Astro a40 Vs Steelseries siberia elite

[DaftBehemoth]

HD 558's aren't the cheapest option, I assume @DaftBehemoth was just giving an example at a price comparable to Astros after adding a mic. 

That is exactly it.

[ShadyHost]

I did, in my opinion they can't match $100 cheaper Sennheiser HD558 in audio quality and comfort, and PC360 in positional audio. When I buy headphones I don't want gimmicks that are on every commercial "gaming" headset (Astro, Corsair, CM storm, Razer), but I get something that looks and performs pretty basic, but with quality that blows away the concurrence. That is what Sennheiser does and I trust them when it comes to audio, Linus, an audiophile guy does as well, if Astros were better then he would say so and use them.

 

And that's fine. I do want a microphone and (less important) wireless. 

[Parkway Drive]

I now use a $1.28 AUD boom mic from ebay. Better mic than any headset mic I've used, including the ones on the Astro A50s I've tried...just saying.

I think I mentioned this in a previous thread but without the mixamp, most astro headsets are very average. For the price they're listed, I can't recommend them.

This goes similar with the Siberia Elites. I've heard the mic quality is pretty bad, which is a surprise since the Siberia V2 have a great mic. But for the price they're listed in Australia ($249), they're just not worth it.

 

If you 100% need a headset, get something cheap like the Siberia V2. ***(even then you can get better headphone + mic at the sub $100 mark, but I digress)

If you want better audio and a better gaming experience...there's a reason headphones + mic are highly recommended.

 

Whether or not you take anyone's advice on these forums is up to you, all...(majority some) of the guys here are trying to help you make informed decisions based on their own experiences.

Goodluck

[ShadyHost]

Well, every mic is going to pick up background noise and have static. If the static isn't much quieter than your voice, you've got a problem with your environment or equipment. 

 

Noise cancelling mics are a neat "feature" on gaming headsets, but the dual mics they use are usually of such poor quality that it doesn't make a difference (in my experience at least).

 

 

HD 558's aren't the cheapest option, I assume @DaftBehemoth was just giving an example at a price comparable to Astros after adding a mic. Superlux makes good cheap headphones, there's a pretty good $20 monoprice headphone, and Pioneer's SE-A1000 is audiophile-grade sound for $40-$60 usually. Add any ole cheap lapel mic for $10 (and sometimes less) and you've got the best bang for your buck.

 

This is all US pricing, of course - sometimes I do recommend a headset if we can't find a good alternative based on an OP's needs and product availability. You were right to grab a gaming headset for wireless, but if OP doesn't want wireless, why is that a point in your argument?

 

 

I was just pointing out that Astros are not BAD, just not the best for content creation or for someone who really values audio quality as the #1 reason for buying headphones. 

 

The OP is asking about A40s vs Steelseries Siberia Elites. 

The A40s and A50s are exactly the same aside from the wireless and built in mixamp. 

I have used the Siberia V2s at the Raleigh MLG event and they were not as good as the Astros (Siberia v2s are also $150 less than A40s.)

 

 

My suggestion is get A40s if you can front the cash. The ear cups are magical on your ears almost like pillows on your face. 

Audio quality is amazing, but again I am not an audiophile. There are no pops or crackles like some cheaper headphones. You can crank up the volume and it wont crap out on your. EQ settings are nice if you watch movies, you can change it to bass heavy. There is also a "supercrunch" setting which makes everything high pitched stand out so you can hear footsteps and grenades and all that. They no longer sell the wireless A40s so if that is something you would be interested in the a50s are the wireless ones. The microphone is pretty fantastic on the Astros I know a lot of livestreamers use the Astros because of the nice mic. 

 

Please note that my suggestion is based on the Siberia V2 and not the Elite. I like Steelseries headsets but I prefer Astros. 

 

 

And yes if you just need high quality headphones the Sennheiser ones are cheaper. Astros for gaming. Steelseries for budget gaming. Sennheiser for audiophiles on a budget (at least the cheaper ones)

[Parkway Drive]

[MayflowerElectronics]

Yep.

[ShearMe]

not the best for ... someone who really values audio quality as the #1 reason for buying headphones. 

 

I'm sorry, don't want to be rude, but what the heck else can you use headphones for? 

 

 

EQ settings are nice if you watch movies, you can change it to bass heavy. There is also a "supercrunch" setting which makes everything high pitched stand out so you can hear footsteps and grenades and all that. 

 

So buy an expensive headset because it comes with EQ settings?

[DaftBehemoth]

I was just pointing out that Astros are not BAD, just not the best for content creation or for someone who really values audio quality as the #1 reason for buying headphones. 

I think it's nice that you're pleased with your Astro headset, but you're suggesting that someone should purchase an inferior product at a higher price. Please don't let your bias skew your advice. The whole point of having a forum like this is to help people make the BEST possible choices. Not the choice one that validates your own decision.

[Timmyfox]

Neither. Headphones + Mic.

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/18617-the-audio-boards-frequently-asked-questions-pre-answered/

 

This.

 

The rule of thumb is to avoid any brand that specializes in gaming which rules out both Astro and Steelseries (the Siberia V2 sounded horrible to my ears tbh).

 

For the price of the a40/Siberia elite you can get the WAY better sounding Sennheiser PC360. The soundstage on the PC360's (and the HD500-series) have excellent wide soundstage which greatly benefits depth and accuracy in positioning. No kidding, just regular "2.0" audio without any software of modifications on my HD 598's gives BETTER positional audio than every single headset I've tested that has 7.1 and all that marketing junk.

 

 

I'm not doubting that the HD558's are great headphones, but Astros were top dog for a long time for gaming headphones. 

 

[snip]

 

The directional audio works well and they are great for movies, music and games. 

 

 

That said, if you are an audio enthusiast who can hear pops and crackles on a super human level, by all means spend however much you want on headphones. 

 

I see a pair of HD558s are around $130 on amazon, but it lacks the built in microphone and it isn't wireless. I did my research before spending money on Astros and I determined that they fit my needs and the sound quality is great.

So then since have not tested something in the range/quality of the HD558's you are fairly biased because it seems the Astro's are the highest quality headphones you've been using. Sure they might be great and "top dog for gaming" but honestly that says very little to me.

 

Who said you have to be an audio enthusiast to hear the difference? I've already explained above how a pair of headphones/headsets made to have good actual sound quality as opposed to just milking gamers for money sound much clearer with more detail and have better positional audio. Where I live the HD558's are cheaper than the a40's, so the argument is imo rather that gaming- branded products are overpriced due to, well, that they are branded for being good for gaming and not actual sound quality.

 

If you want a microphone, just get any cheap and simple clip-on mic or get the PC360. The PC360's are essentially HD558's with build in mic, although they are somewhat less comfortable in my experience.

 

Wireless? Okay, they win on that but, honestly,  I don't like wireless too much as it's prone to interference and can cause some unlikeable distortions. The way I have my desk set up, cables are a non-issue and the 558's come with a detachable cable that is kinda ridiculously long (not a problem though if you know how to do basic cable management). I can easily carry my headphones from edge to edge in my room without having problem with the cable being too short (or getting in the way)

[ShadyHost]

I think it's nice that you're pleased with your Astro headset, but you're suggesting that someone should purchase an inferior product at a higher price. Please don't let your bias skew your advice. The whole point of having a forum like this is to help people make the BEST possible choices. Not the choice one that validates your own decision.

 

 

But he ASKED about the A40s vs the Siberia Elites. 

 

Not to suggest other headsets. 

[ShadyHost]

I'm sorry, don't want to be rude, but what the heck else can you use headphones for? 

 

 

 

So buy an expensive headset because it comes with EQ settings?

 

If you sit around and listen to music all day the Sennheiser headphones work great. 

 

But I bought Astros because they have features that I really want. I walk around my house and talk to my friends on Skype which is easy to do with wireless. The microphone is super nice and it actually attached to the headphones. I don't want a bunch of tangled wires hanging off my head to "Ghetto rig" better audio. 

 

 

Now if we can go back to what the OP asked: A40s vs Siberia Elites

 

My opinion comes from using both A50s (which are pretty much the same as A40s) and the Siberia V2s. My experience with the V2s was great but I am glad I spent the extra money to get the Astros. I suggest find someone who has used both A40s and Siberia Elites. 

 

If Sennheisers were as good as you say they are, nobody would buy Astros and they would just go out of business. 

Not saying that the Sennheisers are BAD, just it is the bare minimum of what headphones can be. 

I want a mic, I want wireless, and I want built in EQ settings. I want to plug it in and it will work. I want comfortable ear cups. I want a finished product that has an instruction manual and documentation. I am NOT an audio enthusiast. I play games. 

 

Sennheiser doesn't have the things I want. Stop being ignorant. 

[Timmyfox]

If you sit around and listen to music all day the Sennheiser headphones work great. 

 

But I bought Astros because they have features that I really want. I walk around my house and talk to my friends on Skype which is easy to do with wireless. The microphone is super nice and it actually attached to the headphones. I don't want a bunch of tangled wires hanging off my head to "Ghetto rig" better audio. 

 

[snip]

 

If Sennheisers were as good as you say they are, nobody would buy Astros and they would just go out of business. 

Not saying that the Sennheisers are BAD, just it is the bare minimum of what headphones can be. 

I want a mic, I want wireless, and I want built in EQ settings. I want to plug it in and it will work. I want comfortable ear cups. I want a finished product that has an instruction manual and documentation. I am NOT an audio enthusiast. I play games. 

 

Sennheiser doesn't have the things I want. Stop being ignorant. 

I think people like you are the prime reason these gaming brands sell as much as they do. It's called marketing.

Niche features, "cool" designs, a lot of promise and a race to have the best and widest featureset etc etc..

 

You don't need to be an audio enthusiast to benefit from a higher quality headphone. Better sound quality benefits games and movies just as much as music. "Gaming optimized" means that you're making certain tone ranges sound worse and less clear in order to bring out the tonal ranges gamers mostly care about (such as bass/mids for voices and footsteps) more which compensates for the fact that it is a lower quality driver which means it's not super detailed and generally not very great in sound quality. Proper headphones such as Beyerdynamics or Sennheisers don't need to do this because their drivers are already great from the start and thus gives you a more immerse experience with greater depth and realism.

 

The PC360 has a built in mic and is very close to the 558's in terms of sound quality.

Wireless? Sennheiser MM-400X is wireless and has a built in mic. There's also a ton of options to make just about any wired headphone wireless; The 558's has a detatchable cable - if someone were to make an accessory that fits it with a wireless receiver you could use that to turn them wireless. Another option is to buy a wireless station with receiver kit which works by simply plugging the end of the cable into the receiver piece and just putting it in your pocket or whatever. Not fully wireless, but it has the same benefits.

 

EQ? I highly advice ANYONE who cares about either music or games to get a decent sound card. Any product of the Asus Xonar series has an EQ feature with the driver software.

Personally I don't give a *** about EQ's. With better sound quality comes a significant decrease in the need to modify the already great-sounding audio.

 

Just work? Any wired headphone (same for some USB ones) is always plug n' play. Wireless it should be easy to install if it isn't plug n' play out the box. Any wireless station that plugs in to the sound card instead of USB (get one of these!) works as long as the sound card does. The only thing you may need to do is press a button or two in order to pair it.

[MayflowerElectronics]

@Timmyfox you were doing good until you got to the sound card part. If you want to EQ, use onboard drivers or your media player.

[ShadyHost]

I think people like you are the prime reason these gaming brands sell as much as they do. It's called marketing.

Niche features, "cool" designs, a lot of promise and a race to have the best and widest featureset etc etc..

 

You don't need to be an audio enthusiast to benefit from a higher quality headphone. Better sound quality benefits games and movies just as much as music. "Gaming optimized" means that you're making certain tone ranges sound worse and less clear in order to bring out the tonal ranges gamers mostly care about (such as bass/mids for voices and footsteps) more which compensates for the fact that it is a lower quality driver which means it's not super detailed and generally not very great in sound quality. Proper headphones such as Beyerdynamics or Sennheisers don't need to do this because their drivers are already great from the start and thus gives you a more immerse experience with greater depth and realism.

 

The PC360 has a built in mic and is very close to the 558's in terms of sound quality.

Wireless? Sennheiser MM-400X is wireless and has a built in mic. There's also a ton of options to make just about any wired headphone wireless; The 558's has a detatchable cable - if someone were to make an accessory that fits it with a wireless receiver you could use that to turn them wireless. Another option is to buy a wireless station with receiver kit which works by simply plugging the end of the cable into the receiver piece and just putting it in your pocket or whatever. Not fully wireless, but it has the same benefits.

 

EQ? I highly advice ANYONE who cares about either music or games to get a decent sound card. Any product of the Asus Xonar series has an EQ feature with the driver software.

Personally I don't give a *** about EQ's. With better sound quality comes a significant decrease in the need to modify the already great-sounding audio.

 

Just work? Any wired headphone (same for some USB ones) is always plug n' play. Wireless it should be easy to install if it isn't plug n' play out the box. Any wireless station that plugs in to the sound card instead of USB (get one of these!) works as long as the sound card does. The only thing you may need to do is press a button or two in order to pair it.

 

Like I said in several of my previous posts, the Sennheisers are not bad headphones. 

Not once did I say one brand was better than the other. 

 

I like my Astros because they have the features I was looking for. I had worn A40s at a tournament before purchasing the a50s. 

I did my research and it was clear that a lot of people were recommending the Astros. 

 

That said we can agree to disagree.

 

Also I can't believe you recommended these. They look silly:

[Timmyfox]

@Timmyfox you were doing good until you got to the sound card part. If you want to EQ, use onboard drivers or your media player.

Yes of course, but now not all onboard audio solutions have an EQ-feature, and since not everyone has a DAC with its own EQ, going with a decent sound card that's not too expensive (which imo everyone should own because dedicated > on board in pretty much every case) would be the best and most universal option. Somethat that works with every audio player and whatnot.

A hardware EQ is better in pretty much every single aspect indeed, but it also costs a fair bunch for just that.

 

Like I said in several of my previous posts, the Sennheisers are not bad headphones. 

Not once did I say one brand was better than the other. 

 

I like my Astros because they have the features I was looking for. I had worn A40s at a tournament before purchasing the a50s. 

I did my research and it was clear that a lot of people were recommending the Astros. 

 

Also I can't believe you recommended these. They look silly:

Yep I did. It's called function over form. The folding is for portability.

Can't say how well they sound compared to for example the HD 558's, but surely they should sound fairly well considering the price point and Sennheisers' reputation in these markets.

[MayflowerElectronics]

Yes of course, but now not all onboard audio solutions have an EQ-feature, and since not everyone has a DAC with its own EQ, going with a decent sound card that's not too expensive (which imo everyone should own because dedicated > on board in pretty much every case) would be the best and most universal option. Somethat that works with every audio player and whatnot.

A hardware EQ is better in pretty much every single aspect indeed, but it also costs a fair bunch for just that.

 

Yep I did. It's called function over form. The folding is for portability.

Can't say how well they sound compared to for example the HD 558's, but surely they should sound fairly well considering the price point and Sennheisers' reputation in these markets.

 

Bull, all on-board solutions have an EQ.

 

Most sound cards are a step backwards in your audio chain. 

 

Nobody uses a hardware EQ. 

 

If you're going to be posting this, make sure you know what you are talking about. Please read the FAQ at the top of the audio forum.

[Parkway Drive]

Bull, all on-board solutions have an EQ.

 

Most sound cards are a step backwards in your audio chain. 

 

Nobody uses a hardware EQ. 

 

If you're going to be posting this, make sure you know what you are talking about. Please read the FAQ at the top of the audio forum.

+1

 

I don't think I've come across any audio solution including on-board that didn't already allow for EQ. Pretty sure 99.9% of the usual realtek have a built in EQ, I sure know I've always had one, all my client builds have on-board audio EQ and any of my mates have as well.

 

Oh and since the last time I posted:

 

...

 

[Timmyfox]

Bull, all on-board solutions have an EQ.

 

Most sound cards are a step backwards in your audio chain. 

 

Nobody uses a hardware EQ. 

 

If you're going to be posting this, make sure you know what you are talking about. Please read the FAQ at the top of the audio forum.

Not all motherboards come with EQ-functionality in the driver software... It's maybe quite the norm on mid-high end and up nowadays, but far from -all-. The motherboard in my HTPC for one (AsRock, AMD E350-based) did not come with a fancy driver software with EQ. Nor does my laptop offer a system-wide software EQ.

You can download and use 3rd party software for it, yes. But FAR from all onboard solutions offer you EQ-functionality in the driver software.

By EQ I, of course, mean a graphical equalizer software where you can modify some sliders to change how everything sounds.

 

Nobody uses hardware EQ? Well surely it exists for a reason. Hardware EQ is better in the respect that it doesn't distort the audio the same way software EQ does, and the amplification works in a much better way generally. Surely audiophiles and recording studios would use them?

 

Then yet again. A digitally sourced sound card or DAC will still sound better than pretty much any onboard solution due to the simple fact that it's better separated and shielded from EMI. It has MUCH less distortion and a lot more detail. Even Linus himself recommends any gamer not to skip over a sound card. Regardless if it's a step backwards or not in the audio chain, it provides cleaner output with less noise and less distortion.

I have 1st hands experience going from the onboard on an ROG board (Crosshair IV formula) to a fairly good sound card (Xonar D2X). Even with my, at the time, crappy Logitech speakers. The difference in clarity was massive.

[ShearMe]

Nobody uses hardware EQ? Well surely it exists for a reason. Hardware EQ is better in the respect that it doesn't distort the audio the same way software EQ does, and the amplification works in a much better way generally. Surely audiophiles and recording studios would use them?

Professionally, sure, but no one sensible person uses hardware EQ at home for just listening.

Then yet again. A digitally sourced sound card or DAC will still sound better than pretty much any onboard solution due to the simple fact that it's better separated and shielded from EMI. It has MUCH less distortion and a lot more detail.

I don't care what kind of shielding the manufacturer says a soundcard has - if it's in the case it is vulnerable. That said, all the data I've read shows very little difference between onboard and a soundcard (probably an inaudible difference, especially when compared to an external DAC).

Most of us 'round here are against soundcards because their price/performance ratio is rather disgusting, especially when you realize FiiO E10's are cheaper than most "high end" soundcards.

Even Linus himself recommends any gamer not to skip over a sound card.

And there's your problem (no offense, Linus).

I have 1st hands experience going from the onboard on an ROG board (Crosshair IV formula) to a fairly good sound card (Xonar D2X). Even with my, at the time, crappy Logitech speakers. The difference in clarity was massive.

BONUS ROUND: Spot the zing word.

Not trying to disqualify any personal experience someone's had, but could it have sounded better simply because you wanted it to sound better?

[MayflowerElectronics]

 

I have 1st hands experience going from the onboard on an ROG board (Crosshair IV formula) to a fairly good sound card (Xonar D2X). Even with my, at the time, crappy Logitech speakers. The difference in clarity was massive.

 

Ignoring you're other responses, this one was the worst.

 

I'm going to go ahead and call that a lie. There's a big problem with people "thinking" they hear a difference and there's really not. I guarantee you if I put you in a ABX test you wouldn't hear a difference at all.

 

Speakers don't benefit much from a better than onboard DAC, especially low priced Logitech speakers.

 

Though this thread has been going widley off topic, I'm going to dis-miss myself from this thread at the threat of being yelled at by the mods. The OP wants to buy a crap headset, so let him waste his money. Good luck to all.

[Timmyfox]

Professionally, sure, but no one sensible person uses hardware EQ at home for just listening.

I don't care what kind of shielding the manufacturer says a soundcard has - if it's in the case it is vulnerable. That said, all the data I've read shows very little difference between onboard and a soundcard (probably an inaudible difference, especially when compared to an external DAC).

Most of us 'round here are against soundcards because their price/performance ratio is rather disgusting, especially when you realize FiiO E10's are cheaper than most "high end" soundcards.

Not trying to disqualify any personal experience someone's had, but could it have sounded better simply because you wanted it to sound better?

That's not what I said though. I just mentioned that hardware EQ's exist and are much better than software ones in many ways but also cost a lot of money.

 

That is is vulnerable doesn't mean that it's as suspect to the interference as onboard ones that often is badly positioned and doesn't do much to shield it at all. My Xonar STX has a huge ass copper plate and shroud covering the entire card plus it gets power from its a 4-pin molex connector in order to get an as clean power delivery as possible. The SNR rating is 120dB which is quite above that of your average onboard. I'm sure you're aware how dB is measured, right?

Please give me a source to all this data you've read. My sources which is various audio forums (head-fi, hydrogenaudio etc..) where people who have tested different configurations and explains in very good detail their experience and has documented their personal experiences. I also personally know some people who has done audio engineering as a major, so I've gotten quite some information from them.

 

Audio is all about personal experience. It's hard to hear the flaws in lesser audio quality until you've experienced better such.

Whats better audio quality is a mix of subjective and objective factors. Subjective factors are the "sound" and "signature" of the audio. Things like tonal balance and genre. Objective things is the reproduction quality - noise interference levels, distortion levels etc..

 

I'm going to go ahead and call that a lie. There's a big problem with people "thinking" they hear a difference and there's really not. I guarantee you if I put you in a ABX test you wouldn't hear a difference at all.

 

Speakers don't benefit much from a better than onboard DAC, especially low priced Logitech speakers.

They weren't really any low-priced logitech speakers but some Z-5500's. Not the greatest speakers ever but they did the job more or less.

I currently have a home-theater setup with some decent passive 5.1 Yamaha speakers, sub-woofer and a dedicated AV-receiver to power them.

Headphone-wise I use the Sennheiser HD598's with my Xonar STX sound card and the Sennheiser Momentum with my portable devices.

 

Now, both of you; Please explain why I head a difference with my headphones plugged into my phone, laptop, sound card or onboard (on an Asus P8Z68-v motherboard). This is not placebo but actual consistent experience from side-by-side testing.

 

Another thing I've found is that comparing my HD598 and Momentum with different sources yield different results. From my phone, the Momentum sounds marginally better, likely due to the lower impedance rating of 18 Ω compared to 50 Ω for the HD598. Phones and other portable devices (like my laptop) don't really have any great built in DACs and headphone amplifiers, meaning that the Momentum which has lower input impedance and is more optimized for such portable devices will deliver somewhat better audio quality under these conditions.

 

Now before you call that off as placebo or because they are very different headphones with different drivers (which they are): When I then plugged them both in to my sound card, I noticed that the Momentum gained some detail and clarity to the sound, yes, but the HD598 was the pair that improved the most going from the laptop/phone to the sound card. The results I heard had flipped; The HD598 sounded a lot clearer and had much more detail, especially in the highs, compared to the Momentum.

 

I'm not lying and I highly doubt all my personal experience is simple placebo. I've done several tests with this and my results are consistent.

 

If you choose not to believe me or still think there is no difference, fine, but I know what difference I've heard and my (and several others, including Linus himself, professional reviewers and many people on forums that's more audio-oriented rather than tech-oriented) experience is that it's more than just the DAC that comes into play as there are so many factors such as electronic interference, PCB design and quality, opamps, output impedance and calibration etc.. that comes into play. Many of these factors are so small it doesn't really matter, yes, but together they are many factors that can cause audible background noise and distortions.

 

And with that, I'm out. I'm tired of trying to argue with people who disregard my own documented personal experience and what most people consider common knowledge.

[Stonep11]

 

Though this thread has been going widley off topic, I'm going to dis-miss myself from this thread at the threat of being yelled at by the mods. The OP wants to buy a crap headset, so let him waste his money. Good luck to all.

I think some of the "crap headsets" like the Siberia Elites are not really all about audio quality. There are features besides pure audio and price/performance that many users care about.  The Siberia Elites for example are a very stylish headset, the lights look great, they are SUPER comfortable (the biggest factor for me), sound better than most people have ever hear, the included mic is good and moreover convenient.  Yeah it isn't the best you can get for $200, but it isn't the worst, its convenient (included USB soundcard, good software, attached mic), and it looks good.

[Parkway Drive]

Here we go again.

 

[ShearMe]

I think some of the "crap headsets" like the Siberia Elites are not really all about audio quality. There are features besides pure audio and price/performance that many users care about.  The Siberia Elites for example are a very stylish headset, the lights look great, they are SUPER comfortable (the biggest factor for me), sound better than most people have ever hear, the included mic is good and moreover convenient.  Yeah it isn't the best you can get for $200, but it isn't the worst, its convenient (included USB soundcard, good software, attached mic), and it looks good.

 

Yes, but this is the audio sub-forum. If someone wants a product with features instead of audio quality, they're looking for the Peripherals sub-forum.

 

My answers in bold, Timmy:

That is is vulnerable doesn't mean that it's as suspect to the interference as onboard ones that often is badly positioned and doesn't do much to shield it at all. My Xonar STX has a huge ass copper plate and shroud covering the entire card plus it gets power from its a 4-pin molex connector in order to get an as clean power delivery as possible. Gimmicks and nothing but. You can't isolate the components in a soundcard simply by throwing a metal shroud over part of it. They do often throw shielding on the DAC chip, but their marketing department wants you to think the shroud is the shield, and it simply isn't. If someone has a problem with their on board picking up EMI, I simply think it'd be best to get an external solution to best minimize EMI exposure as there's been plenty of accounts of soundcards picking up EMI too.

 

The SNR rating is 120dB which is quite above that of your average onboard. I'm sure you're aware how dB is measured, right? Do you? According to ASUS's marketing, average onboard audio's SNR is 90. This means that the noise floor is 90 dB quieter than the sound produced by the DAC. In this long and informative video, they have a segment where they mix in "noise" to various music. A quieter noise floor is always better, but spending real-world money on things you can't even hear the difference in is, well, silly.

.

Audio is all about personal experience. It's hard to hear the flaws in lesser audio quality until you've experienced better such. Whats better audio quality is a mix of subjective and objective factors. Subjective factors are the "sound" and "signature" of the audio. Things like tonal balance and genre. Objective things is the reproduction quality - noise interference levels, distortion levels etc.. Which is why I've put my money where my mouth is by purchasing an expensive tube amp and DAC and multiple headphones. I don't intend on pulling advice out of my butt. I don't see anyone arguing about tonal balance (probably because headsets don't have any).

 

Now, both of you; Please explain why I head a difference with my headphones plugged into my phone, laptop, sound card or onboard (on an Asus P8Z68-v motherboard). This is not placebo but actual consistent experience from side-by-side testing. You need to do blind testing to eliminate any placebo that might be present. Everyone's susceptible, even me, so this isn't any attempt to insult or berate anyone for hearing things they aren't hearing. I'm not doubting you heard a difference between a phone, laptop, and soundcard, but could you repeatedly pick which is which in a blind test? Could you subjectively pick a favorite "sound" and have your favorite be the most expensive option? That's all I was asking.

 

Another thing I've found is that comparing my HD598 and Momentum with different sources yield different results. From my phone, the Momentum sounds marginally better, likely due to the lower impedance rating of 18 Ω compared to 50 Ω for the HD598. Phones and other portable devices (like my laptop) don't really have any great built in DACs and headphone amplifiers, meaning that the Momentum which has lower input impedance and is more optimized for such portable devices will deliver somewhat better audio quality under these conditions. DACs output a line level, I think you're talking about the amp being substantially different across these devices. Don't doubt that either. Phones generally have poor amp circuits, and laptops are extremely vulnerable to EMI.

 

Now before you call that off as placebo or because they are very different headphones with different drivers (which they are): When I then plugged them both in to my sound card, I noticed that the Momentum gained some detail and clarity to the sound, yes, but the HD598 was the pair that improved the most going from the laptop/phone to the sound card. The results I heard had flipped; The HD598 sounded a lot clearer and had much more detail, especially in the highs, compared to the Momentum. "Clear" is the zing-word. Listen to any device, then turn up the volume, and suddenly everything will "sound a lot clearer and have much more detail." 

 

If you choose not to believe me or still think there is no difference, fine, but I know what difference I've heard and my (and several others, including Linus himself, professional reviewers and many people on forums that's more audio-oriented rather than tech-oriented) experience is that it's more than just the DAC that comes into play as there are so many factors such as electronic interference, PCB design and quality, opamps, output impedance and calibration etc.. that comes into play. Many of these factors are so small it doesn't really matter, yes, but together they are many factors that can cause audible background noise and distortions. I agree, the little things can add up, but I think you're misunderstanding what I've been saying. Soundcards are usually better than onboard audio. I don't think most of the regulars here would dispute that (except for the deal with output impedance). However, the improvements are so slight, that you're not spending your money wisely if all you want an improvement in the quality of your audio. For anything under $100, the FiiO E10 can beat it. For any soundcard above $100, you're best off spending your money on an Objective solution (ie, an O2 amp, and whatever external DAC you choose to fit the budget). WE WISH THERE WERE GOOD SOUNDCARDS. PLEASE ASUS, CREATIVE,  OR WHOEVER, PLEASE.

 

And with that, I'm out. I'm tired of trying to argue with people who disregard my own documented personal experience and what most people consider common knowledge. I'm sorry if anything I said came off wrong. I do not want to berate people who might have their facts wrong, who are trying to show me how I am wrong, or who might simply have a difference in opinion, whatever the case may be. If your soundcard is better sounding to you than your onboard - great! Use it! Get the best audio you can! All I want to do is help people spend their money wisely, help people learn things about audio that they want to know, and learn things about audio that I want to know.

[Parkway Drive]

Yes, but this is the audio sub-forum. If someone wants a product with features instead of audio quality, they're looking for the Peripherals sub-forum.

 

I was about to say exactly that. Right after I facepalm everyone.