dark clouds looming in the video cards supply chain - inventory levels are up, sales are down

[Prysin]

2 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

I mean Polaris 10 and 11, both of which have been successful in taking back market share from Nvidia, pretty significantly.

yes, and both of which have had little effect on taping out anything. ZEN has been rolling out in finished wafers since november i bet in order to build stock.... 3.5 months turn-around from start to finish means that they wouldnt see much if any of the issues of polaris before ZEN was already hitting production. i may be wrong, but the time window of 1.5 months from Polaris launch until ZEN and VEGA should be starting to go into production means that there is far too small a window for there to realistically have had any effect on the tooling and design of the chip/transistor-layout.

[XenosTech]

3 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

I mean Polaris 10 and 11, both of which have been successful in taking back market share from Nvidia, pretty significantly.

 Are you feeling well today patrick ?

 

 

Soon enough zMeul is gonna smack the almighty steam hardware survey in here somewhere and say it says otherwise like if that's accurate by any means to gpu share.

[dizmo]

I see it as people waiting to see what AMD is going to do early next year. Perhaps they produced too many cards seeing all of the back orders and the huge demand early on, only to take too long producing them, thus they now have a huge supply and people aren't as interested. I know if I was looking to build right now, I'd definitely wait to see what AMD is going to be doing with the RX 490 and beyond.

Yes, the high price might have played into it as well. Though the 1070 was an absolute beast, beating the 980Ti. If you think about it like that, no wonder they priced the 1080 so high. They likely thought it would be more of a niche market.

 

17 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

People not buying the initial batch because scalpers, there were no real good Black Friday / Cyber Monday sales around it (which really should've been expected anyway), and people are waiting to see what AMD comes up with.

 

... So is this partly AMD's fault too? :B

I thought there were some pretty good Black Friday sales. Saving $200 on a 1080 isn't too shabby at all.

16 hours ago, goodtofufriday said:

Youre right about nvidias prices. The only card with significant improvement over last gen was the 1080. That coupled with bs founders pricing screwed up everything. 

 

R/amd is more at fault lol. They are telling everyone to wait for vega. 

Are you kidding? The 1070 absolutely blows the 970 out of the water.

It's on par with the same increases as the 1080 over 980.

 

14 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

Nvidia had a conference in 2015 for Pascal. LTT should have the video in the archives stating what Nvidia had said. There are plenty of publications that said the same.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/FdH48d/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-8gb-founders-edition-video-card-9001g4132500001?history_days=365

Notice the price and the launch date. $700.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/bpBrxr/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1070-8gb-video-card-9001g4112520001?history_days=365

Notice the price and the launch date. $450.

Both where they should have been.

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/v34NnQ/asus-geforce-gtx-1080-8gb-rog-strix-video-card-rog-strix-gtx1080-a8g-gaming?history_days=365

The Asus Strix was one of the biggest offenders of the price hikes hitting nearly 800 on several occasions until it stabilized where it should have.

 

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/10series/geforce-gtx-1080

Even the Nvidia website lists the price as $700.

 

14 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

Anandtech Reported that the GTX 1080 was to have a non-FE MSRP of $600 while the GTX 1070 was to have a non-FE MSRP of $380. http://www.anandtech.com/show/10325/the-nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-and-1070-founders-edition-review

 

Lo-and-behold there is a GTX 1070 that's near the MSRP: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/nQPzK8/gigabyte-geforce-gtx-1070-8gb-mini-itx-oc-video-card-gv-n1070ixoc-8gd

 

Also a GTX 1080 at MSRP: http://pcpartpicker.com/product/ymrcCJ/asus-geforce-gtx-1080-8gb-video-card-turbo-gtx1080-8g

You two seem to be missing something. MSRP. Suggested retail price. Not set in stone, not "this is exactly what it's going to cost". Of course retailers can change the pricing. Board partners are more than welcome to set their own pricing as they see fit, since they have put a lot of work in and in a lot of cases completely redesigned the card.

 

14 hours ago, huilun02 said:

That you can blame retailers for being absolute shills, knowing people will buy dispite higher price. General consumers have been pretty much brainwashed into accepting only Nvidia cards. 

Brainwashed? I haven't seen anything like that. People buy AMD cards. They're just not suggested as often, because frankly it's been a while since AMD has had a really compelling card at the same pricepoint as Nvidia.

 

8 hours ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

Price. It's all about price.

That the greed and distribution problems are being punished feels good man.

 

A used 290x for $120 is still the best money you can spend gpu wise.

A used card will always be a better price. You can't really compare 2 generation old used pricing to the price of a new card.

8 hours ago, edsdrafts said:

Where did you see such price for 290x? Are we talking about AMD Radeon R9 290X because I find it hard to believe anyone would sell 290x for $120 that currently retails around $300-400.

It's common. You can't really take the retail price into consideration. The card isn't sold anymore, and if you are finding it on store shelves, it's very old stock. These cards were used for mining, so there's loads of them out there. I got my 7970 for the equivalent of $60USD.

[goodtofufriday]

Just now, dizmo said:

I thought there were some pretty good Black Friday sales. Saving $200 on a 1080 isn't too shabby at all.

Are you kidding? The 1070 absolutely blows the 970 out of the water.

It's on par with the same increases as the 1080 over 980.

Sure. But I said over the last generation. 1070 isnt so much better that a 980/980ti or fury/x that those people needed to upgrade. And because the 1070 was priced above what the 970 was, it put a lot of people in that price range out of the 1070 market. 

[ARikozuM]

5 minutes ago, dizmo said:

You two seem to be missing something. MSRP. Suggested retail price. Not set in stone, not "this is exactly what it's going to cost". Of course retailers can change the pricing. Board partners are more than welcome to set their own pricing as they see fit, since they have put a lot of work in and in a lot of cases completely redesigned the card.

Agreed with nearly everything, but my point was the blame shouldn't be Nvidia's fault since their cards (the Founders Edition) was at their MSRP at all times.

[dizmo]

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Agreed with nearly everything, but my point was the blame shouldn't be Nvidia's fault since their cards (the Founders Edition) was at their MSRP at all times.

Nvidia can't price lower. I mean they can, but if they change the price over the course of the card being on market, board partners don't take lightly to it. It's seen as too competitive. Nvidia needs the board partners to be happy to make money, they're not really in it to sell Nvidia branded cards.

[That Norwegian Guy]

12 minutes ago, dizmo said:

A used card will always be a better price.

No not really. For example, people were trying to sell Nvidia 2xx series for $150-$200 when the GTX 470 and 480 were brand spanking new, and the 2xx series was trash.

 

Much like the Radeon 5xxx and 6xxx series used sellers overvaluing them after 7xxx series came out.

 

A used GTX 760, 770, 780 and to a degree 780 Ti today are all overvalued by sellers. So only specific GPUs are worth buying used, right now that would be the 290, 290x and 295x2, while anything from the green team has the Nvidia tax on it because idiots think they're better

[dizmo]

4 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

Sure. But I said over the last generation. 1070 isnt so much better that a 980/980ti or fury/x that those people needed to upgrade. And because the 1070 was priced above what the 970 was, it put a lot of people in that price range out of the 1070 market. 

The amount of R&D that went into Pascal had to be recouped somehow. That cost is always passed on to the consumer.

I think the price increase is fair, and sales show that. Most people need a card like the 1050 or 1060. Once you step into the 1070 and 1080, you're into a more niche market, where people are clearly enthusiasts and will spend more to get that performance increase.

 

All of my friends that game at lower resolutions are perfectly happy with a card like the 1060. The ones that want the 1070 are willing to pay the extra, because they're really into gaming. It's their hobby. Granted, I don't think another price hike like that one would be competitive at all, and I think realistically they've reached the top end of what they can charge for a video card.

That just means they've found almost the sweet spot for pricing. Maximum revenue while maintaining sales. Price it slightly lower next gen, and they're set.

 

I think there was more of a misconception by the board partners that sales would hold strong based on initial sell outs. Clearly that's not the case and everyone that wanted one, got it when it came out regardless of what it initially cost.

That, and of course AMD. Releasing new stuff this time of year likely affected sales in a massive way. I mean, how often do we recommend that people wait and see what's in store if they're building?

[dizmo]

10 minutes ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

No not really. For example, people were trying to sell Nvidia 2xx series for $150-$200 when the GTX 470 and 480 were brand spanking new, and the 2xx series was trash.

 

Much like the Radeon 5xxx and 6xxx series used sellers overvaluing them after 7xxx series came out.

 

A used GTX 760, 770, 780 and to a degree 780 Ti today are all overvalued by sellers. So only specific GPUs are worth buying used, right now that would be the 290, 290x and 295x2, while anything from the green team has the Nvidia tax on it because idiots think they're better

If you look, you'll find a better price. Used pricing also greatly depends on market conditions. I've sold items for more than or damn near close to what I paid for them after having used them for over a year, simply because there wasn't any competition.

[Prysin]

30 minutes ago, dizmo said:

The amount of R&D that went into Pascal had to be recouped somehow. That cost is always passed on to the consumer.

I think the price increase is fair, and sales show that. Most people need a card like the 1050 or 1060. Once you step into the 1070 and 1080, you're into a more niche market, where people are clearly enthusiasts and will spend more to get that performance increase.

 

All of my friends that game at lower resolutions are perfectly happy with a card like the 1060. The ones that want the 1070 are willing to pay the extra, because they're really into gaming. It's their hobby. Granted, I don't think another price hike like that one would be competitive at all, and I think realistically they've reached the top end of what they can charge for a video card.

That just means they've found almost the sweet spot for pricing. Maximum revenue while maintaining sales. Price it slightly lower next gen, and they're set.

 

I think there was more of a misconception by the board partners that sales would hold strong based on initial sell outs. Clearly that's not the case and everyone that wanted one, got it when it came out regardless of what it initially cost.

That, and of course AMD. Releasing new stuff this time of year likely affected sales in a massive way. I mean, how often do we recommend that people wait and see what's in store if they're building?

If your thesis is right, Pascal must be the most expensive Ctrl+C -> Ctrl + V ever

[dizmo]

52 minutes ago, Prysin said:

If your thesis is right, Pascal must be the most expensive Ctrl+C -> Ctrl + V ever

 

Quote

The GTX 1080 is the "largest GPU endeavor, largest chip endeavor, largest processor endeavor, in the history of humanity," said NVIDIA CEO Jen-Hsun Huang. He added that the R&D budget for the new card was "several billion dollars" over the span of more than two years. "I'm pretty sure you can go to Mars [for that]," he said.

https://www.engadget.com/2016/05/06/nvidias-new-gtx-1080-gpu-is-even-faster-than-the-titan-x/

[SteveGrabowski0]

You mean people don't want to pay $700 for the class of card that was $250 only six years ago? Shocking.

[SteveGrabowski0]

19 hours ago, Kloaked said:

Yeah a lot of the hype was ruined due to lack of stock for the first few months or so, and the outright (somewhat of a) lie Nvidia made about suggested retail price for the 1070 in particular.

I was hyped to get a 1070 at launch for $380, but once I saw how all the cards were selling for near the $450 FE price all of a sudden my 970 didn't look so bad. 

[Prysin]

7 minutes ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

I was hyped to get a 1070 at launch for $380, but once I saw how all the cards were selling for near the $450 FE price all of a sudden my 970 didn't look so bad. 

same here.... was going to swap out my 295x2... ReLive driver have added Wattman, now i can get another 50Mhz outta my GPU... running 1130MHz on both GPUs and 1400 memory.

 

No need to upgrade yet.

[Miguel Batista]

1 hour ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

I was hyped to get a 1070 at launch for $380, but once I saw how all the cards were selling for near the $450 FE price all of a sudden my 970 didn't look so bad. 

That is exactly why cards are not selling well. I thought about getting a 1080 but I couldn't justify forking out 800 euros for a marginal improvement over my 980 ti. Reselling my 980 ti would've net me about 350 euros at the time. That would mean 550 euros for a marginal improvement. I have a friend that has a 970 and plays athe 1080p. He feels like he needs nothing else. It certainly doesn't justify the price. 

 

Value. That is why NVidia is selling less than they intended. They are lacking value.

[Misanthrope]

5 hours ago, goodtofufriday said:

Sure. But I said over the last generation. 1070 isnt so much better that a 980/980ti or fury/x that those people needed to upgrade. And because the 1070 was priced above what the 970 was, it put a lot of people in that price range out of the 1070 market. 

That's an extremely disingenuous post.

 

The 980ti is significantly ahead of the 980 so you can leave that and the Fury out of the comparison altogether.

 

That means that the 1070 is on par with the 980ti and the Fury X. The 1070 was actually using a lot less power and even though the pricing was a mistake (I still maintain this) it was a damn substantial upgrade from the 970 effectively 2 tiers or 40% of performance increase. The usual performance gains between generations are more along the lines of 20% between the same SKUs across generations. It was a very compeling upgrade in fact, just priced beyond what most people where willing to pay because of the Founders Edition MSRP which effectively became the entry level for both FE and decent AIB models. Only really fucking shitty blower AIB cards (seriously look at this fucking turd) where cheaper near launch and none reached the promised Nidia MSRP at all.

 

The 1070 and 1080 were seriously compelling upgrades in terms of features and gains in performance. Nvidia were just too fucking greedy pricing beyond what the market can bear as I said before.

[Energycore]

19 hours ago, Space Reptile said:

~snip~

my 290 is a good example , same perf as a 470 , but alot cheaper 

I'd say the 290 has better performance than a 470 even if by a bit.

 

I personally haven't found good prices on cards, old or new.

[Sauron]

Maybe next time they won't price them like gold plated chihuahuas

[alexyy]

I was going to get a pascal 1080 but they screwed us over on the prices in the UK so I didn't bother, I'll wait for whatever comes next.

[Scitesh]

20 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

Here's an idea. Actually have the cards at the recommended retail price, then maybe people will fucking buy them. Instead of, you know, having it around $100+ higher.

I  am tired of reading this across various forums ...

Look in india  vendors(and retailers) stuck to the prices they announced  which was roughly

(announced price  in USD)*65+30% 

PS: 65 is lower than actual conversion rate between USD and.INR ...

Also  our govt doesn't like our"hobby"  do we have to pay the  full import taxes(28%) ....

Tbh , I  called up my friends in Asus and they mentioned they were selling the 1070s  for a loss also after the 1st  week of US  release the cards can be easily found and they were available in abundance (the place from where I bought 1x1080 and 2x1070s  had almost all AiB  models on display..)

 

The reason would be the demonstration drive going on india ....unlike what you guys believe pc gaming is becoming a big thing over here also india is now one of the biggest dGpu  markets in Asia ..

Also  retailers in india  didn't resort to price gouging upon release of these  cards...on the topic of retail..india is still predominantly a cash economy(yup I paid for 1070s in cash)

Also the.rules during the demonstration process don't make a condusive environment  for high value purchases ( daily withdrawal allowance:INR 4000)

Price of.a 1070 INR 28000+ 

Similarly markets in Bangladesh and pak also down

[Energycore]

10 minutes ago, alexyy said:

I was going to get a pascal 1080 but they screwed us over on the prices in the UK so I didn't bother, I'll wait for whatever comes next.

Just gotta hope AMD releases their "7970" at $500 like they did in 2012

[alexyy]

Just now, Energycore said:

Just gotta hope AMD releases their "7970" at $500 like they did in 2012

I'm looking forward to see what they're gonna do, I'd happily jump ship to AMD.

[Scitesh]

21 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

That's not Nvidia's fault, but the company's themselves.

Nope.

Launch prices (India and yes cards were available at these parts)

1080FE :56000 ($800+)

1080 strix :57500

1080 gaming Z : 55000

1070 Amp : 28000

1070 strix :31000

 

(Ps consider the 28%  import tax on posts in India)

[Energycore]

1 minute ago, alexyy said:

I'm looking forward to see what they're gonna do, I'd happily jump ship to AMD.

I would already have if prices weren't so stupid high.

Seriously, the cheapest 4GB 480 is $255

 

Maybe I'll get an XFX RX 470 (not even the good PCB) for $210, ew

 

And Nvidia is the same (cheapest 3GB 1060 is $240, cheapest 6GB is $310)

[Energycore]

5 minutes ago, Scitesh said:

Nope.

Launch prices (India and yes cards were available at these parts)

1080FE :56000 ($800+)

1080 strix :57500

1080 gaming Z : 55000

1070 Amp : 28000

1070 strix :31000

 

(Ps consider the 28%  import tax on posts in India)

Woah half the price on 1070s compared to 1080s! And the AMP, which is a good one iirc