[STALLED] Iris 16 - Building an RGB power button

[rjfaber91]

Just now, PCMasterDebater said:

Holy crap. No need to copy his entire post guy.

I shortened it in an edit, as I usually do if I forget to do so at first. I'm a very vocal detractor of quoting huge posts to put a small comment under it myself, so I'm absolutely with you that it would have been asinine had I not shortened it immediately afterwards.

[iFreilicht]

7 minutes ago, rjfaber91 said:

That's a lengthy stream of consciousness, but yes, having the settings pre-loaded onto the button would absolutely constitute plug-and-play as far as I'm concerned.

Ok, noted!

[PCMasterDebater]

2 hours ago, iFreilicht said:

Thanks to you two!  Yeah just calling it Vandal button would be the most simple name, but I need the name to be memorable so people who google it can find it easily.

 

I have a easier time remembering The Vandal button then other three names so if that's your goal. Go with that name. In fact, I already forgot the other 3 names you chose tbh. I recommend throwing that name in the mix to see what people think.

2 hours ago, iFreilicht said:

Yes, I want to make it from aluminium. The walls of the button should be thick enough to make that work. Anodising is an obvious choice for finish, but I don't want to rule out any other options

 

No thanks on the anodizing, but yes please to the polished Aluminum!

2 hours ago, iFreilicht said:

What constitutes plug and play for you? Some of the features are absolutely plug and play, but will require additional software.

Plug and Play would be like anything that is RGB. Plug it in, it lights up and gives you sometime of variable lighting to start with. Be it rainbow effects, color fade, instant color changing, mixed effects, just something. Having downloadable software that allows you to modify beyond that is a typical for product manufacturers now, so this concept is already understood and translates easily. Complicated/bloated or not, people are use to this. Its okay.

2 hours ago, iFreilicht said:

 

However, now that you mention this, I could make it so that you can choose what effects and colours are pre-loaded onto the button before it is delivered with so you don't have to change them yourself. I would then load those effects onto the button for you. The standard would probably be white colour, a short spinning ring animation when the PC is turned on and a dampened flashing animation during HDD activity.

 

You got the right idea  

[iFreilicht]

20 minutes ago, PCMasterDebater said:

I have a easier time remembering The Vandal button then other three names so if that's your goal. Go with that name.

Point is that Vandal Button is a commonly used term, Iris 16 isn't. Though it seems that the search term "RGB Vandal Button" on google already returns this project as the third result, so that's quite neat.

 

22 minutes ago, PCMasterDebater said:

Plug and Play would be like anything that is RGB. Plug it in, it lights up and gives you sometime of variable lighting to start with. Be it rainbow effects, color fade, instant color changing, mixed effects, just something. Having downloadable software that allows you to modify beyond that is a typical for product manufacturers now, so this concept is already understood and translates easily. Complicated/bloated or not, people are use to this. Its okay.

Ok, thanks a lot for the feedback!

 

23 minutes ago, PCMasterDebater said:

No thanks on the anodizing, but yes please to the polished Aluminum!

Would you mind if a polished silver button would be anodised with a clear colour? That improves surface hardness. You might be thinking about brushed surface finish.

[paddy-stone]

I really like this project of yours, and TBH the default settinsg you could pre-load it with before shipping sound right on the button to me

 

The only downside I can see to this as far as it would pertain to my own situation is with the software to change aspects of it, I would ideally like them also available for linux (debian) as that is my main OS now, though I guess it wouldn't be that much of a problem to boot into windows just to change a few settings if needs be.

Nice work by the way, I can't wait to see a prototype.

[rjfaber91]

Just now, paddy-stone said:

The only downside I can see to this as far as it would pertain to my own situation is with the software to change aspects of it, I would ideally like them also available for linux (debian) as that is my main OS now, though I guess it wouldn't be that much of a problem to boot into windows just to change a few settings if needs be.

Nice work by the way, I can't wait to see a prototype.

Exactly; that's why I was asking for plug-and-playness as well. One of the upcoming builds I'd like to use such a power switch on will be a NAS system, and I'm not yet sure what OS I'll run on that, but it might well not be Windows, so being able to have the settings either pre-loaded or to configure it once and then keep the settings in its own memory would be something of a requirement.

[iFreilicht]

13 minutes ago, paddy-stone said:

I really like this project of yours, and TBH the default settinsg you could pre-load it with before shipping sound right on the button to me

 

The only downside I can see to this as far as it would pertain to my own situation is with the software to change aspects of it, I would ideally like them also available for linux (debian) as that is my main OS now, though I guess it wouldn't be that much of a problem to boot into windows just to change a few settings if needs be.

Nice work by the way, I can't wait to see a prototype.

Thanks!

10 minutes ago, rjfaber91 said:

Exactly; that's why I was asking for plug-and-playness as well. One of the upcoming builds I'd like to use such a power switch on will be a NAS system, and I'm not yet sure what OS I'll run on that, but it might well not be Windows, so being able to have the settings either pre-loaded or to configure it once and then keep the settings in its own memory would be something of a requirement.

 

That's one of the advantages of the online-configuration tool that I outlined in the two edits:

 

To reiterate, the idea is that you would configure all the effects and colours on a web-tool, then download a hex/config file from there. The button would present itself to the system as a mass storage device, and to program it you simply move the config file you downloaded onto it with a file-browser. That way you can program it with anything that can act as an USB host, even a smartphone with OTG.

 

In a NAS situation with a headless OS, you could first do the online-configuration on your normal machine. Then you only need to mount the vandal button, copy the configuration file to the NAS with scp and move it onto the button. Does that sound like a solution for you?

[paddy-stone]

1 minute ago, rjfaber91 said:

Exactly; that's why I was asking for plug-and-playness as well. One of the upcoming builds I'd like to use such a power switch on will be a NAS system, and I'm not yet sure what OS I'll run on that, but it might well not be Windows, so being able to have the settings either pre-loaded or to configure it once and then keep the settings in its own memory would be something of a requirement.

Yes, I completely understand where you're coming from, and agree to some extent, but there should be a way around it, might be able to use WINE or as I said maybe a small windows partition to boot into if needed... there are some ultra small windows builds if you know where. I think if the button is pre-loaded with default settings it should be fine for most and if not there are ways around it. I mean it would be great if the software had a linux version too, but would completely understand if not feasible... I mean look at all the hardware from top manufacturers that STILL don't have a linux software for, like logitech for example, they have drivers that are compatible with certain kernel versions and later, but not the software like unifying devices... that is a BIG let down. So completely would understand if it's not feasible for the small business owner to do so.

[paddy-stone]

4 minutes ago, iFreilicht said:

Thanks!

 

That's one of the advantages of the online-configuration tool that I outlined in the two edits:

 

To reiterate, the idea is that you would configure all the effects and colours on a web-tool, then download a hex/config file from there. The button would present itself to the system as a mass storage device, and to program it you simply move the config file you downloaded onto it with a file-browser. That way you can program it with anything that can act as an USB host, even a smartphone with OTG.

 

In a NAS situation with a headless OS, you could first do the online-configuration on your normal machine. Then you only need to mount the vandal button, copy the configuration file to the NAS with scp and move it onto the button. Does that sound like a solution for you?

Would you need to copy the configuration to the NAS, if you could configure the button before installing into the case? the button would keep the memory as such wouldn't it? or is it volatile memory?

 

[edit] That sound great by the way if it's a browser config tool that doesn't suffer config loss if moving to another build or whatever... and also is then an option for people building a NAS, or even using a liveUSB would be an option then

 

[iFreilicht]

1 minute ago, paddy-stone said:

Would you need to copy the configuration to the NAS, if you could configure the button before installing into the case? the button would keep the memory as such wouldn't it? or is it volatile memory?

Oh sorry, forgot to mention. The configuration is stored on the EEPROM of the button, yes. No volatile memory involved. I won't make the mistake of walking in the footsteps of certain companies that require a darned account on their cloud service to change the lighting configuration of their keyboard.

 

So yes, you configure it once, and then never ever worry about it again.

[paddy-stone]

Just now, iFreilicht said:

Oh sorry, forgot to mention. The configuration is stored on the EEPROM of the button, yes. No volatile memory involved. I won't make the mistake of walking in the footsteps of certain companies that require a darned account on their cloud service to change the lighting configuration of their keyboard.

 

So yes, you configure it once, and then never ever worry about it again.

Awesome, I'm liking the sound of this more and more... it's a brilliant idea and even better because you are thinking of all the mistakes others have made and want your customers to be happy. The browser config is the best of ALL worlds, like I said even a LIVEusb then can then configure the device if needs be. Excellent!

I will almost definitely be in the market for one

 

[iFreilicht]

6 minutes ago, paddy-stone said:

Awesome, I'm liking the sound of this more and more... it's a brilliant idea and even better because you are thinking of all the mistakes others have made and want your customers to be happy.

I really do, that's what hope will set me apart from possible impostors. As I wrote in the OP, I want to make this open source hardware because the customer only profits from that. But, in the spirit of that I have to accept that others might try to capitalise on my idea and my work. So I have to do something that they can't copy

 

6 minutes ago, paddy-stone said:

The browser config is the best of ALL worlds, like I said even a LIVEusb then can then configure the device if needs be. Excellent!

Jup, that would work just fine. Good to hear that people like the idea of that, feedback like that is absolutely invaluable!

[rjfaber91]

6 minutes ago, iFreilicht said:

I really do, that's what hope will set me apart from possible impostors. As I wrote in the OP, I want to make this open source hardware because the customer only profits from that. But, in the spirit of that I have to accept that others might try to capitalise on my idea and my work. So I have to do something that they can't copy

True. If you really want to make something succesful these days, you have to look for that quality in the design and manufacturing of the product you're making. Otherwise, there'll doubtlessly be some company from the PRC that starts copying your design, and you'll spend weeks and months trying proving to the EU that they're copying you and there should be an import ban on their version. That kind of thing is simply not worth it unless you're a fully-fledged company, so making it open-source but differentiating yourself in terms of quality is an excellent way to go about it.

 

23 minutes ago, iFreilicht said:

In a NAS situation with a headless OS, you could first do the online-configuration on your normal machine. Then you only need to mount the vandal button, copy the configuration file to the NAS with scp and move it onto the button. Does that sound like a solution for you?

That certainly sounds like a solution, yes, though the pragmatist inside me would argue that it's even simpler to just temporarily attach the button to a Windows system, copy the configuration file directly onto the built-in memory from there, and then disconnecting it and mounting it in the system it will end up in. Anyway, I think you've hit on a very classy yet simple solution, yes.  

[iFreilicht]

5 minutes ago, rjfaber91 said:

Anyway, I think you've hit on a very classy yet simple solution, yes.  

Thanks!

 

6 minutes ago, rjfaber91 said:

True. If you really want to make something succesful these days, [...] That kind of thing is simply not worth it unless you're a fully-fledged company, so making it open-source but differentiating yourself in terms of quality is an excellent way to go about it.

Glad to hear we're on the same page here! I really hope that more small companies will go down that route in the future.

[TheRandomness]

Oh, just an idea I had.. with the packaging, pre-made lengths of cables would be nice, so you could choose a set and not have too much cabling. 

[iFreilicht]

6 minutes ago, TheRandomness said:

Oh, just an idea I had.. with the packaging, pre-made lengths of cables would be nice, so you could choose a set and not have too much cabling. 

Yeah, I want something like that, but I'll have to see how many different lengths are feasible or whether I could offer an additional option where you can get the exact length you want for a small additional fee. That's something that will be decided by the suppliers I can find, not myself.

 

I'll try my best though! If all else fails, at least the stock cable will be very easy to short.

[paddy-stone]

24 minutes ago, rjfaber91 said:

True. If you really want to make something succesful these days, you have to look for that quality in the design and manufacturing of the product you're making. Otherwise, there'll doubtlessly be some company from the PRC that starts copying your design, and you'll spend weeks and months trying proving to the EU that they're copying you and there should be an import ban on their version. That kind of thing is simply not worth it unless you're a fully-fledged company, so making it open-source but differentiating yourself in terms of quality is an excellent way to go about it.

 

That certainly sounds like a solution, yes, though the pragmatist inside me would argue that it's even simpler to just temporarily attach the button to a Windows system, copy the configuration file directly onto the built-in memory from there, and then disconnecting it and mounting it in the system it will end up in. Anyway, I think you've hit on a very classy yet simple solution, yes.  

If you're building a NAS anwyay, it'd probably be easier using a liveUSB to control the button before you go ahead and install the NAS system software. What NAS software are you going to use?

 

1 minute ago, TheRandomness said:

Oh, just an idea I had.. with the packaging, pre-made lengths of cables would be nice, so you could choose a set and not have too much cabling. 

That sounds good too, but depends on if it would drive the price up more really, cos that would be extra work for him for sure, plus extra materials... unless you mean that you could order different lengths to go with your button? eg 0.5M/1M etc that you could choose which one you would like. That'd be a good idea, so made to order basically.

 

Also, I don't know if I missed it in the diagrams etc, but would this cable then have 1 cable that goes to the USB header, which also splits off for the pins for HDD LED and start? or would they be separate cables complely? I truly apologise for this inane question, it's just been a hell of a long time since I did basic electric/electronics and haven't really dabbled in GPIO. The main reason I ask is that for my current mobo the USB 2 headers and case I/O pins are a fair way from each other.

[rjfaber91]

36 minutes ago, paddy-stone said:

What NAS software are you going to use?

Not sure yet. I know there's a few options out there, but at the moment I'm mainly planning the physical aspects of the build, and I'll leave the software side of things for later. I do just want to keep my options open though, and not commit to having to use software that'll restrict me to using Windows for an OS.

[iFreilicht]

@TheRandomness Interesting OT, I think I found where your profile gif comes from: 

 

6 hours ago, paddy-stone said:

That sounds good too, but depends on if it would drive the price up more really, cos that would be extra work for him for sure, plus extra materials... unless you mean that you could order different lengths to go with your button? eg 0.5M/1M etc that you could choose which one you would like. That'd be a good idea, so made to order basically.

I wouldn't make the cables myself, that's far too much work for me to handle in a short period. It would take forever to get the buttons shipped. But yes, the idea would be to have the choice of different lengths of cable when buying. Maybe it would even be possible to order the cables sleeved. I'll try get you people as many options as possible

 

6 hours ago, paddy-stone said:

Also, I don't know if I missed it in the diagrams etc, but would this cable then have 1 cable that goes to the USB header, which also splits off for the pins for HDD LED and start? or would they be separate cables complely? I truly apologise for this inane question, it's just been a hell of a long time since I did basic electric/electronics and haven't really dabbled in GPIO. The main reason I ask is that for my current mobo the USB 2 headers and case I/O pins are a fair way from each other.

Yes, that's correct. Having one cable is more convenient to route than two and it's easier to manufacture as well. That's interesting about your mainboard, which one is it? I've checked a whole lot of recently released boards and on almost all of them, the USB headers were extremely close to the I/O pins.

 

That said, there are multiple solutions for this, but they all revolve around extending part of the cables. ModDIY for example sells an internal USB extension cable. This one isn't shielded, but it should still work.

 

Rather, I would recommend something like these Front panel extension cables:

 

 

If you're on a budget, you can also search for "Breadboard male female wire" or "Dupont male female". Those come in many different lengths and colours.

[paddy-stone]

12 hours ago, rjfaber91 said:

Not sure yet. I know there's a few options out there, but at the moment I'm mainly planning the physical aspects of the build, and I'll leave the software side of things for later. I do just want to keep my options open though, and not commit to having to use software that'll restrict me to using Windows for an OS.

I would recommend freeNAS, it's great once you have a basic understanding of it, and a plan in mind for the structure of the datasets and who has access to them... I'm no expert by any means, but by a little trial and error you can usually get where you're wanting to go. The main thing IMO is to set up the datasets and users without adding a lot of data into the volume... that way you're getting to test the usefulness of the NAS without having to shift data around a lot, literally just need a few files to test whether they execute etc is all.

Looking forward to seeing your Ryzen rig completed by the way, I'm now deciding whether to sell my newly built i7 6700K rig and build a Ryzen rig myself.. or just sell the CPU/mobo and get Ryzen CPU/mobo - will probably go with the latter as it's easier. I also have my old test rig to sell parts of too, now that the PSU blew up anyway, lol. I also have my old-old CPU which I just happen to have the 1055t x6 same as you, I know I won't get much for it, but seeing as it was my test rig for the last 3 -5 years, and then got put in the attic when I built my newest rig and the i5 4670K build became my test rig... yes it's a big jumble all the parts I have as "spares" that should really be sold at this point, lol.

 

6 hours ago, iFreilicht said:

@TheRandomness Interesting OT, I think I found where your profile gif comes from: 

 

I wouldn't make the cables myself, that's far too much work for me to handle in a short period. It would take forever to get the buttons shipped. But yes, the idea would be to have the choice of different lengths of cable when buying. Maybe it would even be possible to order the cables sleeved. I'll try get you people as many options as possible

 

Yes, that's correct. Having one cable is more convenient to route than two and it's easier to manufacture as well. That's interesting about your mainboard, which one is it? I've checked a whole lot of recently released boards and on almost all of them, the USB headers were extremely close to the I/O pins.

 

That said, there are multiple solutions for this, but they all revolve around extending part of the cables. ModDIY for example sells an internal USB extension cable. This one isn't shielded, but it should still work.

 

Rather, I would recommend something like these Front panel extension cables:

 

 

If you're on a budget, you can also search for "Breadboard male female wire" or "Dupont male female". Those come in many different lengths and colours.

Ahh, never mind about the distance thing I was saying, sorry I had been up for about 18-20 hours at that point and was getting mixed up between where the USB 2 headers were on my last board and this one, I could've just looked TBH, but sleepiness can play havoc with your reasoning skills, lol... it's actually only around 10Cms from the USB 2.0 header and the I/O pins, I have the ASrock Z170 itx/ac at the moment, but might be getting myself a new B350/x370 sometime soon, depending on my mood at the time and what's available out there... unfortuantely haven't seen any m-itx/m-ATX boards from ASrock yet, so if they don't plan on doing any, will maybe have to go with a different mobo company, which would be a shame as I like ASrock the best at the moment. This is the current board I have anyway  http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Fatal1ty Z170Gaming-ITXac/

I actually have some decent cases for anything short of an e-ATX, but prefer the itx boards as long as they have enough SATA ports in case I decide to combine the new build into a NAS/main rig instead of just main, will have to think it over or play with the parts I have at hand to see if it's feasible for the space I have in mind. OK, I'm off to check whether my PSU in the test rig took any other components with it when it commited hara-kiri

 

[iFreilicht]

1 hour ago, paddy-stone said:

ASrock Z170 itx/ac

Thanks! The final distance from the connectors to the point where the cable splits isn't fixed yet, so this can be taken into account.

[rjfaber91]

3 hours ago, paddy-stone said:

I would recommend freeNAS

I've heard a lot of good things about that, yes, so I reckon I'll give it a try once I get around to that project.

 

3 hours ago, paddy-stone said:

Looking forward to seeing your Ryzen rig completed by the way, I'm now deciding whether to sell my newly built i7 6700K rig and build a Ryzen rig myself.. or just sell the CPU/mobo and get Ryzen CPU/mobo - will probably go with the latter as it's easier. I also have my old test rig to sell parts of too, now that the PSU blew up anyway, lol. I also have my old-old CPU which I just happen to have the 1055t x6 same as you, I know I won't get much for it, but seeing as it was my test rig for the last 3 -5 years, and then got put in the attic when I built my newest rig and the i5 4670K build became my test rig... yes it's a big jumble all the parts I have as "spares" that should really be sold at this point, lol.

Thanks; I'm looking forward to seeing it finished as well.  I actually installed the new motherboard, CPU and RAM today, and while it took a few reboots to get Windows to be happy with the new setup and not randomly deactivate graphics drivers and the like (yes, I know, most people reinstall Windows when switching base platforms), and I'm still busy trying to get the audio to work on my board, I am very happy with how it turned out. I'll be writing an update for my build log later today, but it won't be very elaborate; after all I'm only installing some components, and not getting around to the custom parts yet.

 

By the way, how the hell did you manage to blow up a PSU? My last two PSUs have been from very reputable brands (Antec and Corsair, since you ask), but even when I was buying incredibly cheap and shitty power supplies, I've never had one blow up on me...

[paddy-stone]

51 minutes ago, rjfaber91 said:

I've heard a lot of good things about that, yes, so I reckon I'll give it a try once I get around to that project.

 

Thanks; I'm looking forward to seeing it finished as well.  I actually installed the new motherboard, CPU and RAM today, and while it took a few reboots to get Windows to be happy with the new setup and not randomly deactivate graphics drivers and the like (yes, I know, most people reinstall Windows when switching base platforms), and I'm still busy trying to get the audio to work on my board, I am very happy with how it turned out. I'll be writing an update for my build log later today, but it won't be very elaborate; after all I'm only installing some components, and not getting around to the custom parts yet.

 

By the way, how the hell did you manage to blow up a PSU? My last two PSUs have been from very reputable brands (Antec and Corsair, since you ask), but even when I was buying incredibly cheap and shitty power supplies, I've never had one blow up on me...

Yeah, it's dealers choice when it comes to re-installing windows TBH.. I've sometimes used a backup image to install windows to a new hardware setup, but mostly for testing certain things or to re-image to another drive when an SSD/HDD failed etc. With re-using an image on new hardware, sometimes it's OK to be fair and it works very well, other times it definitely needs the re-install because of so many driver issues and the like make it easier in the long run to just re-install windows. I still have windows on a few of my PCs, but on my main rig now I am running Ubuntu as the main OS, just get so annoyed with certain windows elements lately, so decided to give linux another bash... and it is rock solid, most of the windows apps I miss I actually just run in a VM instead and it's perfectly useable.

 

Well for the PSU, it wasn't so much that "I got it to blow up" rather than, it just blew up, lol... It was a bequiet l8 730W PSU, and have had trouble with it since it was about a year to 18 months old... only trouble was I couldn't say for sure that it "was" the problem. Kept getting BSODs that usually relate to driver/ram/psu issues with what is now my test rig, but was my main one with an i5 4670K. And it was an intermittent problem, so after a BSOD you'd do all the usual to see what the problem is, and chnage a setting, replace some hardware or whatever and the problem didn't appear again, so problem fixed? nope, anywhere from 1 day to 2 months later the problem would appear again etc etc. One of those really annoying problems you know... anyway in the end I built my new rig as I was tired of those problems and needed an update anyway. So became my test rig, used it loads and freed up my main rig then for other stuff to run... anyway, everythign was fine and then yesterday I go and turn it on and .. BANG! plastic burning smell and tripped the circuit breaker... so I'm guessing it was the PSU after all, lol.. I had replaced loads of things in that PC like RAM/SSD, I had also tried the PSU in another PC and OC'd the guts out of it and PSU held steady. Anyway, so I;m guessing it might have had a bad capacitor in it or something. I'm not too fussed really, it was only my test rig, but I haven't had the time/energy to test the parts out to see if they got damaged also, hope not, but if they have I'll have to get the insurers out to have a look at the PSU etc maybe. It's never been altered or anything done to it, I am very careful with my components and don't abuse/misuse them or anything, so was a faulty PSU after all anyway.... it was a long horrible problem, the worst I have ever had on my or on customers/friends etc PCs that I've built myself or that have just been brought to me to fix.

 

Sorry about ^^. TLDR: faulty PSU after many months to a few years trying to work out what the intermittent problem was. Trouble is I was convinced it was the mobo didn't like the OC I had on the CPU, faulty power phase type problem, but when testing soemtimes worked fine, other times BSOD. I hate problems like this, most of the time I can change parts out to get to the problem, but this was the only 4th gen CPU I had and board too... most of my customers wanted 5th/6th gen CPUs and boards or AMD, so couldn't even use them if I wanted to, plus with the problem being intermittent it could have behaved itself for months without problems, and then BSOD again. I kinda wished I had just gotten another PSU to test with and left it like that now, but in the end it worked out really as it gave me an excuse to build another rig, swapped my M.2 drive into the new one... haven't had one problem with this build that couldn't be fixed very easily. I kept most of my data on my NAS anyway, so didn't have to do anything there, and I even wiped my old windows image backups off there too, I won't be going back to windows for my main rig OS ever. I keep windows on my laptop though as that's the one I take to clients houses when I work there, and now I will have to use it for connecting to android phone for  flashing... might have a little setup to do there, but don't do it that often these days

 

[paddy-stone]

I apologise for the WALL of text above... it was a difficult problem to try and explain

 

[Jan Bala]

This power button is awesome!!!