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Coollaboratory Liquid Ultra removal problem..

Well, I used CLU on one of my copper heatsink, but I didn't notice any significant performance increase (I didn't delid), and I became paranoid of all the issues people were talking about CLU, like wearing out, and leaking onto the mother board, so I decided to remove it and use some ordinary thermal paste instead.

However, that stuff just doesn't come off!

 

That liquid metal stains copper, and no matter what I throw at it, alcohol, WD-40, or TIM cleaner bought from the store, it just stays there untouched. I did some research and see that people are literally sanding the heatsink in order to remove it entirely... I would rather not to do so because I think that would cause more problems than it solves.

 

So here's my question, would that liquid metal stain affect cooling performance? The surface is still perfectly even (at least for my hand), just not like copper anymore, like silver-grey color. Should I lap it? Please share your experience here... Thanks.

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If the heatsink or heatspreader looks somewhat like this, it should come off if you rub it with +10% hydrogen chloride.
Some sort of chemical reaction happens if you mix liquid metal with bare copper.

a99a1c4356.jpg

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2 minutes ago, maybethisnamewillwork said:

+10% hydrogen chloride.

Gotta love some Hydrochloric acid :P 

Looking at my signature are we now? Well too bad there's nothing here...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What? As I said, there seriously is nothing here :) 

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1 minute ago, maybethisnamewillwork said:

If the heatsink or heatspreader looks somewhat like this, it should come off if you rub it with +10% hydrogen chloride.
Some sort of chemical reaction happens if you mix liquid metal with bare copper.

a99a1c4356.jpg

Yeah I think it's actually bonding with copper, forms some kind of alloy. Kind of like mercury forms amalgam with other metal.

Sadly I don't have acid around... and I really don't feel comfortable doing this to electric components..

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6 minutes ago, FreshGuy6204 said:

Yeah I think it's actually bonding with copper, forms some kind of alloy. Kind of like mercury forms amalgam with other metal.

Sadly I don't have acid around... and I really don't feel comfortable doing this to electric components..

wet sanding than, only the IHS for sure 400-800 granulation should work:D (is that better?) use only a few drops of water, with more or less no extra preasure. (I prefer sanding in even 8 just with one finger) after that cleaning it as good as you can with isopropyl alcohol, than let it fully dry and done.

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7 minutes ago, FreshGuy6204 said:

Sadly I don't have acid around... and I really don't feel comfortable doing this to electric components.

Could also try with some hard-surface kitchen cleaner like Mr Muscle.

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11 minutes ago, maybethisnamewillwork said:

Could also try with some hard-surface kitchen cleaner like Mr Muscle.

What will happen if I just leave it? It's metal anyway so it won't insulate heat, right?

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15 minutes ago, maybethisnamewillwork said:

Could also try with some hard-surface kitchen cleaner like Mr Muscle.

I think thats unlikly but maybe it work,  it even could contain some hydrochloric acid :D (I duno)

Or maybe it contain some aminosulfonic acid.

BTW Coke could maybe work too (not that fast but maybe if you wait a bit and with a bit of rubbing)

 

That is the problem with liquid metal, it likes copper to much (oh and don't try aluminum) and sure it's conductive.

I had to learn it the hard way (I didn't thought it would be aluminum at the base)

h7AJfBQ.jpg?1

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5 minutes ago, FreshGuy6204 said:

What will happen if I just leave it? It's metal anyway so it won't insulate heat, right?

Don't think there will be any issue if the bonding surface is just smooth enough, it's metal compound anyways so it will have good heat transfer.

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54 minutes ago, maybethisnamewillwork said:

Some sort of chemical reaction happens if you mix liquid metal with bare copper

that's not bare Copper

the reaction between Gallium and Copper results in CuGa2 that is a intermetallic compound akin to solder - it melts at 254oС

 

---

 

Al heatsink + Ga based TIM is highly not recommended since Al dissolves in Ga - like sugar in water

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9 minutes ago, zMeul said:

that's not bare Copper

the reaction between Gallium and Copper results in CuGa2 that is a intermetallic compound akin to solder - it melts at 254oС

Yeah heatspreaders have nickel plating, but that one was lapped to bare copper. Unexpected reaction happened anyways :)

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10 hours ago, FreshGuy6204 said:

What will happen if I just leave it? It's metal anyway so it won't insulate heat, right?

as far as I understand, its really just filling in tiny gaps and basically improving the shape of your IHS.  I've ran into this alot with CLU since I delid and now run without the IHS entirely.  It's coated on my IHS bottom and the bottom of my CPU block.  Just get rid of what you can and don't worry about the rest.  It won't decrease performance in any way

 

(its been discussed several times HERE if you want to dig for it)

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  • 1 year later...

Old thread—I get it.  But relevant info here nonetheless...

 

The thermal conductivity of Liquid Ultra is far less than the nickel/copper substrate of the IHS and your heatsink, and while I don't know exactly what the thermal conductivity of nickel-gallium and copper-gallium alloy is—and thus, can't be certain whether or not any build-up will act as a thermal conduction inhibitor—a good rule of thumb is to eliminate as much thermal interference as possible and/or practical.  Heat will only transfer as much as the weakest link in the conduction chain will allow it to.

 

I re-did my de-lid fairly recently.  The bottom line is, If there's any Liquid Ultra build-up on the surface, it absolutely should be removed from the heatsink and IHS, especially if you're replacing it with another material that conducts heat better than Liquid Ultra, like Conductonaut.  You can tell it's build-up by letting light reflect off the IHS/heatsink surface from different angles.  The build-up will be splotchy and a darker shade of gray. 

 

Polishing compound works quite well for removing the build-up.  Hydrochloric acid isn't going to remove it because the build-up isn't actually a build-up per se; it's a nickel-gallium or copper-gallium alloy; the chemical composition of the bare copper and/or nickel plating has changed at a molecular level.

 

When the build-up is removed completely, you'll end up with a one homogeneous shade of gray when light reflects off the surface at different angles.  If you're removing it from bare copper, don't try to return the surface to bare copper, because like I said, some of the copper is now a copper-gallium alloy.  It's only a couple of microns thick at the most, so it shouldn't inhibit heat transfer a whole lot, especially if you're about to use another compound that also has gallium in it.  All you're shooting for is a smooth surface that's free of splotchy build-up.  It's better to have a highly-flat surface with a little gallium alloy than an uneven surface of bare copper.


On a side note, Conductonaut is legit.  Liquid Ultra kept my temps from going over 65° C; after redoing with Conductonaut, stress-testing can't push them over 58° C.  That's an i7-6700K overclocked to 4.8GHz...

 

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