MacBook Pro Razer Core compatibility in MacOS Sierra

[Clanscorpia]

On 12/17/2016 at 4:05 PM, Master Disaster said:

Excellent, so by patching official Apple kexts on the fly and editing DSDTs you can make Sierra work with something it should have worked with anyway. FTR both of these procedures would require the user disable SIP to carry out.

 

Its the equivalent of saying my wrecked Ferrari is still a great sports car, I only need to rebuild the engine and fix the hugely smashed bodywork first.

Why should it have support for a product made for another device from another company?

[sftgunner]

3 minutes ago, Clanscorpia said:

Why should it have support for a product made for another device from another company?

I dont think that the issue the poster has is with the lack of support for the Razer Core, but more that it doesn't have full support for Thunderbolt 3 - a technology Apple has been the main promoter of in the past.

[Master Disaster]

10 hours ago, Clanscorpia said:

Why should it have support for a product made for another device from another company?

The issue here isn't that they don't support XXX, its that they used to support XXX but then one day decided they didn't want to support it anymore so actively changed their software in order to remove support.

 

Anybody familiar with Apples business practices can guess what their motives were, they want to ensure their customers buy as many dongles and adapters from them as possible and as Thunderbolt allows device daisychaining it was only disabled by Apple to ensure customers spend more money with them at the checkout.

 

FTR dropping support for something when profit is the only motive (aka planned obsolescence) is not illegal but it should make people question the ethical standard of them as a company and yet they continue to sell millions upon millions of laptops every single year.

 

Apple are by far the most anti consumer technology company on the planet.

[Arri]

15 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

The issue here isn't that they don't support XXX, its that they used to support XXX but then one day decided they didn't want to support it anymore so actively changed their software in order to remove support.

 

Anybody familiar with Apples business practices can guess what their motives were, they want to ensure their customers buy as many dongles and adapters from them as possible and as Thunderbolt allows device daisychaining it was only disabled by Apple to ensure customers spend more money with them at the checkout.

 

FTR dropping support for something when profit is the only motive (aka planned obsolescence) is not illegal but it should make people question the ethical standard of them as a company and yet they continue to sell millions upon millions of laptops every single year.

 

Apple are by far the most anti consumer technology company on the planet.

*apple introduces MagSafe 2*

 

"lol, sheeple paying $50 for a glorified charger. proprietary connectors are so shit"

 

*apple responds by switching every single port to a universal standard*

 

"lmfao, sheeple love buying dongles. Apple's business practice is now a dongle company" 

[sftgunner]

9 minutes ago, Arri said:

*apple introduces MagSafe 2*

 

"lol, sheeple paying $50 for a glorified charger. proprietary connectors are so shit"

 

*apple responds by switching every single port to a universal standard*

 

"lmfao, sheeple love buying dongles. Apple's business practice is now a dongle company" 

Gotta say - @Arri does have a point! Haters gonna hate and all that... Just think that they could have implemented it slightly better - even 1 USB A and an SD card slot would have been enough. What bugs me is that so many people use a MBP for Final Cut X - as its 'on the fly' transcoding and rendering is (apparently) faster that Premiere.

[Master Disaster]

57 minutes ago, Arri said:

*apple introduces MagSafe 2*

 

"lol, sheeple paying $50 for a glorified charger. proprietary connectors are so shit"

 

*apple responds by switching every single port to a universal standard*

 

"lmfao, sheeple love buying dongles. Apple's business practice is now a dongle company" 

I think what you meant to say is Apple artificially removed the customers ability to make a choice about how they use their own equipment motivated out of nothing but profit margin.

 

How else do you explain them going out of their way to disable TB3 on Sierra? If they only adopted USB C as its a universal standard then why did they stop their customers from using TB3 adapters on the 2016 MBP? Oh, but you can use TB3 devices as long as they are manufactured less than x months ago?

 

What makes it even worse is the 2017 MBP will likely launch using an entirely different standard making everything 2016 once again incompatible without more adapters, assuming they don't one again impose artificial end of life to what ever accessories they see fit.

[suicidalfranco]

59 minutes ago, Arri said:

*apple introduces MagSafe 2*

 

"lol, sheeple paying $50 for a glorified charger. proprietary connectors are so shit"

too bad everyone and their cats praised apple for the magsafe.

Gotta love that everyone hates apple rhetoric people use here to defend apple

[sftgunner]

41 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

I think what you meant to say is Apple artificially removed the customers ability to make a choice about how they use their own equipment motivated out of nothing but profit margin.

 

How else do you explain them going out of their way to disable TB3 on Sierra? If they only adopted USB C as its a universal standard then why did they stop their customers from using TB3 adapters on the 2016 MBP? Oh, but you can use TB3 devices as long as they are manufactured less than x months ago?

 

What makes it even worse is the 2017 MBP will likely launch using an entirely different standard making everything 2016 once again incompatible without more adapters, assuming they don't one again impose artificial end of life to what ever accessories they see fit.

I see your point, but thankfully Apple don't release a completely new laptop every year - the 2017 MBP (if it even materialises, considering the 2016 appeared in November) will probably only include a slight spec bump with Kaby Lake CPUs. I do think that although they have a way to go in terms of using industry standards, USB C is a good first step for Apple, considering stuff like the lightning port, even if it doesn't fully support TB3. Again - this could actually be something we see either on the 2017/18 MBP, or in MacOS 10.13, introduced as a "revolutionary new feature"... We can only hope! 

[MarcusNohr]

Wow, I haven't tried) I think it's worth it)

[VerticalDiscussions]

Sounds like fun, altough the work that has to be done to just get your Macbook Pro compliant to such use, must be quite the hair itching...

[Clanscorpia]

8 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

 

 

Apple are by far the most anti consumer technology company on the planet.

Im guessing you have never heard of Intel, Nvidia, or Microsoft

[79wjd]

10 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

The issue here isn't that they don't support XXX, its that they used to support XXX but then one day decided they didn't want to support it anymore so actively changed their software in order to remove support.

 

Anybody familiar with Apples business practices can guess what their motives were, they want to ensure their customers buy as many dongles and adapters from them as possible and as Thunderbolt allows device daisychaining it was only disabled by Apple to ensure customers spend more money with them at the checkout.

 

FTR dropping support for something when profit is the only motive (aka planned obsolescence) is not illegal but it should make people question the ethical standard of them as a company and yet they continue to sell millions upon millions of laptops every single year.

 

Apple are by far the most anti consumer technology company on the planet.

Remind me again how my 5s supports ios10, meanwhile, Android phones are lucky if they see an upgrade at all. 

[sftgunner]

3 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Remind me again how my 5s supports ios10, meanwhile, Android phones are lucky if they see an upgrade at all. 

Fair point!

[Master Disaster]

13 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Remind me again how my 5s supports ios10, meanwhile, Android phones are lucky if they see an upgrade at all. 

And the reason for that is because Apple insist they keep full control over the hardware and software where as Google allow carriers to customise software to meet specific needs. Android is open source, IOS is yet another walled garden designed to keep customers spending money with Apple.

 

FTR back in 2015 Google mandated that all carriers MUST offer software updates for 2 years and security updates for 3 years from the date the device first went on sale. If your claiming that a device older than 3 years should be getting updated then your just making yourself look silly, heck after 3 years the battery will be all but dead.

[79wjd]

7 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

And the reason for that is because Apple insist they keep full control over the hardware and software where as Google allow carriers to customise software to meet specific needs. Android is open source, IOS is yet another walled garden designed to keep customers spending money with Apple.

 

FTR back in 2015 Google mandated that all carriers MUST offer software updates for 2 years and security updates for 3 years from the date the device first went on sale. If your claiming that a device older than 3 years should be getting updated then your just making yourself look silly, heck after 3 years the battery will be all but dead.

No, nothing is forcing you to buy another iOS device -- other than apps bought on the app store, but that applies to android as well. And iOS might be controlled by Apple, but that's still no excuse for Android manufacturers to give their phones shit support.

 

My 5s still handles ios10 just fine and the battery is also still just fine. There is no reason for Android to not get more than two years worth of updates, and I'm not really putting the blame on Google (although they could force manufacturers/carries to update at least the flagships), but rather the manufacturers for not updating their phones. That's more planned obsolescence than anything apple does. 

[sftgunner]

22 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

No, nothing is forcing you to buy another iOS device -- other than apps bought on the app store, but that applies to android as well. And iOS might be controlled by Apple, but that's still no excuse for Android manufacturers to give their phones shit support.

 

My 5s still handles ios10 just fine and the battery is also still just fine. There is no reason for Android to not get more than two years worth of updates, and I'm not really putting the blame on Google (although they could force manufacturers/carries to update at least the flagships), but rather the manufacturers for not updating their phones. That's more planned obsolescence than anything apple does. 

 

7 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

And the reason for that is because Apple insist they keep full control over the hardware and software where as Google allow carriers to customise software to meet specific needs. Android is open source, IOS is yet another walled garden designed to keep customers spending money with Apple.

 

FTR back in 2015 Google mandated that all carriers MUST offer software updates for 2 years and security updates for 3 years from the date the device first went on sale. If your claiming that a device older than 3 years should be getting updated then your just making yourself look silly, heck after 3 years the battery will be all but dead.

I think both of you have valid points, albeit from very different ends of the spectrum! While Android is, more open-source, especially with regards to routing/jailbreaking, this isn't the same as locking the end-user into a brand. Neither iOS, nor Android makes it specifically easier to switch from one to the other, or even to Windows Phone (if you are so inclined) - you still end up re-purchasing all your apps again, for a start, whatever you do. 

On a different note, although Apple typically has longer support for its devices (thanks to both the software and hardware designed by the same company), it is occasionally ill-advised - remember the iPhone 4 (which I remember being ridiculously laggy on iOS 7), and the 4S, which still received updates to iOS 9 (again, really laggy, and quite unpleasant to use). I think that Google's compromise with 2 years is probably a good one, but certainly with exceptions if Android goes through a massive design overhaul, à la iOS 7. Besides, not being on the latest software isn't actually that hindering. I still have an iPhone 3GS which I downgraded to iOS 4 on. It is still perfectly useable, despite being 6 software updates behind the latest flagship iPhone 7, even having support for most of the apps I use on a regular basis.

However, using the same example of the iPhone 3GS, I'm afraid that I must contest the 3 year battery-life claim. The battery life isn't significantly diminished from when it was my dad's new phone 7 years ago, and the same goes for my current iPhone 5S.

All in all, Apple and Android both have their differences, and are most definitely designed for different people. Personally, I've always viewed the iPhone as being the 'hands off' approach - where nearly everything works out of the box, with limited customisation, while an android phone is much better suited to the 'techie' or tinkerer. Anyway, that's just my (Jayz!) two cents, being eager to stop this thread dissolving into a typical Apple vs Android or Apple vs Windows thread.

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

No, nothing is forcing you to buy another iOS device -- other than apps bought on the app store, but that applies to android as well. And iOS might be controlled by Apple, but that's still no excuse for Android manufacturers to give their phones shit support.

 

My 5s still handles ios10 just fine and the battery is also still just fine. There is no reason for Android to not get more than two years worth of updates, and I'm not really putting the blame on Google (although they could force manufacturers/carries to update at least the flagships), but rather the manufacturers for not updating their phones. That's more planned obsolescence than anything apple does. 

Facetime? ICloud? iTunes? (OK iTunes isnt the best example as it is available on Windows but certainly not Android) Heck even Apple care is designed to keep you on an Apple device for as long as possible so you'll spend more in their closed ecosystem.

 

If I buy Skype credits I can use them on Windows, Mac, Android or iOS, if I buy Facetime credits can I use them on anything except a Mac?

 

If I buy Dropbox premium I can use it on anything I like, iCloud is Apple only.

 

If I buy music on Google Play I can log into my account on a Mac and download it. If I buy on iTunes I can ONLY access it on iTunes. iTunes is also an exception because its in Apples benefit to have Windows users buying music from it.

 

Literally every service Apple offer its users is designed to keep the user invested into Apples ecosystem and the longer you stay invested the more you lose when you decide to leave.

[sftgunner]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

Facetime? Icloud? iTunes? (OK iTunes isnt the hest example as it is available on Windows but certainly not Android) Heck even Apple care is designed to keep you on an Apple device for as long as possible so you'll spend more in their closed ecosystem.

 

If I buy Skype credits I can use them on Windows, Mac, Android or iOS, if I buy Facetime credits can I use them on anything except a Mac?

 

If I buy Dropbox premium I can use it on anything I like, iCloud is Apple only.

 

If I buy music on Google Play I can log into my account on a Mac and download it. If I buy on iTunes I can ONLY access it on iTunes. iTunes is also an exception because its in Apples benefit to have Windows users buying music from it.

 

Literally every service Apple offer its users is designed to keep the user invested into Apples ecosystem and the longer you stay invested the more you lose when you decide to leave.

All fair points - guess its the main reason I'm still using an iPhone! However, I'm not sure I entirely follow the point about Google Play - can't you access iTunes music on a PC as well? (correct me if I'm wrong!) Must agree that Windows is definitely much more open, which is one of the things I appreciate about Microsoft, emphasised by the examples you gave. I don't think that anyone can deny that Apple wants you to stay in their ecosystem - point most definitely taken! (Although strictly speaking Dropbox isn't owned by either Microsoft, nor Apple, but the example still works with OneDrive)

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Facetime? ICloud? iTunes? (OK iTunes isnt the best example as it is available on Windows but certainly not Android) Heck even Apple care is designed to keep you on an Apple device for as long as possible so you'll spend more in their closed ecosystem.

 

If I buy Skype credits I can use them on Windows, Mac, Android or iOS, if I buy Facetime credits can I use them on anything except a Mac?

 

If I buy Dropbox premium I can use it on anything I like, iCloud is Apple only.

 

If I buy music on Google Play I can log into my account on a Mac and download it. If I buy on iTunes I can ONLY access it on iTunes. iTunes is also an exception because its in Apples benefit to have Windows users buying music from it.

 

Literally every service Apple offer its users is designed to keep the user invested into Apples ecosystem and the longer you stay invested the more you lose when you decide to leave.

So apple offering a service people want or find useful is forcing them to stay with apple? And giving people the option to buy a warranty for a product is forcing them to stay with apple? Well, I guess all companies are anti consumeristic sellers of walled of garden. 

 

There are plenty of pains when switching between any and all platforms.

[Master Disaster]

10 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

So apple offering a service people want or find useful is forcing them to stay with apple? And giving people the option to buy a warranty for a product is forcing them to stay with apple? Well, I guess all companies are anti consumeristic sellers of walled of garden. 

 

There are plenty of pains when switching between any and all platforms.

Nope, offering a service they can only utilise on Apples platform is forcing users to stay with Apple.

 

Its 2016 and quite literally every single service offered by every body else is available on as many platforms as is possible yet Apple sell multiple services to their users which can only be used with Apple Hardware.

 

Please explain why I can use my Google Play account on a Mac yet I can't use my iTunes account on my Android device.

 

Please explain why I can use my one drive account on an IPhone but can't use my iCloud account on my Windows machine.

 

Same thing but replace one drive with Skype and iCloud with Facetime.

[sftgunner]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Nope, offering a service they can only utilise on Apples platform is forcing users to stay with Apple.

 

Its 2016 and quite literally every single service offered by every body else is available on as many platforms as is possible yet Apple sell multiple services to their users which can only be used with Apple Hardware.

 

Please explain why I can use my Google Play account on a Mac yet I can't use my iTunes account on my Android device.

 

Please explain why I can use my one drive account on an IPhone but can't use my iCloud account on my Windows machine.

 

Same thing but replace one drive with Skype and iCloud with Facetime.

@djdwosk97 Hate to say it, but for most of these examples (with a few exceptions...) @Master Disaster has a good point. Sticking exclusively with a MS viewpoint, they offer every service (that I can think of) on pretty much every platform. Apple & Android, however, are more limited. Neither offer substantial support for apps (if existent) on each other's platforms - like Master Disaster said, there is no support for any apple services (bar Apple Music, although I don't know if it has materialised yet) on Android, and although items such as Google Drive are available on iOS, still no Play store (for video), that I am aware of. Again, please correct me if I am mistaken. 

 

On a final note, can all of us agree to disagree - I can tell that we all have differing viewpoints here, and I have no desire to see this thread descend into an argument.

 

Edit: Merged two sentences by accident!

[suicidalfranco]

12 minutes ago, Gunner23 said:

@djdwosk97 Hate to say it, but for most of these examples (with a few exceptions...) @Master Disaster has a good point. Sticking exclusively with a MS viewpoint, they offer every service (that I can think of) on pretty much every platform. Apple & Android, however, are more limited. Neither offer substantial support for apps (if existent) on each other's platforms - like Master Disaster said, there is no support for any apple services (bar Apple Music, although I don't know if it has materialised yet) on Android, and although items such as Google Drive are available on iOS, still no Play store (for video), that I am aware of. Again, please correct me if I am mistaken. 

 

On a final note, can all of us agree to disagree - I can tell that we all have differing viewpoints here, and I have no desire to see this thread descend into an argument.

 

Edit: Merged two sentences by accident!

Apple Music is on android, movies bought or rented on google play can be played on any device through youtube and now that MS released Visual Studio for MacOS we can say that every single service that MS is available on more than one platform

[79wjd]

6 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Nope, offering a service they can only utilise on Apples platform is forcing users to stay with Apple.

 

Its 2016 and quite literally every single service offered by every body else is available on as many platforms as is possible yet Apple sell multiple services to their users which can only be used with Apple Hardware.

 

Please explain why I can use my Google Play account on a Mac yet I can't use my iTunes account on my Android device.

 

Please explain why I can use my one drive account on an IPhone but can't use my iCloud account on my Windows machine.

 

Same thing but replace one drive with Skype and iCloud with Facetime.

Okay, so apple offers their own set of services to be used exclusively with their own devices..... That doesn't force anyone to use an apple product. If an individual CHOOSES to use an apple product to use that service then that is there CHOICE and one they made because that Apple only service is superior for their specific use.

[Master Disaster]

7 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Okay, so apple offers their own set of services to be used exclusively with their own devices..... That doesn't force anyone to use an apple product. If an individual CHOOSES to use an apple product to use that service then that is there CHOICE and one they made because that Apple only service is superior for their specific use.

You know for a fact that's nonsense. The large majority of Apples users don't ever realise they have a choice in what services they use. Unless they are tech savvy they don't realise they can get a free one drive account, use Skype instead of Facetime etc. They'll go with what's included and once they do their stuck using Apple hardware.

 

From the second you turn your device on your immediately asked to sign up to iCloud but your never told there are alternatives which work across all devices, heck they don't even make it totally clear that you have a choice in signing up or not.

 

Need I remind you that in Europe MS are LEGALLY obligated to include an app that runs before IE or Edge to inform users there are other browsers available.

 

Remember I never said they force people to use their devices, I said they design their services to force people to stay on their platform once they're on it.

[79wjd]

7 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

You know for a fact that's nonsense. The large majority of Apples users don't ever realise they have a choice in what services they use. Unless they are tech savvy they don't realise they can get a free one drive account, use Skype instead of Facetime etc. They'll go with what's included and once they do their stuck using Apple hardware.

 

From the second you turn your device on your immediately asked to sign up to iCloud but your never told there are alternatives which work across all devices, heck they don't even make it totally clear that you have a choice in signing up or not.

 

Need I remind you that in Europe MS are LEGALLY obligated to include an app that runs before IE or Edge to inform users there are other browsers available.

 

Remember I never said they force people to use their devices, I said they design their services to force people to stay on their platform once they're on it.

That's not true though..... Most people don't care enough about iCloud for it to be the reason to stay with apple and most people know that Skype is an option. And that's true with a lot of the services apple offers. 

 

I have plenty of non tech savvy friends, and not one has ever mentioned iCloud or FaceTime as a reason they wouldn't switch. The only apple service I've been given (and is the reason I wouldn't switch is iMessage/text/call/FaceTime syncing between my phone and my Mac and it's not apples fault that there are no good alternatives.