Apple "Hello again" Live Stream

[iTzPrime]

I think they are pretty awesome. As a software developer who mainly uses a Macbook Pro, i will definitly switch to the new one. However i would have liked an included HDMI adapter, and sd card slot (come on, that one is pretty small) and one USB3.0 port just for portability. 

Other than that it looks like a great product. So happy they didnt go with touchscreen, dont want my screen to be all smudgy. 

People saying the price is too high. Well anything comparable in the windows department is pretty much the same price.

If you dont want to buy an MBP or any Apple product don't do it. If enough people are pissed of apple, they will change their policy, but to be honest, they seem to get better every generation ( except that fucking missing headphone jack...)

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, iTzPrime said:

I think they are pretty awesome. As a software developer who mainly uses a Macbook Pro, i will definitly switch to the new one. However i would have liked an included HDMI adapter, and sd card slot (come on, that one is pretty small) and one USB3.0 port just for portability. 

Other than that it looks like a great product. So happy they didnt go with touchscreen, dont want my screen to be all smudgy. 

People saying the price is too high. Well anything comparable in the windows department is pretty much the same price.

If you dont want to buy an MBP or any Apple product don't do it. If enough people are pissed of apple, they will change their policy, but to be honest, they seem to get better every generation ( except that fucking missing headphone jack...)

It's a bit too high. Comparable laptops (and the previous macs) were about $400 cheaper. Now they're a definitely over. If I was in the market for a new laptop, I would still pay the premium since I vastly prefer OS X/Mac's build quality, but the new Macs are a bit overpriced. 

 

The 13" retina launched at the same price ($1300 for 4gb+128gb ssd, $1500~ for 8gb/256gb ssd). Now, no one else has a touch bar, but still...I don't see it being worth as much as Apple is asking for. Now the new 13" retina is $1800 (so $300 more than the comparably spec'd mac was in 2013 and $500 more than the comparably spec'd mac in 2016).

 

The 15" retina launched at $2000 (8gb/256gb), and recently ended up being 16gb/256(or 512)gb for $2000. The dGPU variant was $2400 iirc though, so the 15" isn't too bad, but again, an iGPU only model for $2000~ would be a nice option.

[SCHISCHKA]

i like the new MacBook pro. base model is the similar price as what i paid for my i7 MacBook air earlier this year but it has a better screen. real shame they did not update the MacBook air line but i guess the MacBook is the replacement for the air

[Magnetorheological]

Oh man, they put the butterfly switches into the MBP...sure they say it's supposed to be "2.0", but I do hope they feel better to type on than the MacBook. It's also starting to get irritating that every time they say it's XX millimeters thinner than the last. They were thin enough before as it is. Why not fill the space out with more battery? 

[GoodBytes]

58 minutes ago, Qwerty2323 said:

Pirce is still cheap if you compare them with high end windows laptops

If we compare the new MacBook Pro 13 low end model (meaning only 2 USB type-C plug instead of 4, and no touch bar), the latest Dell XPS 13 highest end, with 4K display, touch screen, and 7th gen Intel CPU over MacBook's 6th gen Intel CPU, it is cheaper. Thickness is the same, the XPS is lighter. XPS claim battery life is higher than Apples ones in provided tasks. Plus the XPS has USB type-C thunderbolt, as well as USB type-A, and SD card reader.

[79wjd]

19 minutes ago, Magnetorheological said:

Oh man, they put the butterfly switches into the MBP...sure they say it's supposed to be "2.0", but I do hope they feel better to type on than the MacBook. It's also starting to get irritating that every time they say it's XX millimeters thinner than the last. They were thin enough before as it is. Why not fill the space out with more battery? 

There are plenty of people who still wanted something lighter, so I can understand why they made it lighter/thinner. I am curious to know what people think about butterfly switches in the long run (i.e. after using them for months). I, and most people who complain about them, only used them for a short period of time. 

 

Still, the keyboard is my biggest concern with the new Macs. 

[Magnetorheological]

17 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

There are plenty of people who still wanted something lighter, so I can understand why they made it lighter/thinner. I am curious to know what people think about butterfly switches in the long run (i.e. after using them for months). I, and most people who complain about them, only used them for a short period of time. 

 

Still, the keyboard is my biggest concern with the new Macs. 

Yeah, I have a friend who uses it, and he says that it's still pretty terrible long term. He said that while you do get used to it after a while, it's still akin to typing on a tablet which is not comfortable at all, especially when you need to do a lot of work on them. Then again, that's just one guy's opinion haha 

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, Magnetorheological said:

Yeah, I have a friend who uses it, and he says that it's still pretty terrible long term. He said that while you do get used to it after a while, it's still akin to typing on a tablet which is not comfortable at all, especially when you need to do a lot of work on them. Then again, that's just one guy's opinion haha 

Unfortunately, I'd be surprised if it turned out to be an amazing keyboard after you get used to it. I just really hope gen 2 is better. While I don't plan on getting a new Mac since mine is just as good for my needs, I will need a new one within a 3-5 years (and there's always the possibility my mom will decide she wants a Mac, in which case there's a good chance I'll give her mine and I'll get a new one sooner). 

 

I won't completely write butterfly 2 switches off until I hear some reviews, but I'm not optimistic. 

[Magnetorheological]

4 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Unfortunately, I'd be surprised if it turned out to be an amazing keyboard after you get used to it. I just really hope gen 2 is better. While I don't plan on getting a new Mac since mine is just as good for my needs, I will need a new one within a 3-5 years (and there's always the possibility my mom will decide she wants a Mac, in which case there's a good chance I'll give her mine and I'll get a new one sooner). 

 

I won't completely write butterfly 2 switches off until I hear some reviews, but I'm not optimistic. 

Yeah, I didn't like how flush the keyboard looked with the casing, so I'm not getting my hopes up that it'll be any better than the MacBook keyboard. Oh well, I don't necessarily need to upgrade to a new laptop for a while either.

[Nowak]

I think Apple and a lot of their defenders here have forgotten what "progress" means.

 

Progress is something that's gradual. You don't just suddenly take away something like USB-A, VGA or the SD card slot because something supposedly better came out. Why do you think it took so long for VGA ports to die out on laptops? Because people still used them, although people were also slowly replacing VGA devices with DVI, DisplayPort and HDMI devices. When there were more DVI, DisplayPort and HDMI devices than VGA devices, it made sense to remove the VGA port.

 

But USB-A? FN keys? The escape key? SD card slots? People still use those, very frequently. Just ask photographers, gamers, VIM users, even regular people. Now they have to spend $50 - $100, maybe more, in adapters, on top of the $3000 they're already spending on the MacBook Pro, just to maintain compatibility with applications that use the FN keys or escape key, or their USB-A devices. Then, they gotta figure out how to tote around all those adapters along with their laptop and the rest of whatever they carry. It makes no sense to suddenly break compatibility without needing adapters because a supposedly better standard is out when that supposedly better standard is just barely taking off on smartphones.

 

It's all fun and games until you have to carry around a bag of adapters. Oh, and until the Touch Bar on your MBP breaks, in which case you'll need to send the entire laptop in, even if everything else works fine. You see what's wrong with this picture? Because I do.

[GoodBytes]

15 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Unfortunately, I'd be surprised if it turned out to be an amazing keyboard after you get used to it. I just really hope gen 2 is better. While I don't plan on getting a new Mac since mine is just as good for my needs, I will need a new one within a 3-5 years (and there's always the possibility my mom will decide she wants a Mac, in which case there's a good chance I'll give her mine and I'll get a new one sooner). 

 

I won't completely write butterfly 2 switches off until I hear some reviews, but I'm not optimistic. 

Ars got hands on, this is what they say:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/hands-on-with-the-new-macbook-pros-their-keyboard-and-the-touch-bar/

 

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, Daring said:

But USB-A? FN keys? The escape key? SD card slots? People still use those, very frequently. Just ask photographers, gamers, VIM users, even regular people. Now they have to spend $50 - $100, maybe more, in adapters, on top of the $3000 they're already spending on the MacBook Pro, just to maintain compatibility with applications that use the FN keys or escape key, or their USB-A devices. Then, they gotta figure out how to tote around all those adapters along with their laptop and the rest of whatever they carry. It makes no sense to suddenly break compatibility without needing adapters because a supposedly better standard is out when that supposedly better standard is just barely taking off on smartphones.

 

It's all fun and games until you have to carry around a bag of adapters. Oh, and until the Touch Bar on your MBP breaks, in which case you'll need to send the entire laptop in, even if everything else works fine. You see what's wrong with this picture? Because I do.

Do you want to be spending another five years worth of money on USB-A devices because no one is pushing the USB-C industry forward? I certainly don't. No matter what there will be a painful transitional period. The sooner the better. The SD card slot is annoying, although I suspect most people don't use it (professionals often use a wide range of cards -- so they need an adapter regardless, plus likely don't want to sit there and transfer at USB 2.0 speeds). The OLED bar will still function has the function keys.

 

The ESC key is still there on the OLED bar and it can be remapped to a physical key in Sierra. 

 

You do realize we've been adding complexity to devices for decades....right? Complexity which simply means that if anything goes wrong you'll have to "send it in" to get fixed. That's just the nature of technology. SoCs are combining everything into a single chip, technology is becoming more complex by its very nature. 

 

4 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Ars got hands on, this is what they say:

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2016/10/hands-on-with-the-new-macbook-pros-their-keyboard-and-the-touch-bar/

 

That's mostly good news I'd say. Although only time will tell how it compares for the average user in the long run. 

[Belgarathian]

My take on the update: 

 

• Love the touch ID and T1 processor
• Love the touch bar 
• Love the 4x USB 3.1 Type-C with Thunderbolt
• Thanks for keeping the 3.5mm headphone/mic jack
• New display 

 

Overall conclusion: underwhelming, but a well overdue update to the line. Price increases too by the looks of things (at least in NZ).

Edited October 27, 2016 by Belgarathian

[Nowak]

3 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Do you want to be spending another five years worth of money on USB-A devices because no one is pushing the USB-C industry forward? I certainly don't. No matter what there will be a painful transitional period. The sooner the better. The SD card slot is annoying, although I suspect most people don't use it (professionals often use a wide range of cards -- so they need an adapter regardless, plus likely don't want to sit there and transfer at USB 2.0 speeds). The OLED bar will still function has the function keys.

We are in a transitional period, yes. But Apple seems to have forgotten that and wants to force it. That isn't how you progress.

 

4 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The ESC key is still there on the OLED bar and it can be remapped to a physical key in Sierra. 

That'll fuck with muscle memory, don't ya think? Everyone expects the Esc key to be the, well, escape key. That's how it's been since half a decade ago.

 

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

You do realize we've been adding complexity to devices for decades....right? Complexity which simply means that if anything goes wrong you'll have to "send it in" to get fixed. That's just the nature of technology. SoCs are combining everything into a single chip, technology is becoming more complex by its very nature.

Yes, I was around when computers didn't have everything soldered down. It's also true that technology is becoming more complex, but at the same time... it's becoming less complicated, if that makes sense. 20 years ago, back when I was a little kid, it was much harder to build a PC than it is today. Now the process can be described as "adult legos".

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, Belgarathian said:

My take on the update: 

 

• Love the touch ID and T1 processor
• Love the touch bar 
• Love the 4x USB 3.1 Type-C with Thunderbolt
• Thanks for keeping the 3.5mm headphone/mic jack
• New display 

 

Overall conclusion: underwhelming, but a well overdue update to the line. Price increases too by the looks of things (at least in NZ).

Prices are up for the 13" model and about the same for the 15" model (based on USD). 

 

Old: 

• 13" Broadwell rMBP: 8gb/128gb - $1300
• 13" Broadwell rMBP: 8gb/256gb - $1400/$1500 (I don't recall which)
• 15" Haswell rMBP (iGPU only): 16gb/256gb - $2000
• 15" Haswell rMBP: 16gb/512gb/370x - $2500

New: 

• 13" non-OLED rMBP: 8gb/256gb - $1500 
• 13" OLED rMBP: 8gb/256gb - $1800
• 15" OLED rMBP: 16gb/256gb/Pro 450 - $2400 ($2600 for 512gb)

 

So the 15" pricing is $100 more expensive (albeit without the iGPU only model -- which sucks imo, since that's the one I would buy), while the 13" variant saw a pretty big price jump from the OLED Bar/touch ID.

[79wjd]

7 minutes ago, Daring said:

We are in a transitional period, yes. But Apple seems to have forgotten that and wants to force it. That isn't how you progress.

 

That'll fuck with muscle memory, don't ya think? Everyone expects the Esc key to be the, well, escape key. That's how it's been since half a decade ago.

 

Yes, I was around when computers didn't have everything soldered down. It's also true that technology is becoming more complex, but at the same time... it's becoming less complicated, if that makes sense. 20 years ago, back when I was a little kid, it was much harder to build a PC than it is today. Now the process can be described as "adult legos".

Actually it's how you get very quick progress. Apple is very good at forcing standards forward. So I'm okay with this since it means that the transitional period will be rushed along and thus more painful upfront but less painful in the long run. 

 

Place it on the OLED bar in the normal spot and have it remapped to a physical key for an emergency. Plus the whole purpose of the OLED bar is to basically reposition useful functionality -- so you're going to have to get used to new positions anyway. 

 

It's simpler to build desktops where everything has become very standardized. That doesn't translate to any of the mobile sectors where everything is becoming more complex (are simpler in the sense that you have fewer, but more complex, components). Either way, my point still stands, it's natural for there to be more points of failure as technology progresses. Look at cars. We're getting to a point where it's getting to be very difficult to do any work on your car yourself.

[Nowak]

8 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Actually it's how you get very quick progress. Apple is very good at forcing standards forward. So I'm okay with this since it means that the transitional period will be rushed along and thus more painful upfront but less painful in the long run. 

It's gonna be an awkward transitional phase, that's for sure. I just don't agree with the way how Apple is doing it.

 

8 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Place it on the OLED bar in the normal spot and have it remapped to a physical key for an emergency. Plus the whole purpose of the OLED bar is to basically reposition useful functionality -- so you're going to have to get used to new positions anyway. 

But, again, what if it breaks? Can't use the FN keys or any of the functionality the touch bar provides. Also, I'm not sure how much professionals care about having easy access emojis on their computer. I'd imagine they'd prefer a traditional FN key row.

 

8 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's simpler to build desktops where everything has become very standardized. That doesn't translate to any of the mobile sectors where everything is becoming more complex (are simpler in the sense that you have fewer, but more complex, components). Either way, my point still stands, it's natural for there to be more points of failure as technology progresses. Look at cars. We're getting to a point where it's getting to be very difficult to do any work on your car yourself.

Touché.

[79wjd]

Just now, Daring said:

It's gonna be an awkward transitional phase, that's for sure. I just don't agree with the way how Apple is doing it.

 

But, again, what if it breaks? Can't use the FN keys or any of the functionality the touch bar provides. Also, I'm not sure how much professionals care about having easy access emojis on their computer.

I'm fine with it since I think the market needs a kick in the ass to get going. How many HDDs, phones, mice, keyboards, flash drives, etc... have you seen with type-c? How many motherboards even include a single type c connector? How many include two? All of those numbers are pitifully low even though we've had type-c for a couple years now. The market needs something (or someone) to be a force to drive them to actually bother with type-c. The unfortunate truth is there is no good way to transition very important standards. 

 

What if your screen breaks? then you can't see anything. Or your ssd/ram/cpu/gpu dies? then it won't work at all. As long as there is no design problem then it's fine since it's unlikely to break. The biggest that I've actually seen point out is that it will make the LCD display look bad in comparison (which I just think is funny).

 

It serves more use cases than just emojis. You can basically put whatever you want there (as long as the developer chooses to support it).

[VerticalDiscussions]

Gotta say, those are some dope looking laptops! Both Apple and Microsoft did really great this week!

[Nowak]

7 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I'm fine with it since I think the market needs a kick in the ass to get going. How many HDDs, phones, mice, keyboards, flash drives, etc... have you seen with type-c? How many motherboards even include a single type c connector? How many include two? All of those numbers are pitifully low even though we've had type-c for a couple years now. The market needs something (or someone) to be a force to drive them to actually bother with type-c. The unfortunate truth is there is no good way to transition very important standards. 

 

What if your screen breaks? then you can't see anything. Or your ssd/ram/cpu/gpu dies? then it won't work at all. As long as there is no design problem then it's fine since it's unlikely to break. The biggest that I've actually seen point out is that it will make the LCD display look bad in comparison (which I just think is funny).

 

It serves more use cases than just emojis. You can basically put whatever you want there (as long as the developer chooses to support it).

tbh, I woulda liked it if they included a USB-A port. Even just one USB-A port would be better than having to carry around a bag of adapters. Would also help ease the transition.

[zMeul]

two thousand and four hundred US Dollars for a i7 Skylake, please do tell me more Apple .... NOT!

 

the rest of the world is already putting KabyLake CPUs into their laptops, nope .. not Apple
some one said this about Apple, and said it right: yesterday's products with tomorrow's prices

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, zMeul said:

two thousand and four hundred US Dollars for a i7 Skylake, please do tell me more Apple .... NOT!

 

the rest of the world is already putting KabyLake CPUs into their laptops, nope .. not Apple
some one said this about Apple, and said it right: yesterday's products with tomorrow's prices

There are no quad core Kaby Lake CPUs released yet, and Kaby Lake is a marginal improvement over Skylake. 

[zMeul]

6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

There are no quad core Kaby Lake CPUs released yet, and Kaby Lake is a marginal improvement over Skylake. 

oh, so there's no reason to put it in a laptop and use DDR4 instead of DDR3?! please do tell ... 

better iGPU, fuck that too .. right?

 

for the 1st time I feel that Apple is actually playing catch-up 

 

Quote

released

because I can get a 2016 MacBook PRO right now?! 

only the 13" mode is shipping right now, the rest ... might go the way for the AirPods with the way they're priced

[79wjd]

8 minutes ago, zMeul said:

oh, so there's no reason to put it in a laptop and use DDR4 instead of DDR3?! please do tell ... 

better iGPU, fuck that too .. right?

 

for the 1st time I feel that Apple is actually playing catch-up 

Oh yes, my workflow would be ten times faster with DDR4 running at 2133mhz rather than LPDDR3 running at 1866/2133mhz. And had Apple gone with Kaby Lake then the iGPU would actually be worse! An HD 620 is significantly slower than an HD540/550.

[rattacko123]

Still waiting for iMac...