Z270 chipset diagram and 7700K+7600K leaked benchmarks

[Prysin]

17 minutes ago, DildorTheDecent said:

fucc yea. USA ports

 

NOW WITH MORE FREEDOM THEN THE USA 2.0 ports!!!

[Prysin]

8 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Yeah, I already know of his work. I too was already working on a -12v rail solution around the same time that he was, but I still couldn't get my hands on a review sample, let alone actually getting them to market. The only retailers that would even bother was in Germany, and shipping would have cost more than what the unit was worth. 

 

The delidding did the heavy lifting on that. Find me a retail water/air cooler (not any custom loops) that will dramatically drop temps by 30C, god knows you won't find one.

actually, you may be able to do it with a pure copper heatsink with a vaporchamber leading up to 6x 5mm copper heatpipes, leading up to a 140mm copper heatsink that is encased in a custom plastic shroud with a 2HP industrial leafblower blowing across said heatsink with a custom adapter for maximum seal.

 

and whilst all these things CAN be found over the counter. It wont be cheap as you would have to assemble it yourself..

[MageTank]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

actually, you may be able to do it with a pure copper heatsink with a vaporchamber leading up to 6x 5mm copper heatpipes, leading up to a 140mm copper heatsink that is encased in a custom plastic shroud with a 2HP industrial leafblower blowing across said heatsink with a custom adapter for maximum seal.

 

and whilst all these things CAN be found over the counter. It wont be cheap as you would have to assemble it yourself..

How does any of that fall under "retail air/water cooler"? lol

[MorganO]

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

Yeah, I already know of his work. I too was already working on a -12v rail solution around the same time that he was, but I still couldn't get my hands on a review sample, let alone actually getting them to market. The only retailers that would even bother was in Germany, and shipping would have cost more than what the unit was worth. 

 

The delidding did the heavy lifting on that. Find me a retail water/air cooler (not any custom loops) that will dramatically drop temps by 30C, god knows you won't find one.

he compared an aircooler  vs a water cooler and used different voltages so it was kinda BS 

[MageTank]

Just now, KOMTechAndGaming said:

he compared an aircooler  vs a water cooler and used different voltages so it was kinda BS 

In the forum post, he clarified that he did in fact use the same coolers and voltages, but that it was reported wrong. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/my-i7-7700k-has-arrived-insights-benchies-overclocks-inside-now-with-delid.2493250/

[MorganO]

2 minutes ago, MageTank said:

In the forum post, he clarified that he did in fact use the same coolers and voltages, but that it was reported wrong. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/my-i7-7700k-has-arrived-insights-benchies-overclocks-inside-now-with-delid.2493250/

fair enough, i stand corrected

[MageTank]

Just now, KOMTechAndGaming said:

fair enough, i stand corrected

I had the exact same opinion as you before someone brought the forum post up: 

 

[MorganO]

Just now, MageTank said:

I had the exact same opinion as you before someone brought the forum post up: 

 

we all make mistakes :), and in an answer to your question(there isnt a cooler probably)

[Albatross]

@NumLock21 could you spoiler tag some or all of the benchmark images? Super slowed me down when I first opened the thread.

 

Anyways, are these results supposed to be godly or something? Because it doesn't look like much of an upgrade at all.

[Prysin]

7 hours ago, MageTank said:

How does any of that fall under "retail air/water cooler"? lol

you can buy the parts in retail?

 

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, Prysin said:

you can buy the parts in retail?

 

But it's not a retail air/water cooler. Just because you can buy the parts separately, and ghetto-rig your own, doesn't mean it's a retail air/water cooler. You don't consider your PC a "retail gaming PC" do you?

[Prysin]

9 minutes ago, MageTank said:

But it's not a retail air/water cooler. Just because you can buy the parts separately, and ghetto-rig your own, doesn't mean it's a retail air/water cooler. You don't consider your PC a "retail gaming PC" do you?

I'm just making the point that you would have to get pretty extreme in order to make a air-cooler drop any temps by 30c.... Even custom loops would struggle to do that.

[MageTank]

Just now, Prysin said:

I'm just making the point that you would have to get pretty extreme in order to make a air-cooler drop any temps by 30c.... Even custom loops would struggle to do that.

Except you quoted me, using the word "actually" as if you knew of a retail cooler to do it. My point already spoke for yours, why try to refute it with nonsense? There is no retail air/water cooler (not a custom built one, retail in it's package) that will make this dramatic of a difference in temps. That is what my post said.

[Prysin]

14 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Except you quoted me, using the word "actually" as if you knew of a retail cooler to do it. My point already spoke for yours, why try to refute it with nonsense? There is no retail air/water cooler (not a custom built one, retail in it's package) that will make this dramatic of a difference in temps. That is what my post said.

oh you wanted the cooler in ONE box. i c...

 

[MageTank]

4 minutes ago, Prysin said:

oh you wanted the cooler in ONE box. i c...

 

8 hours ago, MageTank said:

The delidding did the heavy lifting on that. Find me a retail water/air cooler (not any custom loops) that will dramatically drop temps by 30C, god knows you won't find one.

 

[iFreilicht]

On 21/12/2016 at 11:43 PM, TheRandomness said:

Just saying, that FSP PSU doesn't actually have an 8 pin PCIe connector (iirc), but @iFreilicht is working something out afaik  

That is correct. MOQ is 300 though last time I asked, so we'll need quite a few people to buy one. And of course, the PSU doesn't have -12V rail, I'm working that out at the moment as well.

[bcredeur97]

My only question is -- should I keep my 3570k? Or is it finally an appropriate time to move on?

[Okjoek]

Sadly I don't think Ryzen will compete with Intel's newest stuff, but on the bright side there will atleast be competition on atleast some of the 14nm market even if it's not the newest stuff. I can live with a slightly weaker processor at 14nm whereas 28nm is just too old. So maybe even if AMD loses we consumers will still win 

 

That's my initial thoughts though.

[Prysin]

1 hour ago, Okjoek said:

Sadly I don't think Ryzen will compete with Intel's newest stuff,

you think??

[MageTank]

35 minutes ago, Prysin said:

you think??

I do think. Intel's newest offering is the exact same speed as Skylake, which is only 5-8% faster than Haswell at most (and DDR4 helps with that). If Zen brings Haswell IPC, while matching the new interfaces and platform features, it's gonna be nice competition. Pricing will be key, and we still don't know how it overclocks (something that will have to capture the enthusiasts). After seeing Intel's silly unlocked i3, and it's rumored price, AMD has plenty of room to fit a normal quad core (no HT) at it's usual 860k price (or even higher) and absolutely smash the budget gaming CPU market, undercutting both the i3's and i5's. Let's not forget the APU's too, which will likely take over the MMO/MOBA market, where demanding GPU's are not exactly required. AMD is opening themselves up to even compete with NUC's, by having extremely tiny, competent gaming machines that can be powered by a tiny power brick, and mounted to a monitor. This is all ignoring how well AMD already does in the mobile market with their APU's, which will undoubtedly get better as performance improves.

 

Even if Zen fails to compete with Broadwell-E, or can't quite deliver compared to Skylake, I still think it will compete. As much as @patrickjp93 and I disagree on many things, the one thing we agree on is that developers seriously under-utilize what our current CPU's are capable of doing. Besides, as higher resolutions become more popular, the CPU will become slightly less important for gaming, lol.

[patrickjp93]

5 hours ago, MageTank said:

I do think. Intel's newest offering is the exact same speed as Skylake, which is only 5-8% faster than Haswell at most (and DDR4 helps with that). If Zen brings Haswell IPC, while matching the new interfaces and platform features, it's gonna be nice competition. Pricing will be key, and we still don't know how it overclocks (something that will have to capture the enthusiasts). After seeing Intel's silly unlocked i3, and it's rumored price, AMD has plenty of room to fit a normal quad core (no HT) at it's usual 860k price (or even higher) and absolutely smash the budget gaming CPU market, undercutting both the i3's and i5's. Let's not forget the APU's too, which will likely take over the MMO/MOBA market, where demanding GPU's are not exactly required. AMD is opening themselves up to even compete with NUC's, by having extremely tiny, competent gaming machines that can be powered by a tiny power brick, and mounted to a monitor. This is all ignoring how well AMD already does in the mobile market with their APU's, which will undoubtedly get better as performance improves.

 

Even if Zen fails to compete with Broadwell-E, or can't quite deliver compared to Skylake, I still think it will compete. As much as @patrickjp93 and I disagree on many things, the one thing we agree on is that developers seriously under-utilize what our current CPU's are capable of doing. Besides, as higher resolutions become more popular, the CPU will become slightly less important for gaming, lol.

It's not like Intel can't just drop prices and/or expand their iGPU designs. This battle for AMD is way more uphill than people give it credit for imho.

 

As for the CPU mattering less in games, I think that's tragic. The 6700K on its own offers 700GFlops of total compute power (including the iGPU).

 

256/32 * 2 * 4 * 4.2*10^9 +

24 * 8 * 2 * 1.15*10^9 = 710.4*10^9

 

With the 7700K this expands to

 

256/32 * 2 * 4 * 4.5*10^9 +

24 * 8 * 2 * 1.3*10^9 = 787.2*10^9

 

And if Skylake E delivers on AVX512, even without an iGPU you're looking at something between:

 

512/32 * 2 * 6 * 3.8*10^9 = 729.6*10^9

and

512/32 * 2 * 10 * 3.2*10^9 = 1.024*10^12

 

That's just raw CPU-side flops. That's not insignificant considering there are parts of the graphics pipeline which are latency-sensitive.

 

And with Coffee Lake and Cannon Lake it's going to expand again, only this time with 6 cores AND GT2 AND AVX512 for sure.

 

512/32 * 2 * 6 * 3.8*10^9 +

24 * 8 * 2 * 1.3*10^9 = 1.2288*10^12

 

And I think that's pessimistic for Coffee Lake's CPU clock speed even with GT2 being there.

 

If we're going to go through mGPU, it's time devs actually made games truly heterogeneous. SIMD Rast is a thing as it is. Incorporating it into game engines as a supplementary pipeline shouldn't be too difficult.

[MageTank]

9 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

It's not like Intel can't just drop prices and/or expand their iGPU designs. This battle for AMD is way more uphill than people give it credit for imho.

 

As for the CPU mattering less in games, I think that's tragic. The 6700K on its own offers 700GFlops of total compute power (including the iGPU).

 

256/32 * 2 * 4 * 4.2*10^9 +

24 * 8 * 2 * 1.15*10^9 = 710.4*10^9

 

With the 7700K this expands to

 

256/32 * 2 * 4 * 4.5*10^9 +

24 * 8 * 2 * 1.3*10^9 = 787.2*10^9

 

And if Skylake E delivers on AVX512, even without an iGPU you're looking at something between:

 

512/32 * 2 * 6 * 3.8*10^9 = 729.6*10^9

and

512/32 * 2 * 10 * 3.2*10^9 = 1.024*10^12

 

That's just raw CPU-side flops. That's not insignificant considering there are parts of the graphics pipeline which are latency-sensitive.

 

And with Coffee Lake and Cannon Lake it's going to expand again, only this time with 6 cores AND GT2 AND AVX512 for sure.

 

512/32 * 2 * 6 * 3.8*10^9 +

24 * 8 * 2 * 1.3*10^9 = 1.2288*10^12

 

And I think that's pessimistic for Coffee Lake's CPU clock speed even with GT2 being there.

 

If we're going to go through mGPU, it's time devs actually made games truly heterogeneous. SIMD Rast is a thing as it is. Incorporating it into game engines as a supplementary pipeline shouldn't be too difficult.

Oh, they could, but you and I both know they won't. At the end of the day, they still have the superior product. They can still charge a premium for it, and since AMD spent the last few years doing nothing in the CPU world, Intel has gained all the recognition. I don't see any AMD commercials on TV, but I see Intel commercials every 30 minutes. AMD has been on record, saying they are tired of being the "cheaper option" but at this point, they do not have a choice. Not until Zen proves itself as competitive, even if it's only in a price:performance sense compared to Intel. 

 

All of the high end markets still trust Xeons over Opterons, and that is unlikely to change any time soon. Savings in the HPC market would have to be so vast, that even if AMD somehow gained some of that market share back, the margin of profits will likely be too low to matter. Their only hope for now, is targeting the mobile and budget gaming market, while hoping to win enthusiasts back with potential overclockability (which may or may not be a word). I am still holding out for a future where AMD sells either the CPU or GPU half of their company off, and focuses entirely on one thing. If Zen fails, that's likely their only option.

[Okjoek]

7 hours ago, Prysin said:

you think??

I do.

 

I also sort of like APUs. They're one of the places I feel AMD really shines actually. I've been leaning farther and farther from high end gaming myself so I'm excited to see what kinds of advancements AMD will bring to the iGPU market with Polaris on their Zen processors and I will consider making my first PC without a separate GPU.

[WaikikiSailor]

Still just 20 PCI lanes so I don't give a crap how fast they can overclock it. Their really is no good reason to even manufacture these high end mainstream chips. If you're going to drop coin on performance.. skip these little chips and go straight to the 2011-3 socket. And even then you need to skip the first chip in the series if you want the 40 PCI lanes. 

It's just a cheap marketing angle to get more money from those who don't know. But in reality, the 6700k and 7700k are pointless.

[Drak3]

30 minutes ago, LuckyDuck69 said:

Still just 20 PCI lanes so I don't give a crap how fast they can overclock it. Their really is no good reason to even manufacture these high end mainstream chips. If you're going to drop coin on performance.. skip these little chips and go straight to the 2011-3 socket. And even then you need to skip the first chip in the series if you want the 40 PCI lanes. 

It's just a cheap marketing angle to get more money from those who don't know. But in reality, the 6700k and 7700k are pointless.

6700K isn't pointless, clock for clock, it's single thread performance is better than any 2011-3 chip, and the money spent for the extra cores on something like the 5930K is just wasted for 90% of the gamers out there, as more than 4 cores is very rarely utilized, and even when it is, it's a marginal improvement at best.

Also, with Pascal not supporting more than 3way SLI, and there being no or excessively small gain going from 3.0x8 to x16, there isn't much reason to consider x99 from a pure gaming aspect.