H170 and DDR3? Confused...

[nkucz]

Hey guys,

 

Was looking at cheap Micro ATX motherboards for an i3 6100 and stumbled across this:

http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-H17MDR3&c=CJ

 

Why does it say it supports DDR3/DDRL? Does this mean it doesn't support DDR4? And it will take DDR3 ram from my previous computer....

 

 

[Guest]

No, it problay supports DDR3L or DDR4

[HKZeroFive]

Not all LGA1511 motherboards support DDR4. There are a few that can take DDR3/L memory.

[Luke Jackson]

Product specs:

 

• Specifications

   

  • Mfr Part Number: GA-H170M-D3H DDR3
  • CPU: LGA1151
    • Supports Intel Core i7/ i5/ i3 /Pentium /Celeron Processors
  • Chipset: Intel H170 Express
  • Memory: 4x DDR3/DDR3L 1866(OC)/1600/1333 DIMM Slots, Dual Channel, ECC, Non-ECC, Unbuffered, Max Capacity of 32GB
  • Slots: 2x PCI-Express 3.0 x16 Slots (one runs at x4), 2x PCI Slots
  • Multi-Graphics: Supports 2-Way AMD CrossFireX Technology
  • Storage:
    • SATA: 6x SATA3 Ports, Support RAID 0, 1, 5, 10, 2x SATA Express Ports
    • M.2: 1x M.2 Port (type 2242/2260/2280), Support SATA & PCI-Express SSD
  • Audio: Realtek ALC892 7.1-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC, Supports S/PDIF Output
  • LAN: Intel Gigabit Ethernet Controller
  • Ports: 8x USB 3.0/2.0 Ports (4 rear, 4 via headers), 6x USB 2.0/1.1 Ports (2 rear, 4 via headers), 1x PS/2 Keyboad/Mouse Port, 1x VGA Port, 1x HDMI Port, 1x DVI-D Port, 1x RJ45 LAN Port, Audio I/O Jacks
  • Power Connector: 1x 24pin ATX Main Power Connector, 1x 8pin ATX 12V Power Connector
  • Form Factor: MicroATX, 24.4 x 22.5 cm

[Luke Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Luke Jackson said:

Product specs:

 

• Specifications

   

  • Mfr Part Number: GA-H170M-D3H DDR3
  • CPU: LGA1151
    • Supports Intel Core i7/ i5/ i3 /Pentium /Celeron Processors
  • Chipset: Intel H170 Express
  • Memory: 4x DDR3/DDR3L 1866(OC)/1600/1333 DIMM Slots, Dual Channel, ECC, Non-ECC, Unbuffered, Max Capacity of 32GB
  • Slots: 2x PCI-Express 3.0 x16 Slots (one runs at x4), 2x PCI Slots
  • Multi-Graphics: Supports 2-Way AMD CrossFireX Technology
  • Storage:
    • SATA: 6x SATA3 Ports, Support RAID 0, 1, 5, 10, 2x SATA Express Ports
    • M.2: 1x M.2 Port (type 2242/2260/2280), Support SATA & PCI-Express SSD
  • Audio: Realtek ALC892 7.1-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC, Supports S/PDIF Output
  • LAN: Intel Gigabit Ethernet Controller
  • Ports: 8x USB 3.0/2.0 Ports (4 rear, 4 via headers), 6x USB 2.0/1.1 Ports (2 rear, 4 via headers), 1x PS/2 Keyboad/Mouse Port, 1x VGA Port, 1x HDMI Port, 1x DVI-D Port, 1x RJ45 LAN Port, Audio I/O Jacks
  • Power Connector: 1x 24pin ATX Main Power Connector, 1x 8pin ATX 12V Power Connector
  • Form Factor: MicroATX, 24.4 x 22.5 cm

So it supports DDR3 and DDR3L. They are the only compatible memory. And i assume as long as the ram is either DDR3 or DDRL, and the spare sticks are compatible with the new sticks I assume you may be getting, you should be fine.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Luke Jackson said:

So it supports DDR3 and DDR3L.

Theoreticaly, every skylake mobo supports DDR3, but there is a chance of frying the cpu if you do so.

[Luke Jackson]

Just now, FTL said:

Theoreticaly, every skylake mobo supports DDR3, but there is a chance of frying the cpu if you do so.

Indeed, my mistake for not including that

[dizmo]

53 minutes ago, FTL said:

Theoreticaly, every skylake mobo supports DDR3, but there is a chance of frying the cpu if you do so.

 

52 minutes ago, Luke Jackson said:

Indeed, my mistake for not including that

 

Except, you know, DDR4 modules don't fit in DDR3 slots. So no, it's not a matter of them frying the CPU.

[manikyath]

1 hour ago, FTL said:

No, it problay supports DDR3L or DDR4

that's intel's opinion, and then motherboard manufacturers did voodoo for it to support DDR3

[nkucz]

6 hours ago, FTL said:

Theoreticaly, every skylake mobo supports DDR3, but there is a chance of frying the cpu if you do so.

So your saying if I put DDR3 in there is a chance of frying my i3? What if I use DDR3L instead?

5 hours ago, dizmo said:

 

 

Except, you know, DDR4 modules don't fit in DDR3 slots. So no, it's not a matter of them frying the CPU.

So if I use DDR3 it won't fry my CPU?

5 hours ago, manikyath said:

that's intel's opinion, and then motherboard manufacturers did voodoo for it to support DDR3

gah... so confused. 

[sniip]

14 minutes ago, nkucz said:

So your saying if I put DDR3 in there is a chance of frying my i3? What if I use DDR3L instead?

So if I use DDR3 it won't fry my CPU?

gah... so confused. 

According to Intel i3-6100 can use these types of memory 

Memory Types

DDR4-1866/2133, DDR3L-1333/1600 @ 1.35V

 

also here's the link for all info: http://ark.intel.com/products/90729/Intel-Core-i3-6100-Processor-3M-Cache-3_70-GHz

 

Also IMO it's better to use DDR4 memory, because they have higher frequencies and also DDR4 will overtake DDR3 in the market soon enough, so why wait...

[nkucz]

1 minute ago, sniip said:

According to Intel i3-6100 can use these types of memory 

Memory Types

DDR4-1866/2133, DDR3L-1333/1600 @ 1.35V

 

also here's the link for all info: http://ark.intel.com/products/90729/Intel-Core-i3-6100-Processor-3M-Cache-3_70-GHz

 

Also IMO it's better to use DDR4 memory, because they have higher frequencies and also DDR4 will overtake DDR3 in the market soon enough, so why wait...

The motherboard doesn't support DDR4. Also I already have DDR3. 

[sniip]

1 minute ago, nkucz said:

The motherboard doesn't support DDR4. Also I already have DDR3. 

Well, then probably this Mobo won't fit you, since the processor is not supporting DDR3 only DDR3L. If you would use normal DDR3 your processor might not like it.

[typographie]

51 minutes ago, nkucz said:

So your saying if I put DDR3 in there is a chance of frying my i3? What if I use DDR3L instead?

So if I use DDR3 it won't fry my CPU?

gah... so confused. 

This topic comes up a lot, and there still seems to be a lot of confusion about it. My understanding is there are certain voltages associated with DDR3 memory that may harm a Skylake IMC, and there are certain voltages that probably won't. The gist of it seems to be that if you just make sure VCCIO and VCCSA are dialed in properly in your BIOS, DDR3 memory should not harm your CPU.

 

@MageTank explains this a lot better than I can:

Plus, even the overly cautious recommendation is to follow the manufacturer's specifications literally, and in this case Gigabyte says "DDR3/DDR3L." If Gigabyte thought they would have to replace your CPU, they wouldn't say that—they may even print a warning about it. Gigabyte's memory support list for the H170-D3H DDR3 lists more 1.5 V products than 1.35 V ones.

 

If you decide to buy new RAM, I'd recommend trying to find a DDR4-compatible motherboard and going that route instead of buying DDR3L. The price difference between DDR3 and DDR4 has gotten to be minuscule, and you're better off in the long run using DDR4.

[MageTank]

2 hours ago, typographie said:

This topic comes up a lot, and there still seems to be a lot of confusion about it. My understanding is there are certain voltages associated with DDR3 memory that may harm a Skylake IMC, and there are certain voltages that probably won't. The gist of it seems to be that if you just make sure VCCIO and VCCSA are dialed in properly in your BIOS, DDR3 memory should not harm your CPU.

 

@MageTank explains this a lot better than I can:

Plus, even the overly cautious recommendation is to follow the manufacturer's specifications literally, and in this case Gigabyte says "DDR3/DDR3L." If Gigabyte thought they would have to replace your CPU, they wouldn't say that—they may even print a warning about it. Gigabyte's memory support list for the H170-D3H DDR3 lists more 1.5 V products than 1.35 V ones.

 

If you decide to buy new RAM, I'd recommend trying to find a DDR4-compatible motherboard and going that route instead of buying DDR3L. The price difference between DDR3 and DDR4 has gotten to be minuscule, and you're better off in the long run using DDR4.

To add to this: I built a PC for a coworker using the Asus Z170-P D3, and threw in some 2133 CL9 Ripjaws Sniper ram (1.65v). This was back in February, and his PC has been running nonstop and not a single issue has come of it. I manually dialed in the VCCIO on that board (1.14 in his case) and VCCSA was set to 1.15. Aside from finicky training of the RTL/IO-L offsets (blame cheap boards), it was basically plug and play. Even the auto VCCIO/VCCSA values on that board, were under harmful thresholds (VCCIO was auto 1.2v, and VCCSA was auto 1.25v), i simply reduced them because I knew the IMC didn't need them that high to drive this ram. The CPU in that system was an i5 6500 that I bought from @Lays here on this forum, and it's IMC was perfectly fine, even after running through his gauntlet. 

 

I've done a lot more research since that post, and if you take Intel's strict tolerances, the typical VDDQ for DDR3 is 1.35, with a max variance of +5% allowed, meaning 1.41v max. Typical DDR4 VDDQ is 1.2v, with again, +5% max variance, meaning 1.26v. Problem? Every single overclocked DDR4 kit runs at 1.35v, meaning the vast majority already break Intel's standards. This is looking beyond the fact that Intel themselves confuse the definitions of VDDQ and VDIMM in their own datasheet: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/core/desktop-6th-gen-core-family-datasheet-vol-1.html

 

Jedec themselves define VDDQ as the "output stage drain power voltage", which by name, implies it's not the voltage entering the IMC. https://www.jedec.org/standards-documents/dictionary/terms/output-stage-drain-power-voltage-vddq

 

Scrolling down to 7.2.1.3 in the Intel datasheet, they list the following information: 

Quote

Look specifically at notes 1 and 2. As coincidental as it sounds, VDDQ is not the I/O supply voltage from the processor to the ram. I know the voltages they list directly coincide with their VDIMM voltages, but I feel some miscommunication on behalf of whoever wrote this is the cause, as it simply does not make sense. Factor in the previous information that every single person using DDR4 has likely broken these standards, and are doing perfectly fine, it's easy to see that these standards mean very little in the grand scheme of things.

 

In summary, VDIMM simply does not come into contact with the CPU. No amount of VDIMM can kill a CPU, but it can kill the ram itself, and bad boards. There is such thing as too much VDIMM, even from a stability standpoint, so try to use as little VDIMM as possible, while obtaining the highest clock speeds with that kit as possible. The same can be said with VCCIO and VCCSA. It's all about finding the sweet spot. 

 

BONUS: Fun fact: Haswell's VDDQ was 1.5v, with a max tolerance of +5%, meaning 1.575v max. How many of you exceeded that, while not frying your CPU's IMC?

 

Quote

 

[typographie]

See, I told ya he could explain it better than I can.