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Delidding Intels 7700k drops temps by almost 30C

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4 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

5GHz quad-stick 4266MHz DDR4, no delid, 95C tops :)

I know you were making a joke, but I want to point out: they don't make a board that can handle 4 DIMMS of 4266mhz. Not only that, but your IMC would either scream at the thought of training DPC timings (_DD timings), or your bandwidth would be nullified by how loose you'd have to manually make them in order for you to be able to post at that speed on 4 dimms. At 3600 C14-14-14-28-2, I already beat most XMP 4000 kits. 

 

Keep in mind, the DDR4 4266 kits are almost always Samsung B die at the moment. The only boards that can handle these 4266 sticks at their XMP without issues, as far as trace quality goes, are the ROG Impact VIII, and Asrock Z170M OC Formula. Neither of these two boards are quad dimm. Now, I've seen some miracles when it comes to memory overclocking, but what you suggest is nearly impossible on the boards currently available to Skylake. 

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MageTank said:

but I want to point out

oh man , are you never getting sick of him ? :P 

 

on the actual topic ,

  • cpu gets delidded
  • tim is shit 
  • tim gets replaced
  • wuzzah we get better temps
  • who would have thunk it

38cU5Q.gif

 

 

 

(he pobably runs that DDR4 on his delidded Pentium 4)

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1 minute ago, Space Reptile said:

oh man , are you never getting sick of him ? :P 

 

on the actual topic ,

  • cpu gets delidded
  • tim is shit 
  • tim gets replaced
  • wuzzah we get better temps
  • who would have thunk it

 

 

 

 

(he pobably runs that DDR4 on his delidded Pentium 4)

Sick? Not really. Sometimes I get bored, but that's about it. 

 

I used to run heavily overclocked ram on a Pentium G4400, and I have 2 delidded G3258's, lol.

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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This is why you delid:

Untitled4.png

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

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9 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Sick? Not really. Sometimes I get bored, but that's about it. 

damn I want a G3258 , sadly there still somewhat expensive (70 bucks) :/ 

 

 

edit:

@Dabombinable , if you need to delid a 130w intel chip to keep it calm temp wise , I don't know how I kept my 125w phenom cool*  , dunno maybe the tim just didn't suck :P 

 

*(1.55v , 3.7ghz near 150+watts , 60c under full load)

RyzenAir : AMD R5 3600 | AsRock AB350M Pro4 | 32gb Aegis DDR4 3000 | GTX 1070 FE | Fractal Design Node 804
RyzenITX : Ryzen 7 1700 | GA-AB350N-Gaming WIFI | 16gb DDR4 2666 | GTX 1060 | Cougar QBX 

 

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30 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Even then. Remember, that the heat from the CPU will spread from the socket+pins through the PCB's copper....

 

22 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I know you were making a joke, but I want to point out: they don't make a board that can handle 4 DIMMS of 4266mhz. Not only that, but your IMC would either scream at the thought of training DPC timings (_DD timings), or your bandwidth would be nullified by how loose you'd have to manually make them in order for you to be able to post at that speed on 4 dimms. At 3600 C14-14-14-28-2, I already beat most XMP 4000 kits. 

 

Keep in mind, the DDR4 4266 kits are almost always Samsung B die at the moment. The only boards that can handle these 4266 sticks at their XMP without issues, as far as trace quality goes, are the ROG Impact VIII, and Asrock Z170M OC Formula. Neither of these two boards are quad dimm. Now, I've seen some miracles when it comes to memory overclocking, but what you suggest is nearly impossible on the boards currently available to Skylake. 

Yeah they do, you just need to get things chilly.

 

Pretty sure the M Power boards can handle it just fine.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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14 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

(he pobably runs that DDR4 on his delidded Pentium 4)

WHO TOLD YOU?!

 

Actually no, it's on my I7 7970X which you noobs won't get access to for another 6 months b/c ur NOOBS!

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

 

Yeah they do, you just need to get things chilly.

 

Pretty sure the M Power boards can handle it just fine.

Those boards are only acceptable for starting fires, lol. 

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

 

Yeah they do, you just need to get things chilly.

 

Pretty sure the M Power boards can handle it just fine.

Temps aren't the primary issues, its the fucking horrid fan (I will be upgrading to a 240mm rad at some point):

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Cases-and-Cooling/Cooler-Master-Seidon-120V-Liquid-CPU-Cooler-Review/Noise-Results-and-Furth

 

The fan when anything is put in front of it gets extremely loud.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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4 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Those boards are only acceptable for starting fires, lol. 

So if I'd gone with one over the Sabertooth MKII, I could have expected fires with the power my 4790K is drawing outside of Prime95 (refer to the SS above)?

9 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

damn I want a G3258 , sadly there still somewhat expensive (70 bucks) :/ 

 

 

edit:

@Dabombinable , if you need to delid a 130w intel chip to keep it calm temp wise , I don't know how I kept my 125w phenom cool*  , dunno maybe the tim just didn't suck :P 

 

*(1.55v , 3.7ghz near 150+watts , 60c under full load)

 

TL;DR, Haswell's FIVR combined with the TIM makes managing temperatures a nightmare compared to older CPU pre Ivybridge.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

So if I'd gone with one over the Sabertooth MKII, I could have expected fires with the power my 4790K is drawing outside of Prime95 (refer to the SS above)?

I honestly don't know. MSI boards and combustion has been a running gag for years in the overclocking community. My cousin has a Z170 Gaming M5 though, and it seems okay. I have seen some pretty bad reviews on the Z77 and AM3 boards though.

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I honestly don't know. MSI boards and combustion has been a running gag for years in the overclocking community. My cousin has a Z170 Gaming M5 though, and it seems okay. I have seen some pretty bad reviews on the Z77 and AM3 boards though.

Like this?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1548326/good-cheap-am3-board-for-220w-fx-cpu-or-oc-the-8320-to-5ghz/190

 

I think they are missing overload+overtemp protection.

 

Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by iRUSH View Post

It seems like the intel socket 1155 and newer boards vs the AM3 and newer counterparts different in quality. Either that or the AMD CPU's really stress a motherboard out with their power draw. Which is it?

Seeing blown out mosfets and melted caps troubles me. It's a weird scenario where AMD = "budget" yet their heat output for the mediocre enthusiast commands the top ASUS board and extravagant cooling. I just don't get it.

It's just that MSI insists on using NIKOS mosfets on AM3+, while it doesn't do so on Intel motherboards. See here. Only Asrock and MSI use D-PAKs on Intel and only MSI uses Nikos on only 1 board (while on AM3+ it's on all boards minus the GD80 and MAYBE the GD65):

http://sinhardware.com/images/vrmlist.png

Now, it's no secret that Nikos lacks quality. That's why all other manufacturers stay clear from it. MSI also knows it, which is why it tries on newer AM3+ boards to use a LOT of Nikos mosfets per phase (when you lack quality, you try to go with quantity). Unfortunately, even by going with quantity, when you overclock, it arrives a point, when quality matters again. Because over the years, Nikos mosfets have shown that they suffer in tolerating heat. And thus, even when you put a lot of them on the board, there is always the risk, that one of them, once heated up well, goes kaboom.

For some reason, MSI, just doesn't want to quit using Nikos on AM3+. Is it that they have a long standing contract? Are they sister companies or something? I really don't know... I only know that i 'd rather buy Asrock for AM3+ than any MSI that sports Nikos mosfets.

Also the implementation of VRM protection by MSI, still needs work. Have you ever seen a motherboard implementing VRM protection in this convoluted way???
Quote:
1. AMD has claimed that the FX-8350 to be 125W. However, during our internal testing, when the usage of CPU reaches 100% through Prime 95 for a while, the power consumption can exceed 125W and reaches 140W. With such condition on the 970A-G46, the high amount of power draw also causes the MOSFET to exceed its spec and will overheat.

Thus, to prevent such any potential hazard to the MOSFET, 970A-G46’s BIOS will trick the processor that its temperature is 225 degrees which will then allow the CPU to throttle. This is aimed to make the system stable in this condition.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=34588633&postcount=24

Things IMHO in motherboard manufacturing, are simple. Sin's hardware list make it quite clear. All companies make them in the same countries for cheap labour. So in order to undercut the competitor in prices, you need to cut costs somewhere. MSI is investing heavily on looks lately. But then you must cut costs elsewhere. This "elsewhere" is VRM. So they make nice looking motherboards, but to keep costs down, they put Nikos on VRM. Lot of them, but still aren't enough. It also says something about the quality of Nikos.

EDIT:
It is no coincidence that in AM3+ motherboards that sport "military class" (lowest bidder) components, they never mention the mosfets. You see "super duper dark caps!" , "awesome SFC chokes!". But you never see "supreme quality Nikos mosfets!". biggrin.gif
Edited by Undervolter - 5/9/15 at 1:38am

 

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Like this?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1548326/good-cheap-am3-board-for-220w-fx-cpu-or-oc-the-8320-to-5ghz/190

 

I think they are missing overload+overtemp protection.

 

To be fair, that CPU had no business being on that board in the first place, lol.

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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Just now, MageTank said:

To be fair, that CPU had no business being on that board in the first place, lol.

Still, MSI using mosfets that are known to be utter shit, especially at high temps, doesn't help.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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4 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

TL;DR, Haswell's FIVR combined with the TIM makes managing temperatures a nightmare compared to older CPU pre Ivybridge.

that is true , I have yet to see a cpu heatspreader & tim as good as on Amd phenom / FX and sandy/ivy ,

I mean my haswell Celeron I got for testing went up to 70c  when I ran it passevly on a tower cooler whilst a sandy based Celeron rated at the same wattage ( and pulling about the same according to coretemp)  only went up to about 45c on the same cooler using the same program and the same MX2 paste

RyzenAir : AMD R5 3600 | AsRock AB350M Pro4 | 32gb Aegis DDR4 3000 | GTX 1070 FE | Fractal Design Node 804
RyzenITX : Ryzen 7 1700 | GA-AB350N-Gaming WIFI | 16gb DDR4 2666 | GTX 1060 | Cougar QBX 

 

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1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Still, MSI using mosfets that are known to be utter shit, especially at high temps, doesn't help.

I have to admit I'm way out of practice as an overclocker, but where's the source material on who makes the best boards based on mosfets and choke quality?

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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1 minute ago, Space Reptile said:

that is true , I have yet to see a cpu heatspreader & tim as good as on Amd phenom / FX and sandy/ivy ,

I mean my haswell Celeron I got for testing went up to 70c  when I ran it passevly on a tower cooler whilst a sandy based Celeron rated at the same wattage ( and pulling about the same according to coretemp)  only went up to about 45c on the same cooler using the same program and the same MX2 paste

I need to go X99 for that soldered on IHS goodness.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

I need to go X99 for that soldered on IHS goodness.

nekid mount or gtfo.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

I need to go X99 for that soldered on IHS goodness.

don't X99 6850´s and the like go almost 300w when you go ham on them? , from what I heard they go reaaaaaally off the rails when you give em more , they'll take everything you can give em to go a few hundred more MHz

RyzenAir : AMD R5 3600 | AsRock AB350M Pro4 | 32gb Aegis DDR4 3000 | GTX 1070 FE | Fractal Design Node 804
RyzenITX : Ryzen 7 1700 | GA-AB350N-Gaming WIFI | 16gb DDR4 2666 | GTX 1060 | Cougar QBX 

 

PSU Tier list

 

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1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

nekid mount or gtfo.

I'm not putting my 4790K through the naked die treatment, since they have gotten shitloads weaker since the days of the Pentium 3.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

I'm not putting my 4790K through the naked die treatment, since they have gotten shitloads weaker since the days of the Pentium 3.

wuss. People naked mount 6950Xs, and those are 30% thinner.

 

1 minute ago, Space Reptile said:

don't X99 6850´s and the like go almost 300w when you go ham on them? , from what I heard they go reaaaaaally off the rails when you give em more , they'll take everything you can give em to go a few hundred more MHz

Gee, I wonder why IBM can only handle 12 cores at 4.3-4.7GHz in a 300W TDP...

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

wuss. People naked mount 6950Xs, and those are 30% thinner.

 

Gee, I wonder why IBM can only handle 12 cores at 4.3-4.7GHz in a 300W TDP...

People with 6950X who do the delliding+run them naked, can afford to replace them at least once.....if I run mine naked and screw up, I'll be stuck with my Xeon X5450+6GB DDR2-and that thing requires a shitload of power+cooling to match my old i5 4440, which was replaced because it was inadequate.

"We also blind small animals with cosmetics.
We do not sell cosmetics. We just blind animals."

 

"Please don't mistake us for Equifax. Those fuckers are evil"

 

This PSA brought to you by Equifacks.
PMSL

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Just now, Dabombinable said:

People with 6950X who do the delliding+run them naked, can afford to replace them at least once.....if I run mine naked and screw up, I'll be stuck with my Xeon X5450+6GB DDR2-and that thing requires a shitload of power+cooling to match my old i5 4440, which was replaced because it was inadequate.

Get more muhnehs brah.

Software Engineer for Suncorp (Australia), Computer Tech Enthusiast, Miami University Graduate, Nerd

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1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

I have to admit I'm way out of practice as an overclocker, but where's the source material on who makes the best boards based on mosfets and choke quality?

Honestly, everyone these days use very similar configurations. This post from OCN will help a ton in that regard: http://www.overclock.net/t/1572028/z170-vrm-discussion-thread#post_24400374

 

My Z170 ITX AC Fatality board uses the exact same power delivery as the Z170 OCF when it comes to 60A chokes, and IR35201 as a controller. As for the phases themselves, they often use multiple IR3598 doublers. EVGA uses a very similar setup to this on their Z97 and Z170 Classified boards, with them opting for IR3570B's on top of the IR35201's. 

My (incomplete) memory overclocking guide: 

 

Does memory speed impact gaming performance? Click here to find out!

On 1/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, MageTank said:

Sometimes, we all need a little inspiration.

 

 

 

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