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‘I’m Here to Help,’ Trump Tells Tech Executives

captain_to_fire
By captain_to_fire
in Tech News
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2 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

Also, I do think a lot of people are confusing the conservatives being against net neutrality as an ultra capitalism stance, but it's not. Their logic, which is completely fair, is that they don't want the government controlling everything to do with consumers as much as possible. This is why they were against ObamaCare as well. They want a free and open market within reason.

I'm not an economist nor someone fully cognizant of economic affairs but I don't really think that there's such a thing as a true "open market" ala Adam Smith. Besides, is it really moral to control which service in my Internet connection to receive more or less bandwidth? Remember that majority of ISP's don't advertise that you'll get 10x more speed on HBO and 5x less speed on YouTube. They've sold an internet connection on the premise that regardless of the website someone visited, all data flowing through their pipes will be given the same priority and speed. 

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25 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Do you actually understand what Net Neutrality means? I means that all data passing through their network will be treated equally. It has nothing to do with the throttling of speed after hitting a data cap.

 

Assuming that your ISP is AT&T U-Verse. Whether you watch Game of Thrones from HBO or House of Cards from Netflix, it will have the same speed. Which means AT&T can't give more bandwidth to HBO nor can they throttle Netflix streaming. 

 

Further listening: https://archive.org/details/NetNeutralityDoubleRant

Do you really think they abide by it though? 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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3 minutes ago, Albatross said:

Especially since a Putin close aide basically confirmed that if Hillary won, it would have been war. She was too ready to point fingers and accuse Russia of crimes she had no evidence for (regardless of what her lackeys in the CIA lies about).

Not wanting to derail this thread on a single comment by an uninformed person(s) any futher than I have already, I'll just finish it up by staying this.

1. You're absolutely right. Why the mainstream media can refuse to talk about the tensions between us and russia and how its past cold war levels right now is absolutely abhorrent. The bulk of america doesn't even realize that we bombed a god damned russian allied base only a couple months ago, and when russia demanded an answer, all clinton's group could do was say 'Oh, yea, that was our bad lol.'

A military airstrike isn't exactly carried out against a fortified military base without knowing exactly who's base that is. We knew damn well who was running it, but did it anyway because we don't like russia being in Syria.

2. Clinton has been pushing hard, very hard, for a no-fly zone in the sovereign territory of one of russia's closest allies, and one of russia's few active military war zones. That no-fly zone would literally, instantly mean going to war with russia. If we do end up going to war with russia, then its simply NATO V. Russia, and it doesn't take a military strategist to easily predict how that would end. Heavy casualties on both sides initially, but as russia's supply dwindles and NATOs only builds up after the initial outbreak of war, then NATO would absolutely demolish Russia. The two simply are not comparable on military strength, except in one regard. The one thing russia can keep up with against NATO is nuclear armament. And once russia is pushed back, beaten, and bloodied in the war with NATO then they are left with only a single option left to try and remain a sovereign entity in the world; Nuclear war. We also... all know exactly how that ends, and its fucking bad for everyone.

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5 minutes ago, Atmos said:

Not wanting to derail this thread on a single comment by an uninformed person(s) any futher than I have already, I'll just finish it up by staying this.

Then why post this? You know that the thread I started is about Donald Trump,

 and his meeting with tech executives and its implications. Then why you and some other people started posting stuff about Russia, war, etc? 

 

I really hope that this thread doesn't get locked down by forum mods. 

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I see the soul that is inside

 

 

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Can we all agree that treating data equally and investing in our (U.S.) infrastructure is not a bad thing?
Can we agree on that? hahaha

I think so long as the old fogeys on capitol hill don't somehow convince Trump (through their own ignorance) that NN is like Obamacare, things won't change. If anything, Trump's willingness to meet with many leaders in technology can only be seen as a good sign for real progress and communication. Keep in mind that the meeting had to do with the economy and the American workforce, but that would include incentives to make sure these companies get what they need in order to do so. A major possibility would be funding requests and/or opportunity to address serious issues outside of the economy and inside the U.S.' standing as a major world power in regards to competing with other nations *COUGH* INFRASTRUCTURE *COUGH*

"If you ain't first, you're last"

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2 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Then why post this? You know that the thread I started is about Donald Trump,

 and his meeting with tech executives and its implications. Then why you and some other people started posting stuff about Russia, war, etc? 

 

I really hope that this thread doesn't get locked down by forum mods. 

Because of posts like this need to be corrected.

Quote

This better serve as a lesson. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people who voted for Trump did it as a joke. Now, the joke is on them.

 

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1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

He told them....Except Twitter who weren't invited

*laughs in spanish*

You mean ja ja ja

 

With spaces.

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You can check out the old one that gave joy to so many across the land here

 

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3 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

I'm not an economist nor someone fully cognizant of economic affairs but I don't really think that there's such a thing as a true "open market" ala Adam Smith.

Yeah there's not. Our country has a balance of things like capitalism, socialism, etc. Basing the US purely on one of those -isms wouldn't work, and our founding fathers knew that.

 

8 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Besides, is it really moral to control which service in my Internet connection to receive more or less bandwidth? Remember that majority of ISP's don't advertise that you'll get 10x more speed on HBO and 5x less speed on YouTube. They've sold an internet connection on the premise that regardless of the website someone visited, all data flowing through their pipes will be given the same priority and speed. 

I do agree that we need some better consumer protection in general, but I don't think we were ever promised complete net neutrality. You just get advertised up to a certain speed. That in of itself is pretty shitty on the consumer side because it puts the burden of the experience on the consumer rather than the company to actually deliver on an actual advertised speed.

 

I don't think government intervention is what we need though. In a way it would be the same as asking the government to force health insurance agencies to not deny anyone and be locked down to certain states; then force companies to offer full-time employees health insurance benefits but not part-time employees, which creates a problem where part-time employees aren't getting enough hours to make enough money to live on, and full-time jobs become more scarce. That would also create less competition with health insurance agencies and worse healthcare plans for people, among other major problems that total up to us being better off before that all went into effect. Oh wait..

 

See what I mean? Net neutrality can, in a way, be Obamacare for the internet just like Ted Cruz said as much as people may not like him for some reason. It just needs to be implemented properly with enough breathing room where ISPs can actually compete for your money, but you're also not being sold a shitty plan.

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10 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

See what I mean? Net neutrality can, in a way, be Obamacare for the internet just like Ted Cruz said as much as people may not like him for some reason. It just needs to be implemented properly with enough breathing room where ISPs can actually compete for your money, but you're also not being sold a shitty plan.

Google Fiber can be seen as an example of the good that a lesser-controlled market can have, the problem is that Google was one of the few actually shaking things up and they even decided to pause that venture indefinitely.

 

Although that forced competition, we need even more competition. In the U.S. you're getting your sweet boi pucci pounded by either Time Warner Cable, Comcast, or AT&T, most of the time as ISPs. We need more competition in more areas beyond heavily-populated cities but anti-competitive business practices/legislation should be discussed if we do want more competition.

"If you ain't first, you're last"

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I just re-watched the NYT video and I'm curious as to why Donald Jr, Eric, and Ivanka are there too? 

 

27 minutes ago, Kloaked said:

I don't think government intervention is what we need though.

But who's going to implement and enforce the rules of Net Neutrality then? 

 

Quote

“I’m here to help you folks do well,” Mr. Trump said.

He kept going in that vein. “There’s nobody like you in the world,” he enthused. “In the world! There’s nobody like the people in this room.” Anything that the government “can do to help this go along,” he made clear, “we’re going to be there for you.

So basically what he's saying is that "I'm only one call away". But hey, maybe his administration can help the plummeting internet speeds of America. When he told people that he's going to stop companies like Apple from outsourcing manufacturing jobs and force to have them made in the USA, I'm calling that one a dark horse.

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I see the soul that is inside

 

 

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1 hour ago, hey_yo_ said:

Not to mention, staunch republican Ted Cruz already called Net Neutrality as "Obamacare of the Internet", and just like Affordable Care Act, he wants Net Neutrality repealed. 

I  guess internet was based on the idea of equal access and rights ....guess I was wrong

 

1 hour ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

STOP REMINDING US WE'RE FUCKED WE GET IT

2016 was  bad??  just  remember Trump hasn't yet taken the oath....

 

1 hour ago, hey_yo_ said:

This better serve as a lesson. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people who voted for Trump did it as a joke. Now, the joke is on them.

The worst thing is non Americans would now suffer because of this "Joke"

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“I’m here to help you folks do well,” Mr. Trump said

 

I wasn't aware that the richest and some of the more powerful/influential people in the world needed his, or anyone's, "help".

 

Interesting.  We should start a charity drive for Jeff Bezos of Amazon; Elon Musk of Tesla; Timothy D. Cook of Apple; Sheryl Sandberg of Facebook; Larry Page and Eric Schmidt of Alphabet.  They need help.

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3 hours ago, MoonSpot said:

 

I wasn't aware that the richest and some of the more powerful/influential people in the world needed his, or anyone's, "help".

 

Interesting.  We should start a charity drive for Jeff Bezos of Amazon; Elon Musk of Tesla; Timothy D. Cook of Apple; Sheryl Sandberg of Facebook; Larry Page and Eric Schmidt of Alphabet.  They need help.

I think he meant "not oppose them in every way and ruin their businesses" like MSM and liberals claimed he would?

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58 minutes ago, Scitesh said:

The worst thing is non Americans would now suffer because of this "Joke"

Americans vote for their own interest foreigners do not dictate how we shall vote, nor should they.

(plus the claim is baseless)

 

Also before you say "but the Russian's influenced the election" let me preemptively counter that

abc.png

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/631048-psu-tier-list-updated/ Tier Breakdown (My understanding)--1 Godly, 2 Great, 3 Good, 4 Average, 5 Meh, 6 Bad, 7 Awful

 

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39 minutes ago, MoonSpot said:

 

I wasn't aware that the richest and some of the more powerful/influential people in the world needed his, or anyone's, "help".

 

Interesting.  We should start a charity drive for Jeff Bezos of Amazon; Elon Musk of Tesla; Timothy D. Cook of Apple; Sheryl Sandberg of Facebook; Larry Page and Eric Schmidt of Alphabet.  They need help.

I will try to explain what is meant by "Help them".

 

Trump administration is there to help them by reducing regulations that are inhibitors to operating a business or simply add a ton of overhead. For example, needing a huge team of lawyers just to ensure the company is not violating any one of the hundreds or thousands of regulations before proceeding with a project.

 

As a simple example, I work for a liquor store company at the corporate level in IT. I was talking to one of my coworkers and we were talking about the physical placement of stores. In Alberta where I live there is a regulation that a liquor store cannot be within 500 meters of any other liquor store (I think its 500m, the actual distance might be different). That regulation makes it difficult to be competitive in the market in certain scenarios. For example, if one company opens a liquor store in modest-sized shopping complex/area then no other competitors would be able to open a competing liquor store in that shopping area. That regulation to me is just plain stupid. But there is another regulation that you cannot open a liquor store within a certain distance of a school, which does make sense.

 

Its a fine balance to strike. You don't want too few regulations because then companies start doing some questionable things but you don't want so many regulations that it inhibits a company's ability to operate efficiently and competitively.

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4 hours ago, Albatross said:

I think he meant "not oppose them in every way and ruin their businesses" like MSM and liberals claimed he would?

Ehem, Bernie Sanders liberal here. Who was claiming that? We said he would let billionaires have a field day, and that is exactly what is happening. Question: what is your opinion on having his kids sit in on presidential meetings when he's supposedly stepping away from his businesses and having them take over? What do you think of making secret service use tax payer money to pay to stay in his hotel because he refuses to leave? What is your opinion on him constantly refusing to attend security briefings? What is your opinion of him not releasing his tax returns? 

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He gets A for effort, but we will have to wait for the execution.

 

Spoiler

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9 hours ago, Memories4K said:

Google Fiber can be seen as an example of the good that a lesser-controlled market can have, the problem is that Google was one of the few actually shaking things up and they even decided to pause that venture indefinitely.

 

Although that forced competition, we need even more competition. In the U.S. you're getting your sweet boi pucci pounded by either Time Warner Cable, Comcast, or AT&T, most of the time as ISPs. We need more competition in more areas beyond heavily-populated cities but anti-competitive business practices/legislation should be discussed if we do want more competition.

Yeah one problem we have is that the government keeps allowing these companies to swallow other companies up that are in the same business. That creates less competition.

8 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

I just re-watched the NYT video and I'm curious as to why Donald Jr, Eric, and Ivanka are there too? 

 

But who's going to implement and enforce the rules of Net Neutrality then? 

 

So basically what he's saying is that "I'm only one call away". But hey, maybe his administration can help the plummeting internet speeds of America. When he told people that he's going to stop companies like Apple from outsourcing manufacturing jobs and force to have them made in the USA, I'm calling that one a dark horse.

His kids are wanting to get involved in politics, namely Ivanka I think. Ivanka is way more liberal than Donald is.

The FCC are the ones who would write up rules and regulations into a bill to pass to through congress and the president.

 

Apple are already looking into getting their devices manufactured in the US, but dunno how long it'll take since it's not something that can just happen overnight.

2 hours ago, ivan134 said:

Ehem, Bernie Sanders liberal here. Who was claiming that? We said he would let billionaires have a field day, and that is exactly what is happening. Question: what is your opinion on having his kids sit in on presidential meetings when he's supposedly stepping away from his businesses and having them take over? What do you think of making secret service use tax payer money to pay to stay in his hotel because he refuses to leave? What is your opinion on him constantly refusing to attend security briefings? What is your opinion of him not releasing his tax returns? 

Letting billionaires have a field day is what the country needs. They hold a majority of the country's wealth, and them spending it would circulate the wealth.

 

What is your opinion on Trump not taking a salary and paying for his own expenses, with security being an exception? I guarantee you his vacations are going to come out of his pocket, rather than Obama taking his entire family to Hawaii which costs millions.

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In other news about Trump. 

 

The Cadillac designed by Trump

trump1-xxlarge_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqxw3cigJ

 

trumpo_trans++QDfO_Li8BnuRdRCVfSGXuejXTw

 

trump5_trans++LK2-u1zpAsT7m4SN7iwH3YdQj9

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/14/inside-donald-trumps-luxurious-1980s-cadillac

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HP Envy x360 BP series Intel 8th gen

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And in related Trump News, net neutrality will have a very short life span,  Tom Wheeler has announced he will be stepping down Jan 20 of 2017, right after Trump takes office.   

 

"...Trump is widely expected to replace Wheeler with a man named Jeffrey Eisenach.   He's a former commissioner-turned-analyst who has spoken out against net neutrality multiple times over the years.  ..."

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/fcc-chairman-tom-wheeler-resign,33203.html

Rock On!

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19 hours ago, Kloaked said:

"They want a free and open market within reason."

If this is actually true then they need to make it a true open market.  ISP's in the US are not an open market in most of the country.  Where you live decides who your ISP is.  Where I live I Time Warner (Soon to be merged completely with Charter) and that is my only option.  They control my entire area for internet.   Have one option isn't an open market.  It's an Oligopoly.   Further explained here. 

 

If they truly want an Open Market then ISP's need to be listed as Title 2.  Allowing other companies access to the lines and able to provide consumers options when selecting an ISP, similar to the way electricity lines work. In my area company A runs the lines but company B-Z can offer their service over those lines. However this is unlikely to happen due to ISP's being fat and greedy and so used to the status quo.  

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19 hours ago, ivan134 said:

Ehem, Bernie Sanders liberal here. Who was claiming that? We said he would let billionaires have a field day, and that is exactly what is happening. Question: what is your opinion on having his kids sit in on presidential meetings when he's supposedly stepping away from his businesses and having them take over? What do you think of making secret service use tax payer money to pay to stay in his hotel because he refuses to leave? What is your opinion on him constantly refusing to attend security briefings? What is your opinion of him not releasing his tax returns? 

Go to reddit's r/all or r/politics. They're still claiming it. Then go to Tumblr and Facebook/Twitter. Those liberals. I have no idea who you are and what you may or may not believe, but the majority of liberals believe he's going to "crush American business, big or small". Even this thread has a few examples of people who find this surprising or thought he would...

 

If his children can help him (they are only helping his transition team efforts, nothing more and he confirmed it), I don't see the problem really. I'll admit maybe you can argue that it is unorthodox or perhaps unprofessional, but it isn't like he's got Putin sitting next to him.

 

I'll probably think the same thing over the tax payer money thing (source?) that I do about Obama having eight zillion vacations that come to about 72 million. If he feels safer at his hotel (and who could blame him with how many people hate him?) then that's how it goes. Seems like a really shallow and useless thing to be complaining about, to be honest.

 

"constantly refusing"? Well not entirely true...he refused a lot of them because he doesn't believe he needs them. I don't really have an opinion on that because I don't know all the facts for why he doesn't.

 

And I don't really care about his tax returns. The same people who want him to reveal his tax returns on baseless accusations also falsely accused Mitt Romney so when we have Americans suffering, a crippling debt and a potential war to stave off? I'm thinking priorities.

|  The United Empire of Earth Wants You | The Stormborn (ongoing build; 90% done)  |  Skyrim Mods Recommendations  |  LTT Blue Forum Theme! | Learning Russian! Blog |
|"They got a war on drugs so the police can bother me.” ― Tupac Shakur  | "Half of writing history is hiding the truth" — Captain Malcolm Reynolds | "Museums are racist." — Michelle Obama | "Slap a word like "racist" or "nazi" on it and you'll have an army at your back." — MSM Logic | "A new command I give you: love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another" — Jesus Christ | "I love the Union and the Constitution, but I would rather leave the Union with the Constitution than remain in the Union without it." — Jefferson Davis |

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