Apple touchbar, keyboard and temperature problems

[RedRound2]

On 12/7/2016 at 11:27 AM, Dackzy said:

Small bugs are you fucking kiding me? How is 103c a "small" problem? 

2

Give me few other source reliable sources and then we can talk. Get that through your thick head 

Quote

How is the keyboard stop working a "small" problem? They have put keyboards on laptops for a while now. I can understand that they would have some small problems with the touchbar, but not it popping up on the screen. If it just went black, then sure

 

1

Whose keyboard stopped working? So now you're inventing problems and/or reporting isolated cases. How low can you go. You might end up breaking your spine if you stoop too low

[Dackzy]

On 12/7/2016 at 11:36 AM, RedRound2 said:

SNIP

Way more than 5% in GTA. 5% is also a LOT

You need to fucking leave with your Apple can do no wrong.

Yes there have been quad core laptops before, never claimed anything that was even close to that statement. There are also quad core laptops that can cool the quad core. FFS is this really too hard for your little brain? Apple is to blaim for the temps, if other manufactors can cool a quad core, then can apple, if they wanted to atleast.

Every single macbook pro has had high temps, you can go look that up yourself. Apple puts silence over temps. IF you stress any macbook that hasn't been moded in any way or put a custom fan curve on then you will see that they all have reallly high temps.

 

Yes thermal throttling is sadly very common today and it is SUPER bad, it shortens the life spand of a laptop by a lot, it is not only the CPU and GPU that gets hot, it is all the parts around them. I dislike every single laptop that thermal throtles

On 12/7/2016 at 11:36 AM, RedRound2 said:

You are so retarted that you cannot see that it is apples fault and not intels. You also have no fucking idea of how tech works and what quality is 

You just said that it is apple fault which I always said it is.

 

Oh the guy that fixes laptops and build desktop has no idea about how tech works? LOL

LOL I don't know what quality is? You didn't know what a motherboard had to do with quality. Each little part in a PC has something to do with the overall quality. What is a laptop that has the best shell, but has a really poorly built motherboard? NOTHING, because that motherboard is going to fail fast. The quality of the glue and screws are what deciedes on how well a laptop stays together.

 

Why the fuck do you think there are motherboards of different quality for desktops? Some have poor power delivery, while others have great power delivery. Why do you think people advice on buying high quality PSUs for desktops? Because the low quality ones are more likely to die and maybe even kill you whole system.

[LeapFrogMasterRace]

I am just going to leave this here

 

[PlayStation 2]

On 12/6/2016 at 5:52 AM, Castdeath97 said:

While I know that this generation is kinda of a let down, do we need to post literally every issue for that line? It's getting boring already...

It's called satisfying one's ego.

TF2 traders know it. LTT knows it damn well.

[rattacko123]

7 hours ago, r3d3mpt10n said:

Change the thermalpaste, I used coolermaster master gel. Worked like a charm, Temps dropped significantly. I did this on my mid-2015 dual graphics macbook pro 15 and it dropped my temps around 15 degrees

Once I get my new laptop I'll give this a try

[samcool55]

Seriously, what is NOT broken with this version?

 

It overheats so the cooling is crap.

The I/O is debatable but for most people crap.

The touchbar is broken.

Keyboard is broken.

Display can be messed up.

Battery life is crap.

16GB ram disaster.

 

If you want to prove me wrong, go ahead, i'm wondering what is actually good about this...

I haven't heard a single good thing about to so shoot. I'm waiting.

[SSL]

More evidence of Apple Core Rot.

 

We're now seeing a snowball effect where not only is the rate of bugs increasing, but it is affecting increasingly basic functionality in increasingly critical ways. This is clear evidence of a leadership breakdown at Apple; no direction or clear mission and an obvious lack of quality control, especially with regards to software and firmware.

[Belgarathian]

8 hours ago, Keudn said:

Am I the only one who thinks its hilarious that Apple tried claiming the reason why they don't allow more RAM is because of battery life, on a laptop that has a touchbar that almost certainly uses more power than another stick of RAM??

But you can't have both 

[Keudn]

20 minutes ago, Belgarathian said:

But you can't have both 

Oh of course not! That would be absurd!      /s

[cesrai]

Honestly I haven't had this fun reading a thread long time ago. The evidence are there but some people just don't want to acknowledge there existence and dismiss them. Additionally, some people like to just disagree and boycott.

---

The new MacBook just can't take a break can it ? let's hope the new MacBook pro isn't this bad. 

[suicidalfranco]

Best. Thread. Ever!

To think we've even reach the point to blame Intel for the high CPU temps is just amazing!

It's not like Intel has ULV CPUs for thin laptops that prioritizes looks over anything else, they should probably start to make those, seems there's a market for it 

[Notional]

Is there really any reason to buy Apple anymore? The Ipod is dead, the computers are insanely expensive with nothing to show for it.

[LAwLz]

Heat has always been an issue for Macbooks. Hell, the Macbook Pro manual even states that you should not use the laptop on your lap because it can cause burn damage.

 

Spoiler

Do not place your MacBook Pro on your lap or other body surface for extended periods of time. Prolonged body contact can cause discomfort and potentially a burn.

 

 

Edit: Holy shit I just looked though the thread and the mental gymnastics going on are top notch. If mental gymnastics ever become an official part of the Olympic games then I know who to root for.

[Dabombinable]

Still sitting here and laughing, my 2010 laptop with a Phenom II N970 (2.2GHz 29W true uad core) and 30W Mobility Radeon HD5770 (I'm calling the HD5650 that because I was running it at 650MHz-need I say more http://www.notebookcheck.net/ATI-Mobility-Radeon-HD-5770.24583.0.html), and anemic cooling still handled both at full load without any thermal throttling, or them going over 85^oC. And also note that I could have replaced the motherboard and gone to a more power hungry i7 820M, also with the MR HD5770/5650. And it would have been a bit hotter, but it still wouldn't thermal throttle. And this is all in a HP laptop that cost $999 AUD originally.

[KWelz]

Unlike anyone else arguing about this I actually own the product in Question.  I have a 15 inch touchbar model with 512Gb SSD.   

 

So lets see if we can address a few of these issues.   

 

Battery life:   So far this seems about on par with previous gen models.  Not as good as my 2015 Macbook but about what I would expect from a more performance oriented machine.  So far I am hitting 7-8 hours under what I would consider normal use.   Usually closer to the 7 than 8.  Less than advertised.  But honestly I expected that.   And far more than the 3 hours some people are claiming.  This has dropped to as low as 5.6-6 under some heavier usage to be fair.  I get the feeling this has somethign to do with GPU switching.   

 

Temps:   So far I have not seen a single issue with temps.   Idle when hooked up to an external display is usually high 30s.  38-40 honestly.  And normal loads take that to just over 40.   So far I have only rendered 2 projects on it and in neither case did I see temps anywhere near the claimed levels.   I am using SMC fan control to monitor things but have not set up any custom fan profiles.  

 

Touchbar:  No issues so far.  This isn't to say I won't see any.  But so far so good.  I am also not sure if this will be useful or a Gimmick.  I like it but doubt it will revolutionize the industry.  

 

Keyboard:  This takes a bit of time to get used too.  It is very different from a normal laptop keyboard.   And honestly I am still undecided on if I like it better than the old style or not.   But it is hardly a failure.   

 

Speakers when installing Windows:  I posted about this when it first came up.  Installed Windows 10 to test.   No problems at all with the speakers.  This more than any other issue sounds like an isolated incident that has been blown out of proportion. 

 

IO:  I can see why SOME people have a problem with this.   For me the only time it is a problem is when I dock the computer at home.  The easy solution was an Adapter with USB and HDMI on it.   One plug and done.  Eventually I will look for a better solution but honestly it is a non issue at this time.  But that is my use case.   Others may have additional needs.  I run all my files on a home NAS or through Google Drive. so I don't need to plug in external hard drives often.   I also picked up a 5 dollar USB type C to type A adapter and one of these.  https://www.amazon.com/Satechi-Type-C-MacBook-12-Inch-Charging/dp/B019PHF9W2/ref=sr_1_1?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1481270283&sr=1-1&keywords=satechi+type-c+usb+3.0+3+in+1+combo+hub

 

Solves any problems that may crop up right there in one easy solution.  And I managed to pick it up on sale for 29.99. 

 

But once again.  Other people may have more need than I do for additional ports.  If that is the case then buy a 2015 model.  

 

Memory:  I hardly consider this a disaster.   I also feel they should have had a 32Gb option.  In the end however they chose to go with a Memory controller that would only allow 2 DIMMs. Their choice.   Not how I would have gone but once again.  Hardly a disaster.  

 

 

In my opinion they made some good and some bad decisions.   The battery should have been slightly larger.  While i have had no issues personally there is no reason they could not have added a bit of weight and had a larger battery which would increase life and allow for a few of the things they cut. 

 

I also don't like that everything is soldered on.  Once again I see the reasoning.  I just would prefer at least an upgradable SSD.  

 

 

In the end this reminds me a lot of the original iMac.   Everyone screamed that it would fail because it didn't have a 3.5 inch drive and only had USB.  How would people use their old stuff?  What were people going to do?  Their old keyboards?  Old date?  All that stuff had to be replaced!    Well in the end it didn't fail and it pushed the industry.  

I am not saying this Macbook Pro will be the same.  In fact I doubt it will be.  But I would hardly call it a failure at this point either.  

[mrchow19910319]

On 07/12/2016 at 4:00 PM, RedRound2 said:

People ignore these issues and there will mostly be 1-2 threads about it, but for Apple oh man, shit goes crazy.

This is the side effect of being the elephant in the room. Doing everything right, no one gives a shit. You "supposed" to do it right. Did something wrong, everybody judges you. 

[RedRound2]

3 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

This is the side effect of being the elephant in the room. 

Nah, special cases apply to Apple. People are making faults with Apple even offering free replacement for the iPhone 6S battery. Just take a look at the thread, it's ridiculous

[mrchow19910319]

21 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Nah, special cases apply to Apple. People are making faults with Apple even offering free replacement for the iPhone 6S battery. Just take a look at the thread, it's ridiculous

Yeah... People who actually has no plan to purchase the new macbooks going crazy on how shitty the product is,

And trust me... people who plan on buying it, got it on their hands already.... Went to r/mac and some other forum, apple still has a special place in many people's heart. Most of the software devs using mac, so as many other people jjust prefer os x to windows. 

[Dabombinable]

33 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

I'm honestly not going to even bother replying to your claims. You had cut short my reply by atleast 4 and you still give lame reasons and I believe I crossed the line when I went a little harsh in between. See it's one of those things when I realise that all I'm doing here is wasting my time trying to lift a mug with my mind

Obviously those parts didn't need to be answered.

[Dackzy]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

I'm honestly not going to even bother replying to your claims. You had cut short my reply by atleast 4 and you still give lame reasons and I believe I crossed the line when I went a little harsh in between. See it's one of those things when I realise that all I'm doing here is wasting my time trying to lift a mug with my mind

You claim that a lot of big problems aren't apples fault like high temps. That IS APPLES FAULT. The touchbar has problems, there are plenty of youtube videos that shows that now. 

You are trying to pin all the problems on other companies, while it is 100% Apples fault. They made the keyboard software, they made the touchbar software, they made the cooling system for the CPU. You CANNOT pin those things on Intel. It is out right idiotic to go out and claim that it is Intels fault that the new macbook pro runs hot, when it is Apple that has designed the cooling and then you claim that Intel don't make their CPUs effecient enough. A 6th gen i5 ULV is as good as my 2nd gen m CPU in my laptop, that is a 15w CPU that is as good as a 35w CPU. 

This is all on Apple. It is outright idiotic to say that it is intels fault that they run hot. Intel has lower powered CPUs they could have used, like a ULV or core m. Furthermore you can get laptops with HQ CPUs that can cool it.

[RedRound2]

3 hours ago, Dackzy said:

You claim that a lot of big problems aren't apples fault like high temps. That IS APPLES FAULT. The touchbar has problems, there are plenty of youtube videos that shows that now. 

You are trying to pin all the problems on other companies, while it is 100% Apples fault. They made the keyboard software, they made the touchbar software, they made the cooling system for the CPU. You CANNOT pin those things on Intel. It is out right idiotic to go out and claim that it is Intels fault that the new macbook pro runs hot, when it is Apple that has designed the cooling and then you claim that Intel don't make their CPUs effecient enough. A 6th gen i5 ULV is as good as my 2nd gen m CPU in my laptop, that is a 15w CPU that is as good as a 35w CPU. 

This is all on Apple. It is outright idiotic to say that it is intels fault that they run hot. Intel has lower powered CPUs they could have used, like a ULV or core m. Furthermore you can get laptops with HQ CPUs that can cool it.

 

See how you just reduced the entire argument just to one point that I gave myself least credit for. Check it out how I stressed I myself didn't give much value to it in my third-last comment I believe

 

High temps aren't observed by other Youtubers under normal usage (which includes video editing) and all ultrabooks with HQ processors have the same temperature problems and it's far from exclusive to being with the only in the MBP. What I did say was Intel should do a better job making powerful yet efficient processor rather than simply overclocking and improving the IHS a bit like what they've been doing for like the last few generations.

There's so little you can do to improve cooling other than to put more heatsinks. Pretty sure Apple's doing the best with the space available and it's not like Apple is the only one with this issue. And let me stress again no one else observed the absurdly high temperature so my argument is mainly for high temperatures like 80-90 degree C

 

Now you could say Apple could make a thicker laptop. Except people don't want that. You're more than welcome to buy any other laptop with a thicker body. Others, myself included loving the thin profile of the MBPs. And many people including me fell in love with MacBook 2015 just because how beautiful it looked despite being severely underpowered by the Core M processor

 

Second, never said the touch bar was someone else's fault. All I said was it'll be eventually fixed with software updates. This is how fanboyism just clouds your mind and you start making up stuff I said

 

Moral: Every laptop, especially a new one will have problems at first even Apple. Except for Apple, they get a lot of extra attention because as I said before some get multiple orgasms when they hear Apple and some problem in the same sentence. Microsoft's has been having problems with the Surface ever since the start and yet nobody gives it enough value to create and entire fucking thread for every little problem out there

 

I hope I made myself clear, if you still have doubts reply with a proper and valid question rather than going all nuts 

[MoonlightSylv]

Apple's MacBook Pro cooling is just shit in general, my MBP late 2013 (eventually, after 5-10 minutes of stress testing) gets to 98c, I had to disable turbo boost to get acceptable temps.

[Dackzy]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

SNIP

MacBooks has always had high temps...

Also anything above 85c and it will thermal throttle.

Yes people put form over function, which is stupid in a lot of ways, because then you end up with products that looks great on a spec list, but IRL you don't get the performance you pay for and the people who really neeeds all the power (like me I do 3D work, often with CAD programs) they can get out of their laptop, would not be able to get all the performance out of the CPU, because it would hit thermal limits, before it hit power limits. OFC this is not going to hit a consumer who only web browse and watch videos on his or hers laptop, but the life spand of a laptop goes down when it runs hot, because it is not only the GPU and CPU that the heat affects it is all the parts around them, a laptop is not like a desktop, were there is more air and everything is further apart, so heat is a much bigger problem. That is also why a general life spand of a okay cooled laptop is shorter than a desktop.

 

Also you would have to find videoes where they have done the same test as he did, before you can come to the conslusion that these temps are BS.

 

You still cannot say this is Intels fault. Sadly we cannot compare Haswell to skylake in laptops, because the cooling has changed in laptops, but you can on desktop and that shows you that Skylake is a cooler chip. Which this will show you https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Haswell-vs-Skylake-S-i7-4790K-vs-i7-6700K-641/#ThermalOutput

So they have done something. Which my 35w CPU in my laptop can also tell you, since it is pretty much tied with a 15w ULV, when you only look at CPU performance and no iGPU.

 

Apple knew damn well what they were getting into when picking this chip, yes they would most likely have needed to make the new macbook as thick as the old one, maybe a little bit thicker, but then you would have gotten the full performance from the CPU. With cooling we can also talk the way they have chosen to suck air in, which I think we can all agree on isn't the most ideal thing ever.

 

I can see how you thought I said that you blamed others for the touchbar and keyboard, but I really didn't, I am sorry if you read it like that.

 

If you have seen me post about laptops before, then you would know that I go after any laptop with big problems. Like the Blade has, like the XPS15 to some degree still has (sometimes you get a warped heat sink, same with AW laptops). I could give less fucks about who made the laptop. Yes I also hate on Lenovo laptops which include the ThinkPads. They changed a lot of things after second gen and they are starting to come back with some of the things (like left and right click buttons). I have made a huge rant a long time ago how it sucks that you no longer can get a quadro in a T series laptop.

 

 

These news are very very important, until Apple fixes the issues with the keyboard and touchbar, then I cannot recommend the new models to anyone. I have recommended macbooks plenty of times, so no I do not hate them. I know what they are good for, and I recommend them for those use cases. The temps are also still a huge problem, but I know that a lot of people who buys macbooks generally just use them for notes and just generally easy things. For people who really need to use all the power of the laptop, I would not recommend getting this macbook, unless they only video edit and need something on the go for video editing, but then the battery life comes into play, which I also hope is just a software bug.

 

You see, I really hoped that they would come out with a really good laptop, but this has so far only been "WTF is happening here?" and not in a good way. Heck I kinda wanted to buy a laptop from them, if they came out with a really good laptop. Just because that would help me with keeping up with the Apple side of the PC marked and I would ofc use it for school. This is coming from a guy that hates their mousepad and keyboard. I want left and right click buttons and I want more travel to my keyboard.

[Dabombinable]

5 hours ago, Dackzy said:

-snip-

Haswell runs hotter due to the FIVR-which helped make motherboards cheaper to manufacture+design.

[Dackzy]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Haswell runs hotter due to the FIVR-which helped make motherboards cheaper to manufacture+design.

well it was just to show him that Intel has been doing something to "help out" with the cooling. Intel kinda went OH FUCK OH FUCK OH FUCK with the 4770k (which is worse than the 4790k in temps), people were complaning like hell with the 4770k, so they had to change things.

Skylake also went for temps over max performance in laptops.

 

I don't think he can understand that this is all on Apple...