What's up with coverage of AMD?

[Jamesuperfun]

A lot of people are getting pissed off (for good reason) that Linus is not treating AMD products fairly. I know, it sounds stupid, and I used to agree - but there's some really notable things here. He isn't specifically bashing AMD but sort of pretending they don't exist, or pushing their tech under the rug.

 

In the last week or so of videos, 3 things have stirred up controversy. The previous WAN Show ignored one of the biggest topics of the week, AMD's yearly major driver update, until after the outro (at which point it was half-arsed to say the least). The review of a Korean 100Hz FreeSync Curved Ultrawide monitor was done with an Nvidia GPU, there were 2 complaints about tearing and FreeSync was only acknowledged when reading the title of the product (and a terrible excuse was in the comments). In the most recent WAN Show, AMD's event showing a huge amount of Ryzen details and some Vega updates was discussed by mostly mocking the name and then talking about Thunderbolt in the new MacBook. 

 

There's a point where it just seems like some obvious avoidance of AMD products. Even if this is not deliberate, this sort of reporting is misleading - I'd hate to see the next 'fake news' debacle involve LTT. I'll elaborate on the 3 examples from the past week below with links and timestamps. Of course, on their own these aren't too significant, but considering there are now 3 examples in the last week that have got quite a few concerns, it's worth mentioning.

 

1. WAN Show ReLive: https://youtu.be/7oEpez1ruis?t=1h8m11s

This update is AMD's yearly major update and a very good example of a discussion worthy topic for the WAN Show. They added a much better built-in zero-overhead recording thing (and separated from Raptr), added WattMann support to older cards and more. The show had quite a few questions about it in the Twitch chat. They were acknowledged after the outro, at which point Linus just mumbled some specs from the download page and ended with "There ya go, now we covered it." Watch the segment, it's the most half-arsed coverage of anything I've ever seen.

 

2. Cheap Korean Curved Ultrawide Monitor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vvdvjralvs

This one is possibly the most damning. In this video, he takes a FreeSync monitor, says "You don't get the tearing resistance of GSync" (1m55s), uses an Nvidia GPU to test it (5m07s) and complains about tearing (5m50s). I've not facepalmed so hard in a while. Then in the comments, there's this lovely post: http://prntscr.com/di7bl9 Here he says no AMD GPU can run 100FPS on AAA titles so he wont and reviewed the monitor as if you used an Nvidia GPU with it. I shouldn't have to explain why this is bad reasoning (and why this should be explained in the video), but FreeSync is useful from 45FPS on this monitor, it offers higher refresh rates at lower resolutions, Furys can run games such as the tested CS:GO at that res no problem (which is what most people want them for) and there are countless other options like reducing the settings a little or just not running at 100FPS while testing that part of the monitor. It's also very clearly a monitor review, so he should test the features of said monitor, particularly since one would pair a cheap GPU with a cheap monitor. It's just such irrelevant reasoning, and there was a lot of flak for that given in response if you care to find the thread. 

 

 

3. WAN Show RyZen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6Hugyu2CME

In this video, he starts by covering the basics of Ryzen in the event which is fine, and then goes on to discuss the use of Thunderbolt (since it's an Intel-exclusive tech) and where it could be useful. I assumed at first the event would be returned to, but they moved straight on from it. There was no time given to discuss it, no mention of Vega, no mention of the surprisingly in-depth benchmarks they gave. The dislike bar shows this, as well as the top comments. This topic is by far the biggest of the week, but it was also glossed over and had an irrelevant Intel technology made the focus (as with GSync in 2).

 

I really like this content, but please, start covering AMD products fairly. It's pissing off quite a few of your viewers and preventing you from being considered a trustworthy source. The comments on YouTube are filled with people annoyed about this. The thread for #2 is also filled with complaints: https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/704937-microboard-korean-curved-ultrawide-100hz-gaming-monitor/?page=2 There was also a thread on the front page of r/PCMasterRace with some good discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/5hscps/linustechtips_has_been_showing_a_concerning_bias/

 

 

 

 

 

[JefferyD90]

6 hours ago, Jamesuperfun said:

"snip"

I'll be honest in saying a few things:

 

1) I didn't read your whole post

2) I don't think Linus is biased heavily against AMD, although I do think his personally alliance is with Intel/Nvidia

 

But, I really think its kinda pissy that Intel hasn't ever done a release like AMD does.  I mean when is the last time you remember there being a publicly broadcasted Intel release?  And when has Intel ever done a release this big?  They haven't is the short answer.  But yet its almost like a lot of the media outlets (other than PCPer and maybe 1-2 more) just simply don't care.  I think its mostly because people don't care about AMD other than the fact that AMD is suppose to lower the prices of the products they actually want.

 

PCPer EASILY has the least biased videos and news as far as I can tell.  All hail Ryan Shrout!

Edited December 17, 2016 by tobben
Removed massive quote.

[Wix]

^

Thanks for quoting his whole block of text; i would have never known that you were referring to him otherwise.

 

AMD is the underdog - that's why they need all the PR they can get.

[TAHIRMIA]

20 minutes ago, Jamesuperfun said:

A lot of people are getting pissed off (for good reason) that Linus is not treating AMD products fairly. I know, it sounds stupid, and I used to agree - but there's some really notable things here. He isn't specifically bashing AMD but sort of pretending they don't exist, or pushing their tech under the rug.

 

The review of a Korean 100Hz FreeSync Curved Ultrawide monitor was done with an Nvidia GPU

4

This is only because currently Nvidia GPU's and Intel CPU's are far superior to the current offerings of AMD. He isn't pushing them away he is just using powerful HW for his testing and is only waiting for new offerings from AMD

[Jamesuperfun]

1 minute ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

@JefferyD90 pls snip, your post is a pain for mobile users

 

I think the Freesync thing was pretty stupid of them, but it's hard to get excited over drivers tbh and RyZen really didn't tell us much, their "benchmarks" were hardly detailed OR well-explained, let alone well thought out (comparing the 6900k to the RyZen in games but then pinning it against the 6700k for streaming)

There just isn't enough hard data to talk about them, all we know is what they say (and if that's all you want to hear watch the New Horizons event)

I do think Linus is under covering AMD, but not nearly to the extent most people say

They did quite a few notable benchmarks, for example CineBench they put it up against the 6900k directly and provided the exact test they did so you can compare your results at home (and a 6900k to verify that). The performance is impressive, beating it before boost - worth a lot more discussion IMO.

[Jamesuperfun]

1 minute ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

Except they changed the settings from default, which is why even people with 6900ks couldn't get the same results

Ooh, I hadn't heard about this. Source?

[handymanshandle]

I can understand why Linus and by extension LMG doesn't talk much about AMD hardware and that's for the simple fact its not top tier performance and they devote most of their time to top tier stuff.

 

I think it's pretty pathetic though that maybe you and some others are getting pissy about LMG's coverage of AMD.

 

If AMD actually starts making better performing hardware as in hardware that can compete with Intel and Nvidia's highest offerings, I could see LMG using an AMD testbench alongside their Intel testbench, and do monitor reviews with like that monitor they just reviewed with AMD cards if AMD did make a card similar to like the Titan XP.

 

Linus's preference to gsync doesn't have to mean he's a fanboy or a shill.

[Guest]

Personally I do see the lack of AMD products shown. However LTT usually only does products he has his hands on, or is invited to. 

LTT did go to see the RX 480 when AMD was announcing it, however he didn't do anything reguarding it after the release. Luke did a video or 2 from free products they recieved from some 3rd party company. 

As for drivers, I don't watch the WAN show, (it's super long, and they just drone on in monotone (I watched 2-5 minutes of one, one time.)) so I've never seen LTT ever mention drivers except on a GPU release. 

As for the "LTT might be personally aligned" or "A biased news source" there was an april fools thing saying something about how they were aquired by Nvidia, so it is possible they masked their truth in a joke somehow. But I doubt that to be true. I'm just conspiricising. Until the small hardware users I watch (Science Studio now named Salzar Studio) get their hands on a CPU and show me what it's actually like, I don't care. I'm just waiting for review merchandise to be thrown out to the public. Otherwise, my i5 is all I need. I have no trouble playing the games I have now, and half the time my pc is just on, not doing anything. It has to be cost effective for me to care, so it's kinda justified in the lack of communication LTT is giving on the AMD front. They don't have enough info to cover that Ryzen or ZEN is going to be much. 

Remember when AMD said their RX series was going to destroy Pascal? It lost terribly. 
I did watch the AMD video on their website comparing their zen to an i7 something or other. It's a very expensive CPU whether or not it's being cheaper than an expensive intel chip. 

[CDHoward]

On 17.12.2016 at 1:20 PM, Jamesuperfun said:

"snip"

As we know, Linus and Luke are full-blooded Intel fanboys (as is the vast majority of the forum). They probably don't want to damage the special relationship. Either way, it's good to see Intel fanboys Triggered as Zen, the complete Intel smasher, approaches lel

Edited December 18, 2016 by tobben
Removed massive quote.

[CDHoward]

1 minute ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

first off, STOP BLOODY QUOTING THE ENTIRE OP

also, dismissing people who don't agree with you as fanboys is a little ironic, don't ya think?

Not really, mate

[Chaos_Sorcerer]

It's because of the fact that people haven't seen AMD really smash in a long time. As a result, Nvidia and Intel content simply attracts more viewers. It's as easy as that.

 

Hopefully, Vega and Zen will bring something new to the table. It would be great if Vega could at least match the performance of the top-tier Nvidia cards, or, even better, match the performance at a lower price. 

[HKZeroFive]

I genuinely don't believe Linus is biased but some would disagree... namely a lot of people from /r/AMD. Although I definitely do think he has his preferences... but who doesn't? Half of this forum loves and praises AMD.

 

But is he a decent reviewer? Should I take his opinions seriously? Short answer: not really.

 

The biggest flaw with Linus is his testing methodology. When you're practically the biggest 'tech' channel on YouTube, you'd think that they would put more effort in their videos than others... considering it's a whole bloody team of people that are involved.

 

And yet, they're so half-arsed. For example, the RX 480 review. Only four bloody games were used and I don't believe they even measured the minimum framerate. Come on... Hardware Unboxed with their 40,000 subs did much better than that. And about that Korean monitor incident, what sort of excuse is 'no AMD card can run 100Hz'? The fact he tried to defend himself speaks volumes.

 

Off the top of my head, here's a few websites/channels that do a better job - GamersNexus, Tom's Hardware, AnandTech, TechPowerUp, Digital Foundry/Eurogamer... even HardOCP with their somewhat questionable Editor-In-Chief, Mr. Bennett, does a much better job than LMG.

 

As entertainment goes, LMG does deliver there. For instance, their monster builds and projects such as watercooling an entire room or a good ol' episode of Scrapyard Wars are great. But if I wanted actual insight into a certain product, I would not recommend LTT at all. Sorry, but for a channel with over 3 million subs whilst also arguably having a significant influence on a large portion of consumers, it's simply not good enough.

 

*Cue end of rant.

[Nuluvius]

One could surmise that the declining trend of AMD coverage is proportional to the rate at which it is falling behind - put concisely it's simply becoming a nonviable choice these days, especially considering native support for HEVC main 10.

[Alaa]

4 hours ago, CDHoward said:

full-blooded Intel fanboys (as is the vast majority of the forum).

The quoted dude made a great point but you ruined it with that sentence.

[Alaa]

1 hour ago, HKZeroFive said:

2 long 2 quote

What YouTube channel would you recommend then?

[XenosTech]

5 hours ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

People were finding the results a little odd,  turns out they changed it from the default 200 samples to 100. The performance is still impressive, and yes it did hold its own and almost complete the test as fast as the 6900k, but not saying anything and letting the public run it at the default 200 samples was very misleading. 

the sample was 150 not 100

[TAHIRMIA]

Why hasn't this been locked yet lol.

it is a small start to a fan boy war

[Nuluvius]

Just now, TAHIRMIA said:

Why hasn't this been locked yet lol.

it is a small start to a fan boy war

How can there be a war when one side has already lost... It's objectively proven in the difference of technology levels.

[TAHIRMIA]

3 minutes ago, Nuluvius said:

How can there be a war when one side has already lost... It's objectively proven in the difference of technology levels.

Fan boys from both sides will try to defend AMD or Intel and Nvidia. It happens a lot 

Quote

• This includes flame wars such as Microsoft vs Apple, NVIDIA vs AMD, Intel vs AMD

 

 

[Nuluvius]

39 minutes ago, TAHIRMIA said:

Fan boys from both sides will try to defend AMD or Intel and Nvidia. It happens a lot 

 

You seem to be trying to say that I am in breach of the forum rules by commenting on the speculative reasons as to why there is less coverage of AMD based on quantitative objective evidence in the form of the large technological gulf that is present. This is not the same thing as making a statement that one is better than the other.

[TAHIRMIA]

1 hour ago, Nuluvius said:

You seem to be trying to say that I am in breach of the forum rules by commenting on the speculative reasons as to why there is less coverage of AMD based on quantitative objective evidence in the form of the large technological gulf that is present. This is not the same thing as making a statement that one is better than the other.

 

I'm not all I am saying is that these things normally start fights 

[Nuluvius]

14 minutes ago, TAHIRMIA said:

I'm not all I am saying is that these things normally start fights 

Indeed... and I'm putting forth the supposition that it would be a rather one sided battle - without actually venturing into any particular territories of course.

[HKZeroFive]

8 hours ago, Alaa said:

What YouTube channel would you recommend then?

Basically these websites/channels:

10 hours ago, HKZeroFive said:

GamersNexus, Tom's Hardware, AnandTech, TechPowerUp, Digital Foundry/Eurogamer... even HardOCP with their somewhat questionable Editor-In-Chief, Mr. Bennett, does a much better job than LMG.

Only GamersNexus and Digital Foundry have actual YouTube channels but they're good if you want a decent insight into a certain product.

 

I also forgot to add PCPer to that list. They're good as well.

[Praesi]

If AMD will offer something worth talking about, im sure Linus and his Buddys will do so.

[XenosTech]

LTT stopped being my go to channel for reviews when

1) I actually used some of the stuff for myself and noticed it wasn't as cut and dry as they put stuff.

2) The quality of the reviews started going down.

3) Found other smaller tech channels that give WAY better reviews on a product that don't feel like it's low key bias.

4) I couldn't recommend vids and swear by them anymore.

 

LTT may not be the greatest but they are the largest and they should put  way more effort into reviews since you know how those viewer go to other smaller channels an make it seem like LTT's review is law.