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Amazon.de cancels nvme ssd Black Friday deal after 14 days and calls it as price mistake

LastZombie
3 hours ago, LastZombie said:

yesterday i wrote amazon saying ı should have a right to purchase the item etc here is their answer. 

 

I think the Amazon representative was pretty clear and concise in her explanation.  I don't see any beating around the bush.  They decided not to sell it to you at the erroneous price that you found it at and cancelled your order.  Apparently in some countries this is possibly illegal, but Amazon doesn't seem swayed by this.  At least with regards to your country.

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3 hours ago, Dackzy said:

Same in Denmark, unless the store can prove that you have bought the thing in "evil faith" aka planning to put it up for sale and earn money.

Most webshops protect themselves through the agreement you make when ordering. So the email you receive when clicking buy is called "Bestillingsbekræftigelse" and is not a proof of purchase and the shop is not legally bound to sell you the item at the price you saw, especially when not dealing in good faith (I'm sure this has been tried in courts by now). The second email you receive is the "ordrebekræftigelse" and is legally binding. The price listed is the price you pay. This obviously can't change from the price you agreed on. Either the order is canceled or it goes through.

I've for example ordered a R390X for, I believe 600~ DKK when the actual price was 4000 DKK. Needless to say, the order was canceled. I wasn't dealing in good faith (the price was obviously wrong but I wouldn't risk missing out in case I hit the jackpot) and they had not send me an email confirming the purchase; only the automatic "bestillingsbekræftigelse" which is not (as mentioned) legally binding when the shop has terms of sale that state the auto-generated email is not binding. Normally it would be if the shop has not added that bit of legal protection in their terms but most do by now do to prevent abuse and it's understandable. 

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3 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

What if it's only just human? We as a society can overlook negligence but shouldn't hurt innocents while doing it for the same reason. If you're doing business with the general public you need to be prepared to not make those mistakes, human or not, and assume responsibility if you do. It should be just the cost of doing business, not a burden on the unsuspecting public.

Well, I work as a retailer and I have to disagree with you.

 

A wrong price tag is not going to hurt anyone until the government forces the retailer to sell it for that price. Then it starts to hurt the stores. 

 

I don't understand why people always want to abuse these pricing mistakes and make profits off of them. This is not a society.

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, steffeeh said:

Depends on the country. Here in Sweden you're legally forced to carry out the order at the wrong pricing. This even applies to sending out a business offer with the wrong pricing unless you contact the customer and correct the pricing within like 15 minutes.

Ironically you are required to do so as well for physical stores in the US, but digital services are exempt from that law.

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22 hours ago, That Norwegian Guy said:

Same in Norway. I believe it was Komplett who were forced to sell laptops for 1600 NOK when they meant to price them at 16000. Over 80 orders for them were made, that's got to hurt.

I agree in US they have to honor their price, can't cancel just like that.. 

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1 hour ago, Sampsy said:

 

I really couldn't disagree more with this. It's got about as much merit as "finders keepers" and I think a lot of people here are showing an extremely immature attitude towards the whole topic. You're not arguing for consumer rights, you're arguing for the right to exploit the mistakes of others. If this were reversed and a business was demanding that they get to keep the money they got from overcharging your poor grandma, you would be in uproar. It's extremely hypocritical to expect businesses to treat consumers fairly, forgiving their mistakes, whilst demanding consumers be allowed to take advantage of whatever slip-up they can find.

 

Not only is it morally wrong (not every business is an evil mega-corporation) but this kind of thing could genuinely bankrupt businesses if enough people exploit it before the mistake is realised. Heck, if this were the law you'd expect every company would constantly scan their competitors sites for any pricing mistakes, so they could order x billion of the product to immediately bankrupt them. That wouldn't make for a healthy market.

 

Of course consumers should be refunded and purposefully mis-pricing products to attract customers should not be allowed. But if you really think that somebody who orders 200 PlayStation 4s from some retailer that accidentally listed them at £2.99 rather than £299 is doing anything more honorable than trying to profit from an error then you're delusional.

 

 

I think you hit the nail on the head.  If you knew that the price was too good to be true going into it and you suspected that there was some type of error/mistake, you should have no expectation or entitlement to receiving the item at the erroneous price.  Unfortunately, it sounds like some localities condone and even legally empower people to exploit these errors/mistakes.

 

 

1 hour ago, brown1 said:

I agree in US they have to honor their price, can't cancel just like that.. 

 

Depends on so many variables to include location and purchase type that you can't just use a blanket statement such as "in the US." 

 

The following video/article is from NY, so not only were you wrong about blanketing the "U.S." in your statement, but your state actually does not legally require merchants to honor errors and mistakes.

 

http://www.moneytalksnews.com/pop-quiz-does-store-have-honor-misprinted-price/

 

 

 

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Some people are missing the point of this happening on the day of biggest sales of the year. It is not just a "mistake" on a normal day. I do think there should be some protection for the seller and for the buyer.  As i said before if the pricing mistake was noticed in hours or even 1 or 2 days I would still say it was normal. This is 14 days later and the buyer (in this case me) missed a bunch of deals on ssd's and other stuff since i thought i had to pay for those ssds. Yeah it was not charged on my cc but i wanted to leave enough credit for those purchases i (thought i) made. I don't have unlimited cc :D  This may be a bit biased but at least they could have offered some discount on other ssd's as an apology. This way seller was protected and the buyer got no protection and basically nothing^^

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2 minutes ago, LastZombie said:

Some people are missing the point of this happening on the day of biggest sales of the year. It is not just a "mistake" on a normal day. I do think there should be some protection for the seller and for the buyer.  As i said before if the pricing mistake was noticed in hours or even 1 or 2 days I would still say it was normal. This is 14 days later and the buyer (in this case me) missed a bunch of deals on ssd's and other stuff since i thought i had to pay for those ssds. Yeah it was not charged on my cc but i wanted to leave enough credit for those purchases i (thought i) made. I don't have unlimited cc :D  This may be a bit biased but at least they could have offered some discount on other ssd's as an apology. This way seller was protected and the buyer got no protection and basically nothing^^

 

Did you by chance call them a day or two after to confirm that you were going to recieve them at that price? 

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1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

Did you by chance call them a day or two after to confirm that you were going to recieve them at that price? 

I don't think i have never called amazon or any other online store after i bought something to confirm it. Have you? I called small stores beforehand to ask if their stock is correct or not. When amazon tells me wait for the shipment i wait for the shipment :D

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5 minutes ago, LastZombie said:

I don't think i have never called amazon or any other online store after i bought something to confirm it. Have you? I called small stores beforehand to ask if their stock is correct or not. When amazon tells me wait for the shipment i wait for the shipment :D

 

Yeah,I absolutely have on items that haven't shipped within a couple of days.  I'm a "I pay for Prime and want my shit now" type of guy.  >:(  When I do have to make those calls, I want to know the whole story to include all charges.  The fact that you don't do that further increases the likelihood of stuff like this happening.  Maybe something to do in the future if this situation ever arises again.  

 

How long would you have waited before calling had you not received an email telling you that you weren't getting them at that price?

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1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

Yeah,I absolutely have on items that haven't shipped within a couple of days.  When I do have to make those calls, I want to know the whole story to include all charges.  The fact that you don't do that further increases the likelihood of stuff like this happening.  Maybe something to do in the future if this situation ever arises again.  

 

How long would you have waited before calling had you not received an email telling you that you weren't getting them at that price?

Since the item is out of stock on the website or it says preorder, i would probably have waited until it got restocked or any change on my order status. It is a nice idea for the future. This is the first time i am having such a problem and i (now realize stupidly) trust big companies such as amazon on such big sale days. Btw i didn't wrote this as a what can i do thing. I thought it is something people should now that amazon.de did this. Didn't have any problem with amazon.com though.

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1 minute ago, LastZombie said:

Since the item is out of stock on the website or it says preorder, i would probably have waited until it got restocked or any change on my order status. It is a nice idea for the future. This is the first time i am having such a problem and i (now realize stupidly) trust big companies such as amazon on such big sale days. Btw i didn't wrote this as a what can i do thing. I thought it is something people should now that amazon.de did this. Didn't have any problem with amazon.com though.

 

Sounds good.  I wish you the best in your future purchases.

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35 minutes ago, LastZombie said:

Some people are missing the point of this happening on the day of biggest sales of the year. It is not just a "mistake" on a normal day. I do think there should be some protection for the seller and for the buyer.  As i said before if the pricing mistake was noticed in hours or even 1 or 2 days I would still say it was normal. This is 14 days later and the buyer (in this case me) missed a bunch of deals on ssd's and other stuff since i thought i had to pay for those ssds. Yeah it was not charged on my cc but i wanted to leave enough credit for those purchases i (thought i) made. I don't have unlimited cc :D  This may be a bit biased but at least they could have offered some discount on other ssd's as an apology. This way seller was protected and the buyer got no protection and basically nothing^^

As I mentioned earlier, a reasonable deterrent to order cancelations initiated by a business would be to add x percentage to the money returned to the customer. 

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2 hours ago, Sampsy said:

 

I really couldn't disagree more with this. It's got about as much merit as "finders keepers" and I think a lot of people here are showing an extremely immature attitude towards the whole topic. You're not arguing for consumer rights, you're arguing for the right to exploit the mistakes of others. If this were reversed and a business was demanding that they get to keep the money they got from overcharging your poor grandma, you would be in uproar. It's extremely hypocritical to expect businesses to treat consumers fairly, forgiving their mistakes, whilst demanding consumers be allowed to take advantage of whatever slip-up they can find.

 

Not only is it morally wrong (not every business is an evil mega-corporation) but this kind of thing could genuinely bankrupt businesses if enough people exploit it before the mistake is realised. Heck, if this were the law you'd expect every company would constantly scan their competitors sites for any pricing mistakes, so they could order x billion of the product to immediately bankrupt them. That wouldn't make for a healthy market.

 

Of course consumers should be refunded and purposefully mis-pricing products to attract customers should not be allowed. But if you really think that somebody who orders 200 PlayStation 4s from some retailer that accidentally listed them at £2.99 rather than £299 is doing anything more honorable than trying to profit from an error then you're delusional.

Not everybody has to comply to a "business first" mentality, different societies go different routes on this. US can do US don't get me wrong, but US companies need to comply with the law of whatever country they want to do business with so tough shit: kinda the reason why mom and pop operations shouldn't even be doing international business which is the point here: This is fucking Amazon, the size of their operations is so many orders of magnitude outside of your example it's barely relevant.

 

But as I said I'm ok with you doing you and the US doing US.

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1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Not everybody has to comply to a "business first" mentality, different societies go different routes on this. US can do US don't get me wrong, but US companies need to comply with the law of whatever country they want to do business with so tough shit: kinda the reason why mom and pop operations shouldn't even be doing international business which is the point here: This is fucking Amazon, the magnitude of their operations is so many orders of magnitude outside of your example it's barely relevant.

 

But as I said I'm ok with you doing you and the US doing US.

 

The future's changing.  Looks like current politics will reduce the amount of business that the US is doing with your country.

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2 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

The future's changing.  Looks like current politics will reduce the amount of business that the US is doing with your country.

And at the same time Koreans are very interested in opening operations here lately. We also wouldn't rule out more business with the Chinese, etc. It might be a though transition but it's ultimately worst for the US: you really can't unring the bell of Globalization no matter how Nationalistic nuts you get in the white house. But we'll see.

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Just now, Misanthrope said:

And at the same time Koreans are very interested in opening operations here too. It might be a though transition but it's ultimately worst for the US: you really can't unring the bell of Globalization no matter how Nationalistic nuts you get in the white house. But we'll see.

 

Yeah, it's going to be interesting watching this stuff unfold.

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29 minutes ago, LastZombie said:

Some people are missing the point of this happening on the day of biggest sales of the year. It is not just a "mistake" on a normal day. I do think there should be some protection for the seller and for the buyer.  As i said before if the pricing mistake was noticed in hours or even 1 or 2 days I would still say it was normal. This is 14 days later and the buyer (in this case me) missed a bunch of deals on ssd's and other stuff since i thought i had to pay for those ssds. Yeah it was not charged on my cc but i wanted to leave enough credit for those purchases i (thought i) made. I don't have unlimited cc :D  This may be a bit biased but at least they could have offered some discount on other ssd's as an apology. This way seller was protected and the buyer got no protection and basically nothing^^

I agree with this totally. Any other day and with much faster reaction it would be totally ok to cancel all of the orders because mistakes happen. But when it is the one day that people are waiting for crazy sales everywhere and reaction to mispricing happens 2 weeks later, that is some huge BS. Any other day (outside of marketed sale days) and reaction time of day or two and it's all fine, but as we now talk about Amazon and black friday, we can presume they had a lot of people working that day just to keep the servers running and probably a lot of customer service also, so having that kind of mispricing and not reacting to it immediatly is just really bad. It's same kind of bad as some new store would be opening and having a huge marketing campaing before promising a lot of sales and when it would open one of the biggest sales would be "mispriced" and people would have lined for hours to get that item on that price only to find out that there's a clerk telling them it was mispricing at the register.

 

And for those wondering the Finnish customer protection system is quite equal to everybody, it's just a lot more on the customers side especialy when it comes to marketing and pricing because on those parts customer is a lot debendant on the vendor and what information the vendor gives about the product. Also they want the vendors to double check their marketing and really take responsibility over it because there has been quite huge mishabs in the past (like when Gigantti (Elkjøp) and Lidl opened in Finland they went really bad really fast with their marketing, like Gigantti didn't keep their price promises for a wide variety of reasons (they promised that if the customer finds the product anywhere cheaper, be it on sale or not, they will sell with that cheaper price, but they didn't publicly tell the rules and like they don't include webstores and it has to be excatly the same product, when it came public the KKV was all over it because they were reallu fucking up with people, like having excatly the same product but one number or letter changed in the model number and they just kept coming up with execuses to sneak off from the price promise) and both of them were guilt to market sales where there was really only few marketed products in each store and basicly they just lured a lots of  people in without really having anything on sale). There's as many cases the vendor has won as there's cases where the customer has won even if the system is more on the customers side because the power balance (usually the vendor has marketing and legal teams or they just already have connections to those and they usually have better legal insurances and more money to spin the legal circus). Also the Finnish system relays a lot on mutual compromises and deal making and the legal actions are the far last thing to do (usually when the vendor doesn't want to comply on agreements or the case is someway so unique or just first and there's a big chance there will be a lot more so getting court order on that is important for getting some real knowledge where the law stands).

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6 hours ago, Senzelian said:

Well, I work as a retailer and I have to disagree with you.

 

A wrong price tag is not going to hurt anyone until the government forces the retailer to sell it for that price. Then it starts to hurt the stores. 

 

I don't understand why people always want to abuse these pricing mistakes and make profits off of them. This is not a society.

The stores are already hit from the moment that a competitor offers fake prices to their potential costumers, though.

Just like consumers, firms should also act "in good faith" for this to be considered a mistake, and just assuming so is as good as assuming all consumers act in good faith and no one tries to abuse anything.

Remember, watching sellers' practices is not only about protecting consumers, but also about protecting competing sellers from unfair competition.

 

I'm not saying this was the case here (how would I, or anyone, know?), but it is conceivable for a large retailer to out-compete everyone with extreme low prices during black Friday, cybermonday, etc, and afterwards cancel those orders alleging "a mistake", but offer the lowest normal prices (for example, something is usually 150 in store A, but it's 100 during black friday. Store B sets it at 60, gets all the sales, and when deals are over store A goes back to 150, but stores B cancels previous orders and set their price at 130. They will still be the cheapest, but they will sell at 130 instead of competing against 100).

 

As @Zodiark1593 said, some form of deterrence is  needed, otherwise assuming just assuming good faith on behalf of the retailer is not protecting retailers either.

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17 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

The stores are already hit from the moment that a competitor offers fake prices to their potential costumers, though.

Just like consumers, firms should also act "in good faith" for this to be considered a mistake, and just assuming so is as good as assuming all consumers act in good faith and no one tries to abuse anything.

Remember, watching sellers' practices is not only about protecting consumers, but also about protecting competing sellers from unfair competition.

 

I'm not saying this was the case here (how would I, or anyone, know?), but it is conceivable for a large retailer to out-compete everyone with extreme low prices during black Friday, cybermonday, etc, and afterwards cancel those orders alleging "a mistake", but offer the lowest normal prices (for example, something is usually 150 in store A, but it's 100 during black friday. Store B sets it at 60, gets all the sales, and when deals are over store A goes back to 150, but stores B cancels previous orders and set their price at 130. They will still be the cheapest, but they will sell at 130 instead of competing against 100).

 

As @Zodiark1593 said, some form of deterrence is  needed, otherwise assuming just assuming good faith on behalf of the retailer is not protecting retailers either.

Now I understand what you mean.

You have a good point there.

 

In Germany I never experienced such behavior by a retailer. 

 

 

 

 

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Imo 70 euro down from 230 isn't an unbelievable deal.  Good, sure, maybe even great, but not unbelievable on black Friday.

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3 minutes ago, Yoinkerman said:

Imo 70 euro down from 230 isn't an unbelievable deal.  Good, sure, maybe even great, but not unbelievable on black Friday.

 

I think you misread that.  It dropped 167.41.  It was originally 235, but was listed as 67.59.

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1 hour ago, Yoinkerman said:

Imo 70 euro down from 230 isn't an unbelievable deal.  Good, sure, maybe even great, but not unbelievable on black Friday.

Keep in mind that Black Friday in Europe is a poor imitation of the American one. The percentages pale in comparison. They are also operating under fairly different circumstances. 

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6 hours ago, done12many2 said:

 

I think you misread that.  It dropped 167.41.  It was originally 235, but was listed as 67.59.

Yeah.  I got it.  My post was probably harder to read because of the lack of punctuation.

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On 12/9/2016 at 2:59 AM, steffeeh said:

Depends on the country. Here in Sweden you're legally forced to carry out the order at the wrong pricing. This even applies to sending out a business offer with the wrong pricing unless you contact the customer and correct the pricing within like 15 minutes.

We  have a similar law in India which is even more stricter  it says if an employee/owner/manager  mis quotes  price  and the customer had agreed to pay the price the company has to sell the product at the mentioned price  our face LEGAL  repercussions 

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