be impressed or interested enough to invest themselves in the experience.

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Posted
6 hours ago, Sakkura said:

Yeah I've been pretty disappointed by the LMG coverage of VR. The "why VR died" video was just... come on. And then Linus on the latest WAN show, not recognizing that November-December saw a bunch of new content launched (and Rift owners getting Touch controllers, with all the content that enables).

Don't forget about new ones that are in 4K now for sub $400

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 hours ago, Sakkura said:

It's not just a fad. And being only for gaming and entertainment doesn't mean something is a fad. Gaming and entertainment is a huge and permanent market.

Besides which, it isn't just for gaming and entertainment.

It's a fad because, it has caught everyones attention when it first game out and now it's meh. For gaming and entertainment, even though, it's are a huge market, it's leaning more towards leisure. Fun at first, then it gets boring and dies off.

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51 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

It's not reproducible it's just your completely subjective experience. That isn't evidence, that isn't even a good indicator. If that was the case we would just have 1 single band playing one single style of music cause it was objectively superior to all others and reproducible.

 

In my opinion is even harming your assertion of the situation because you liked it that much you can't see how it would fail, you can't see how others might not be impressed or interested enough to invest themselves in the experience.

It's not just my subjective experience. It's the subjective experience of most people who try it. That's a reliable indicator. It's the difference between me liking my brother's band and me + lots of people liking RHCP.

 

24 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

It's a fad because, it has caught everyones attention when it first game out and now it's meh. For gaming and entertainment, even though, it's are a huge market, it's leaning more towards leisure. Fun at first, then it gets boring and dies off.

Yeah VR caught everyone's attention and then it died off. Oh wait, actually this happened:

 

Spoiler

8J14om2.jpg

 

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7 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

It's not just my subjective experience. It's the subjective experience of most people who try it. That's a reliable indicator

 

  Reveal hidden contents

8J14om2.jpg

 

A subjective experience rarely is unless you actually post an extensive survey. Your assertion of "most people" it's still anecdotal evidence a. K. a.  Worthless. 

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1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

A subjective experience rarely is unless you actually post an extensive survey. Your assertion of "most people" it's still anecdotal evidence a. K. a.  Worthless. 

As opposed to all the people saying it's a fad based on ONE opinion...

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1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

As opposed to all the people saying it's a fad based on ONE opinion...

Nope, sorry to burn this straw man but is based on tepid sales, particularly of VR games.

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games for VR arent even the thing im looking forward to. its other entertainment like concerts, movies or WWE events.

VR vacations could also be a big thing, just walking around a famous place.

 

there are probably a ton of people very interested in VR, but theres not much to do with it yet, except for 2h games for 30 bucks.

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2 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Nope, sorry to burn this straw man but is based on tepid sales, particularly of VR games.

That's not evidence of how people evaluate the experience. Most people haven't even tried it, a lot of people can't afford it. Plenty of other reasons for the sales figures being what they are.

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I will be honest, I am actually deciding picking up a Vive solely on how well the Fallout 4 port goes. Yes it is expensive, but I really like Fallout 4.  I want a huge, in depth game for VR, most "games" seem like demos. I am glad Bethesda is taking their time to try and make it good. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

That's not evidence of how people evaluate the experience. Most people haven't even tried it, a lot of people can't afford it. Plenty of other reasons for the sales figures being what they are.

It's evidence of whenever it's good to result in paying the asking price. A better argument you should be making is that is hard to get people to demo it. 

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1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

It's evidence of whenever it's good to result in paying the asking price. A better argument you should be making is that is hard to get people to demo it. 

Most countries don't even have demo opportunities, so what do you expect. The average consumer isn't going to travel to another country to try out something they're unsure about.

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29 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Most countries don't even have demo opportunities, so what do you expect. The average consumer isn't going to travel to another country to try out something they're unsure about.

OK now this is something that I consider indicative of a larger issue: retail stores, specially for electronics, are less prevalent now. Vendors have mastered Internet stores now but once Amazon surpasses all other retail stores you need to find a way to showcase products. 

 

Apple store is a good example and I've seen guys like best buy doing express stores mostly aimed at showcase not warehousing goods is that's one plausible solution. 

 

Maybe VR needs more dedicated showroom booths 

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I really don't understand why this thread is trying to convince others VR is doing well.

If it was, VR would be all the rave on TV and in the retail stores.

Have you seen a demo VR for use in the big retailers?

No.....

So clearly something about the technology is not working for the mass consumer at the current time.

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Until we have a Star Trek holodeck, I'm just not interested in VR.

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4 hours ago, Bcat00 said:

I really don't understand why this thread is trying to convince others VR is doing well.

If it was, VR would be all the rave on TV and in the retail stores.

Have you seen a demo VR for use in the big retailers?

No.....

So clearly something about the technology is not working for the mass consumer at the current time.

4 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Maybe VR needs more dedicated showroom booths

 

there actually are VR demos in retail stores, at least in the US. notably Best Buy and the Microsoft Store. the former only has the Oculus Rift, the latter has the Vive. however the MS store really pushes VR to the public - there were like three demos in my local mall. one was plugged in a 70 inch TV and that Area 51 Alienware pc, and it was at near the front of the store. so lots of people stopped to watch.

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4 hours ago, Bcat00 said:

I really don't understand why this thread is trying to convince others VR is doing well.

If it was, VR would be all the rave on TV and in the retail stores.

Have you seen a demo VR for use in the big retailers?

No.....

So clearly something about the technology is not working for the mass consumer at the current time.

I don't think that's what OP is saying. As I've mentioned before, it seems like people expect VR to either be that mass consumer smash hit, or it's a total failure and dead forever. My opinion is that there are shades of grey in between that black and white. And the way I'm seeing it, it's slowly moving towards lighter shades.

 

My guess a year ago was that VR would become self-sustaining around 2018, and I think I'll stick to that. 2016 was just the beginning for VR, it was never going to be the year it went big.

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"Network speed - UNSPECIFIED" 

 

Very useful data :D but ay least they know it has gone up haha.

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1 hour ago, Sampsy said:

Distorted yes but not necessarily wrong. The VR headsets are very expensive, very much first-gen products with first-gen problems and there are very few (if any) games to play using them other than tech demos. I admit I am somewhat uninformed on the last point (I don't have a VR device so haven't been looking, but that is what I believe the situation is).

The content situation is improving. There was a lot of new content released in November-December, in part because of the Oculus Touch launch.

 

But there still aren't really full-scale AAA games. There are short or shallow games with AAA-like polish, and medium-long or medium-deep games with a little less polish. It's moving beyond tech demos, but it's still early days.

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1 hour ago, Sampsy said:

Distorted yes but not necessarily wrong. The VR headsets are very expensive, very much first-gen products with first-gen problems and there are very few (if any) games to play using them other than tech demos. I admit I am somewhat uninformed on the last point (I don't have a VR device so haven't been looking, but that is what I believe the situation is). But there are plenty of reasons why VR might not be doing very well.

 

I myself wouldn't consider buying a VR headset myself until:

 

  • The price drops significantly (I'm talking 50% +)
  • The quality of the device improves (higher res, higher refresh rate, better lenses, lighter etc)
  • There are games I actually want to play supporting VR which are actually better somehow using VR

As far as I can tell right now VR is another overpriced gimmick like 3D TVs. It may seem very impressive and exciting the first couple of times but once past the honeymoon period those small annoyances (visible pixel grid, uncomfortable) become big annoyances. Tech demos will no longer be interesting enough to bother using it and VR supporting games will either likely be bad, short, better without VR or won't exist at all. I fully expect if I bought a Vive right now I'd use it continuously for the first week, a little bit the second week and then it would be shoved in a drawer where it would be a £750 paperweight that would be awkward to use even for that purpose.

Wrong and misrepresentative.

 

Based on the fact that the survey neither checks for (i) unpowered VR hardware or related VR software nor (ii) asks the user if they have VR hardware

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12 hours ago, Bcat00 said:

I really don't understand why this thread is trying to convince others VR is doing well.

If it was, VR would be all the rave on TV and in the retail stores.

Have you seen a demo VR for use in the big retailers?

No.....

So clearly something about the technology is not working for the mass consumer at the current time.

This thread is doing nothing of the sort. Its pointing out that the STEAM Hardware Survey is faulty !

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