More Games WORSE on PlayStation 4 Pro

[AshleyAshes]

4 hours ago, Miguel Batista said:

The Witcher 3 was released in 2015 concurrently.

You got me there.  I totally screwed up the dates and knowing the game was newer I should have caught that.

 

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I got the info it outsold consoles from an interview with one of the creators.

It's super convenient that you fail to link this interview.  Please link it, I have no interest in what you're 'sure you remember'.

 

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I looked up the special edition (that was free for all who had Skyrim and dlc) and that one has over 5.5 million copies. With the 2.92 million physical copies the game sold for PC close to launch (first month or so) we reach over 8 million copies for PC.

I get the mistake you made here and I admit that it'd be easy to make.  You think that the PC physical copies are separate from the Steam sales but this is incorrect.  Skyrim's physical copies were Steamworks titles.  Every physical copy of Skyrim is activated by a Steam account and being counted by SteamSpy.  So, no, that's 2.92 million copies that you mistakenly counted up to twice.

 

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Still higher than any console and a conservative estimate.

But you haven't even cited any numbers for console sales, so how can your argument even state that the PC numbers that you incorrectly cited were higher than the console numbers that you didn't cite at all?

 

It's cool, I'll cite some numbers, with links!

 

http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/

 

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23,270,000

So 23 million units sold across all platforms.  Even if we take the number SteamSpy gives for ALL 'owners', including the untold number who tried it for 5mins on the free weekends, that's only 11.2 million, that's not even halfway to 23.3 million and we know that 11.2 million is a grossly exaggerated number, even SteamSpy gives a warning on that number because they know it's unreliable.  So we are well short of 50%+1.  All we have are your blind 'assurances' that it sold more, contrary to any available numbers.

 

And, I really want to make this clear; If a world wide released multiplatform title outsold consoles with PC ports, that would be news and you would have no difficulty finding the 30 different articles written about that event.  You would not have to scower numbers and try to guess or fudge your way to make it happen.  You would have headlines like 'Somethingmahalic II: The Whatevering Outsells Consoles On PC!' on every PC gaming site.  Why can't you find that article?

 

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That is 100 million less console gamers in 6 years.

How is that LESS gamers?  The only way this statement works is if every game console instantly vaporized the moment it's successor was released.   The Xbox 360 only ceased manufacture in April of this year.  The most recent Xbox 360 game released two weeks ago according to Metrcitic.

 

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/release-date/new-releases/xbox360/date

 

PS3?  Production of new units only ended last year and it's still getting new releases:

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/release-date/new-releases/ps3/date

 

Why did the people buying the hardware until recently and the people who still buy the software stop being 'gamers who counted' in your eyes?

[Miguel Batista]

12 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

You got me there.  I totally screwed up the dates and knowing the game was newer I should have caught that.

 

It's super convenient that you fail to link this interview.  Please link it, I have no interest in what you're 'sure you remember'.

 

I get the mistake you made here and I admit that it'd be easy to make.  You think that the PC physical copies are separate from the Steam sales but this is incorrect.  Skyrim's physical copies were Steamworks titles.  Every physical copy of Skyrim is activated by a Steam account and being counted by SteamSpy.  So, no, that's 2.92 million copies that you mistakenly counted up to twice.

 

But you haven't even cited any numbers for console sales, so how can your argument even state that the PC numbers that you incorrectly cited were higher than the console numbers that you didn't cite at all?

 

It's cool, I'll cite some numbers, with links!

 

http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/

 

So 23 million units sold across all platforms.  Even if we take the number SteamSpy gives for ALL 'owners', including the untold number who tried it for 5mins on the free weekends, that's only 11.2 million, that's not even halfway to 23.3 million and we know that 11.2 million is a grossly exaggerated number, even SteamSpy gives a warning on that number because they know it's unreliable.  So we are well short of 50%+1.  All we have are your blind 'assurances' that it sold more, contrary to any available numbers.

 

And, I really want to make this clear; If a world wide released multiplatform title outsold consoles with PC ports, that would be news and you would have no difficulty finding the 30 different articles written about that event.  You would not have to scower numbers and try to guess or fudge your way to make it happen.  You would have headlines like 'Somethingmahalic II: The Whatevering Outsells Consoles On PC!' on every PC gaming site.  Why can't you find that article?

 

How is that LESS gamers?  The only way this statement works is if every game console instantly vaporized the moment it's successor was released.   The Xbox 360 only ceased manufacture in April of this year.  The most recent Xbox 360 game released two weeks ago according to Metrcitic.

 

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/release-date/new-releases/xbox360/date

 

PS3?  Production of new units only ended last year and it's still getting new releases:

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/release-date/new-releases/ps3/date

 

Why did the people buying the hardware until recently and the people who still buy the software stop being 'gamers who counted' in your eyes?

Yeah... I am doing this on mule phone so posting links is a bother. Here's the interview:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/cd-projekt-reds-marcin-iwinski-most-of-the-witcher-sales-are-for-the-pc/

It's from a YouTube interview close to the launch of Witcher 3.

 

The numbers from statistit brain  (cool site btw) raised are different from the the ones I read which were close to the release (12 million total) and not agglomeration numbers so I was wrong with regards to Skyrim.

Here's another interesting website with a curious methodology. Mind you they only keep track of physical copies so a mix between this and steamspy should provide interesting results:

 

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=skyrim&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

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Regarding market share, lower number of units sold is a smaller market. Sure people still game on he 360 and PS3 (heck, I still takeen my PS2 out of the cupboard and plug it it now and again for nostalgia's sake) That doesn't mean that they vaporized but it means new releases will Ave a smaller audience than the previous generation. Now I know correlation is not causation but add to that the growth of the PC market space (and only based on steam data and not on other platforms like GoG, Origin and battlenet) and the picture for consoles starts to become not so bright. Consoles outsell pc for now in the same games but I suppose I could be bothered and track a game series over a period of releases and compare the numbers through steamspy and vgchartz and see the market fluctuations... 

 

Skyrim

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=skyrim&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

 

http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=Skyrim

 

Oblivion

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=Oblivion&publisher=&platform=&genre=&minSales=0&results=200

 

http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=Oblivion

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So oblivion (2006) sold 7.4 million on consoles and 1.6 on steam on PC (disregarding physical copies not Steam distributed) which is about 17% of sales whereas skyrim (2013) sold 15.18 million copies on consoles and the most conservative estimate pointed to 5.4 million on Steam so even that is 27%. if we go by Steamspy'says number as a maximum estimate then that number changes to 42%. Of course two points don'the male for a linear regression so we can add fallout 3 (2008) which sold 8.87 million on consoles and 2.32 on pc to get a market share of around 21% and then fallout 4 (2015) which sold 11.12 on consoles and 3.71 on pc which gives us 25%. So now we can get somewhat of a trend. Of course older games tend to sell more on pc due to Steam sales and humble bundles but it is what it is. For fallout 3 I only considered goty edition users. 

And a final note, of course more games have to be used covering different genres but because we had talked about skyrim I made these with Bethesda titles.

 

Final disclaimer 2: if you want to play on consoles, that is fine by me. I am merely arguing that they are a dying breed. Which makes sense if you consider our society is moving towards system that integrate more and more functions together and consoles are very limited in what they can offer compared to a PC not to mention that laptops with gaming grade cards are getting cheaper and cheaper and for many young people, a laptop will be a necessity and a console a luxury so if they have to choose one laptop will win.

 

[AshleyAshes]

2 minutes ago, Miguel Batista said:

Yeah... I am doing this on mule phone so posting links is a bother. Here's the interview:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/cd-projekt-reds-marcin-iwinski-most-of-the-witcher-sales-are-for-the-pc/

It's from a YouTube interview close to the launch of Witcher 3.

Exact quote from the interview subtitles.  "Most of the Witcher sales in Poland are for PC."  Why didn't you quote this?  Did you not even read/watch the interview?  Why are you wasting our time misreading and desperately grabbing for numbers that always fail to prove your point?  Congrats, The Witcher outsold consoles vs PC in a single Eastern European with a population 10% that of The United States alone, in a region where for various economic reasons, PCs often do perform very well in the market.  Talk about cherry picking your information to make some global point.

 

That's all you got?  I don't even get why you keep running around in this circle.  You're just embarrassing yourself.

[Miguel Batista]

21 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Exact quote from the interview subtitles.  "Most of the Witcher sales in Poland are for PC."  Why didn't you quote this?  Did you not even read/watch the interview?  Why are you wasting our time misreading and desperately grabbing for numbers that always fail to prove your point?  Congrats, The Witcher outsold consoles vs PC in a single Eastern European with a population 10% that of The United States alone, in a region where for various economic reasons, PCs often do perform very well in the market.  Talk about cherry picking your information to make some global point.

 

That's all you got?  I don't even get why you keep running around in this circle.  You're just embarrassing yourself.

Yes, I read this interview back in 2015... And I am not running in circles. I am merely arguing that consoles are disappearing and the game debate was a tangent. I already admitted I was wrong. I don'the know how that is "embarrassing myself" I find your general tone and aggressiveness over this issue more embarrassing. I also find embarrassing that you keep hitting that one point instead of my broader claim that consoles are disappearing. I posted plenty of links and data on my previous post that you fail to address. so, let me state again my argument:

Lower console sales and an increase in the pc market size means that consoles will not be around for long. I might be wrong but a loss of sales in the order of 40 million for ps4 and 70 million for xbone compared to the previous generation is huge. It means that newer titles that are not released for previous gen consoles are missing a huge chunk of market.The PS4 pro is one of sony's answers to fight this. If they thought everything was fine, they wouldn't have bothered. 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/www.polygon.com/platform/amp/2016/9/9/12867004/ps4-pro-vs-pc-xbox-one-project-scorpio&ved=0ahUKEwiIiNLa4q_QAhUsIsAKHe1xAL4QFggaMAA&usg=AFQjCNEuysJkJduMCI5k1Et0Dy5zGHKtUQ&sig2=R5JAP9jZ1lO10C5eSGfkgQ

 

Here is a link from Sony's boss saying just that. Enjoy.

[AshleyAshes]

5 minutes ago, Miguel Batista said:

Lower console sales and an increase in the pc market size means that consoles will not be around for long. I might be wrong but a loss of sales in the order of 40 million for ps4 and 70 million for xbone compared to the previous generation is huge.

So, the Xbox 360 was in production and on sale for 10.5 years to push 84 million units, where as the Xbox One has been on the market three years come next week has sold a rough 20 million units, this is prove of a 60-70 million unit decline in sales for you...  Again, why are you so disparate to massage confirmation of your views out of some pretty wacky interpretation of numbers?  Not that I don't find it super interesting that you expect the Xbox One to sell as many units as the Xbox 360 in only 30% time on the market or else it's a 'decline' for you.

[Miguel Batista]

6 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

So, the Xbox 360 was in production and on sale for 10.5 years to push 84 million units, where as the Xbox One has been on the market three years come next week has sold a rough 20 million units, this is prove of a 60-70 million unit decline in sales for you...  Again, why are you so disparate to massage confirmation of your views out of some pretty wacky interpretation of numbers?  Not that I don't find it super interesting that you expect the Xbox One to sell as many units as the Xbox 360 in only 30% time on the market or else it's a 'decline' for you.

That is actually a good point. Maybe they will outsell previous generations I was doing the maths considering the introduction of the PS4 pro as anot her console but it is not. the standard ps4 is going to continue to be sold. And the Xbox 1 S which has even tempted me due to the cheap 4k bluray reader. So let's see.

 

However, the PC market continues to grow fast and since PCs are in a good spot right now (it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to outperform a PS4 or an xbone) and sony released the ps4 pro to prevent more people to join the PC gaming community which means they are getting worried about it. We will see. 

I will leave you with this so you don'the think I am unfair. I also have issues against Origin and windows' store because of EA's and microsoft anti consumer tactics and general pricing.

[Prysin]

35 minutes ago, Miguel Batista said:

That is actually a good point. Maybe they will outsell previous generations I was doing the maths considering the introduction of the PS4 pro as anot her console but it is not. the standard ps4 is going to continue to be sold. And the Xbox 1 S which has even tempted me due to the cheap 4k bluray reader. So let's see.

 

However, the PC market continues to grow fast and since PCs are in a good spot right now (it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to outperform a PS4 or an xbone) and sony released the ps4 pro to prevent more people to join the PC gaming community which means they are getting worried about it. We will see. 

I will leave you with this so you don'the think I am unfair. I also have issues against Origin and windows' store because of EA's and microsoft anti consumer tactics and general pricing.

i think you missed the news that Playstation sales are up 200% after the release of the PS4 Pro.

www.mcvuk.com/news/read/ps4-console-sales-up-204-following-pro-launch/0175282

 

@AshleyAshes

obviously consoles are dying. The PS4 is only selling 200% more then before. Not a good sign. Must be at least 1000% more for consoles to not die.

[AshleyAshes]

18 minutes ago, Prysin said:

 

@AshleyAshes

obviously consoles are dying. The PS4 is only selling 200% more then before. Not a good sign. Must be at least 1000% more for consoles to not die.

And obviously PCs and Consoles are in direct competition!  That's why they've coexisted on the market for the last 40 years! :3

[Prysin]

34 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

And obviously PCs and Consoles are in direct competition!  That's why they've coexisted on the market for the last 40 years! :3

YES!

not to mention that it is impossible for consoles to do anything better then PCs. This is why it's taken so long for PCs to win.

[othertomperson]

On 14/11/2016 at 11:35 PM, Doobeedoo said:

Doubt anyone would stick to old API and not DX12 cause benefit is really great. Many started, many will even more. Just needs time, like always.

There are still Directx 9 games being made. You're expecting the people who made Arkham Knight to write for PC at a low level. Not going to happen. Low Level APIs have existed before Dix11, and they died because of the amount of work needed for negligible benefit. There's SFR, Asynchronous Compute, and that's about it that cannot be done with Dx11 with good driver support.

[Doobeedoo]

1 hour ago, othertomperson said:

There are still Directx 9 games being made. You're expecting the people who made Arkham Knight to write for PC at a low level. Not going to happen. Low Level APIs have existed before Dix11, and they died because of the amount of work needed for negligible benefit. There's SFR, Asynchronous Compute, and that's about it that cannot be done with Dx11 with good driver support.

Those games are from smaller studios, or those that can't afford extra effort and maybe not games that that are hard to run. And Arkham Knight was a terrible mess, it's a story of it's own with be it inexperienced people, lack of time, shit port in general and all that. While it needs some extra work, it's not that much more amount as you'd think really. But it pays off a lot. It's nit just SFR, Asynchronous Compute, there's more to it. Better CPU multi-core workload, less overhead, etc.

Benefit is there, those that see it can and will use it, cause it simply makes sense. It will take some time, like always with new API when it appears.

DOOM once it received Vulkan update got such a large increase in performance, I noticed it quite much, numbers show too.