Apple "Hello again" Live Stream

[Red Hardware]

Just now, Daring said:

And also pushing us back. Remember when laptops had keyboards that were actually comfortable to type on, and phones weren't so thin they compromised structural integrity just to make them thinner?

Making phones thinner is not the same thing . Moving to USB C is something great . It will make every thing easy IF they didn't go that suddenly and at least , they could've included the adapters .

[Techicolors]

quite interesting that they included a headphone jack for the 2016 macbooks. guess they're only gonna remove it for their iPhones? i understand that macbooks also include professional work, so that kinda requires a jack (and i imagine it will be awkward for that DJ presenter lol), but seeing Apple claimed that the jack is archaic, sounds counter intuitive in their part 

[Nowak]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

Like I said in my initial post, I'm withholding judgement on Butterfly gen 2 switches in hopes that they're significantly improved. 

 

If phones weren't made thinner phablets wouldn't work. So, definitely not pushing us back. Plus, it's not only Apple that wants thinner devices. People as a whole want thinner devices.

Really? Everyone I've seen wants thicker devices, for better battery life and so they don't break when you look at them wrong.

 

There's a difference between "actually being useful" and "it's pretty". Sure, the Touch Bar looks cool, but how useful is it? If the ThinkPad X1 Carbon 2nd gen is anything to go by, it's not gonna be very useful. And then what happens when it breaks? Gotta send in the entire laptop, even if everything else works just fine. Fuck, that.

[79wjd]

Just now, Daring said:

Really? Everyone I've seen wants thicker devices, for better battery life and so they don't break when you look at them wrong.

 

There's a difference between "actually being useful" and "it's pretty". Sure, the Touch Bar looks cool, but how useful is it? If the ThinkPad X1 Carbon 2nd gen is anything to go by, it's not gonna be very useful. And then what happens when it breaks? Gotta send in the entire laptop, even if everything else works just fine. Fuck, that.

Do better market research. There is a reason why literally every device manufacturer is trending towards thinner phones. It's what the average consumer wants. It is perceived as being more futuristic/superior. Watch basically any science fiction movie/show and again, you'll see the exact same thing. 

 

True power users want a thicker phone, but not the average consumer. And frankly, I don't really want a thicker phone -- a 5.5" phone would become completely unwieldily if it wasn't thin.

 

I personally don't expect to use the touch bar much, but I can see it being useful for some, and I certainly see at as an improvement over normal function keys. The different between Apple and the X1 is that Apple has complete control over the software and they're likely to push it successfully. 

[ShadowCaptain]

16 minutes ago, Daring said:

USB storage, my Logitech M510 travel mouse, my phone, USB DVD drives (if I need it), Steam Controller dongle (or USB cable), basically everything.

 

I'll just stick to my actually professional, not gimmicky laptop with actual expansion and maximum repairability, thanks Apple ^^

sure but it would barely cost more to get a new USB C storage device, a bluetooth mouse, sync phone over wifi, and use a wireless controller

 

Heck im not tying to say its the ultimate laptop for everyone just that i dont think the USB thing is that big an issue and its NOT an issue for myself - plus while I sit here talking about apple its not like I only use apple products or anything

[Sniperfox47]

Why does this new MacBook Pro not have a PS/2 port for my keyboard/mouse. Totally broke my workflow. And where's the S-Video and VGA ports for my TV? All of that stuff is stuff that compatibility has been broken on.

 

USB-C and USB-A are driver compatible and the ends are electrically compatible. You could just chop of the A end of your cable and slot in a C end (with the appropriate transistor) and it would work the same as using an adapter.

 

USB-C ports are compatible with USB-A accessories. They're not breaking compatibility in any way. There's no translation in between. It's no different from DVI-I replacing VGA. DVI-I is compatible with VGA the same way as USB-C is compatible with USB-A.

[GoodBytes]

So, iPhone users will be delighted to see that they won't be able to plug their phone on their new MacBook Pro to manage their content with iTunes.

Good think Apple sells an adapter for this.

 

 

 

[Red Hardware]

4 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Like I said in my initial post, I'm withholding judgement on Butterfly gen 2 switches in hopes that they're significantly improved. 

 

If phones weren't made thinner phablets wouldn't work. So, definitely not pushing us back. Plus, it's not only Apple that wants thinner devices. People as a whole want thinner devices.

 

More recently they did it with the DVD drive, and look how that turned out. 

First I want a thicker device for better battery life.

And about the DVDs : They had storage & speed limitations but again its not the same thing with USB . I really like the law thing because in this case , apple is not enough but I will thank apple if their action make transition faster (although , i don't use apple products ) 

[Nowak]

9 minutes ago, ShadowCaptain said:

sure but it would barely cost more to get a new USB C storage device, a bluetooth mouse, sync phone over wifi, and use a wireless controller

 

Heck im not tying to say its the ultimate laptop for everyone just that i dont think the USB thing is that big an issue and its NOT an issue for myself - plus while I sit here talking about apple its not like I only use apple products or anything

1. The Steam Controller works wirelessly. There is no USB-C adapter for it. I would need an adapter.
2. Bluetooth is a highly insecure protocol. Anyone with enough technical know-how could intercept my Bluetooth traffic and manipulate my mouse or computer. No thanks.
3. I already have enough flash drives. I have a bag full of them. Then there's my college, which distributes USB-A hard drives to transfer files such as .iso images or virtual machines. I would need an adapter to use those. I'd also need an adapter to access my schoolwork, which is on one of my USB flash drives.
4. WiFi is extremely slow in my room. Like, over WiFi I only get 3 - 4Mbps tops. I could wait 5 hours to sync my phone over WiFi, or I could wait 5 minutes to do it over USB. Which do you think I'd want to do? Oh, but to sync over USB I'd need an adapter.
5. I can have two storage devices in my T420. In fact, I do have two storage devices in my T420, a 512GB SSD in the regular HDD bay and a 320GB mechanical drive in the UltraBay. Can't do that on Apple, can I?

[Blade of Grass]

1 hour ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

Apple's own effing iPhone can't connect to the damn MacBook Pros now.

What are you on about? USB C -> Lightning cables exist from Apple

11 minutes ago, Daring said:

Really? Everyone I've seen wants thicker devices, for better battery life and so they don't break when you look at them wrong.

 

There's a difference between "actually being useful" and "it's pretty". Sure, the Touch Bar looks cool, but how useful is it? If the ThinkPad X1 Carbon 2nd gen is anything to go by, it's not gonna be very useful. And then what happens when it breaks? Gotta send in the entire laptop, even if everything else works just fine. Fuck, that.

Everyone being vocal people on tech forums? Pretty niche market

 

Think about it this way, Lenovo has no control over the OS running on the computer to integrate it, nor do they have pursaisve power with the big apps that run on Windows.... Apple has both, and they already have Adobe on board. 

[AlexGoesHigh]

[79wjd]

7 minutes ago, Red Hardware said:

First I want a thicker device for better battery life.

And about the DVDs : They had storage & speed limitations but again its not the same thing with USB . I really like the law thing because in this case , apple is not enough but I will thank apple if their action make transition faster (although , i don't use apple products ) 

What YOU want doesn't matter. What matters is what MOST people want. And most people want thinner. 

 

Except that wasn't the reason apple stopped using them -- if it was they would've replaced it with a bluray drive. 

 

[Sniperfox47]

26 minutes ago, Red Hardware said:

They did this with floppy disks  ( I'm really happy that i was a kid at those days because i hate floppy ) . But people left floppy because of storage and speed limitations but its not the same with USB , we don't have a serious speed limitation going on with USB A , so i don't look forward to it.

USB-C is not about speed in any way. The transfer interface, and thus speed, are the same as USB-A/B it's about features. And unlike an upgrade for speed, a feature upgrade is a catch 22. If nobody is buying the accessories there's no reason to make them. If you don't make them than users can't experience the features and convenience. If users don't experience it they won't buy it because they won't feel it's any different that what already works for them. It takes someone to take initiative and force a feature upgrade to actually get it done.

 

What features does USB-C have? Analogue transfer, alternate modes, bidirectional power, reversible cables, increase port durability, increased plug durability, better certification standards (now that the certification process is actually implemented), higher rated power max, host negotiation, and much more.

 

Are any of these things so compelling to device manufacturers that they'd make a niche device specifically for it? I doubt it. Power would be nice for high performance portable hard driv-... oh wait... Pretty much all of this stuff is stuff that's handy features for consumers but there's no incentive for mouse and headset and speaker makers to make their devices for it unless it's a port that's on a vast majority of their users devices and device makers aren't going to stick it on their devices unless there's accessories that use it.

 

I don't like Apple but I appreciate them doing this. I appreciate that Google also jumped on board right away. I seriously wish Microsoft would have played Ball, but...

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, Blade of Grass said:

What are you on about? USB C -> Lightning cables exist from Apple

Everyone being vocal people on tech forums? Pretty niche market

 

Think about it this way, Lenovo has no control over the OS running on the computer to integrate it, nor do they have pursaisve power with the big apps that run on Windows.... Apple has both, and they already have Adobe on board. 

The iPhone comes with a usb-a to lightning though. 

[Sniperfox47]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The iPhone comes with a usb-a to lightning though. 

I bet the iPhone 7s will come with both, and then I wouldn't be surprised if the iPhone 8 only has lightning to type-C

[Red Hardware]

11 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

USB-C is not about speed in any way. The transfer interface, and thus speed, are the same as USB-A/B it's about features. And unlike an upgrade for speed, a feature upgrade is a catch 22. If nobody is buying the accessories there's no reason to make them. If you don't make them than users can't experience the features and convenience. If users don't experience it they won't buy it because they won't feel it's any different that what already works for them. It takes someone to take initiative and force a feature upgrade to actually get it done.

 

What features does USB-C have? Analogue transfer, alternate modes, bidirectional power, reversible cables, increase port durability, increased plug durability, better certification standards (now that the certification process is actually implemented), higher rated power max, host negotiation, and much more.

 

Are any of these things so compelling to device manufacturers that they'd make a niche device specifically for it? I doubt it. Power would be nice for high performance portable hard driv-... oh wait... Pretty much all of this stuff is stuff that's hands features for consumers but that there's no incentive for mouse and headset and speaker makers to make their devices for it unless it's a port that's on a vast majority of their users devices and device makers aren't going to stick it on their devices unless there's accessories that use it.

 

I don't like Apple but I appreciate them doing this. I appreciate that Google also jumped on board right away. I seriously wish Microsoft would have played Ball, but...

I agree 

[thexzenon]

The thing that is fucked up about this is that they priced it way too high for the available ports. Yes, you can plug in two monitors, with power, with a RAID array and then add a dock for however many USB Type-A ports you want, but all those things cost extra money. Let's say I want the cheapest new MacBook Pro, how much will I have to pay? $300 extra just for the laptop, another 70 bucks for an HDMI+USB Type-A adapter and if I have a UHD monitor then I'll have to get another $70 adapter (TB3-TB2, not even sold on Apple's site) so that's just under $450 US. I wonder how many people will switch from an Air to this.

[The Benjamins]

14 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

USB-C is not about speed in any way. The transfer interface, and thus speed, are the same as USB-A/B it's about features. And unlike an upgrade for speed, a feature upgrade is a catch 22. If nobody is buying the accessories there's no reason to make them. If you don't make them than users can't experience the features and convenience. If users don't experience it they won't buy it because they won't feel it's any different that what already works for them. It takes someone to take initiative and force a feature upgrade to actually get it done.

 

What features does USB-C have? Analogue transfer, alternate modes, bidirectional power, reversible cables, increase port durability, increased plug durability, better certification standards (now that the certification process is actually implemented), higher rated power max, host negotiation, and much more.

 

Are any of these things so compelling to device manufacturers that they'd make a niche device specifically for it? I doubt it. Power would be nice for high performance portable hard driv-... oh wait... Pretty much all of this stuff is stuff that's handy features for consumers but there's no incentive for mouse and headset and speaker makers to make their devices for it unless it's a port that's on a vast majority of their users devices and device makers aren't going to stick it on their devices unless there's accessories that use it.

 

I don't like Apple but I appreciate them doing this. I appreciate that Google also jumped on board right away. I seriously wish Microsoft would have played Ball, but...

exactly, and one big feature with USB C is that it supports Display port too. and better yet this MBP is Thunderbolt 3 so it has even more speed and features. With the idea of apples intended use case this mac pro is perfect port wise.

[thexzenon]

12 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

I bet the iPhone 7s will come with both, and then I wouldn't be surprised if the iPhone 8 only has lightning to type-C

WE HAVE THE SOLUTION GUYS, DON'T BUY THE NEW MBP TILL THE 7S IS RELEASED!

[CoffeeBlack]

1 hour ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Or just use a micro to type-C cable for your mouse instead of the provided micro to type-C cable... And buy a type-C flash drive... I don't understand the issue people have with type-C... You don't even need a dongle for video cables, you can buy cables that have the DisplayPort to whatever protocol converter built in...

A massive majority of wired mice do not have detachable cables. Also, most of the ones that do, don't have standard micro-usb ports.

 

I don't really care that they're all type c, but people will need to buy and use dongles, adapters etc.

[Misanthrope]

38 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Do better market research.

Market research shows that whoever is the richest motherfucker wins, and nobody puts a dent on Apple or Samsung in the level of advertising they maintain.

 

So it has nothing to do with what the people want but with what the people know about. That's why Apple is so successful in pushing things like no headphones, one port, etc. Because most people would go "Oh I want a phone, this nice one from the commercial also comes in pink and gold!" and buy that. There's no deep questions about battery life, ports, processor, etc. It's just whatever they've seen advertised.

[razor767]

Just checked UK prices.

 

13-inch pro starts at £1449 and 15-inch pro starts at £1949. 

 

No thanks.

[Qwerty2323]

People should accept it Apple is not charity and their products are for rich people. And that is what makes Apple products so good they do not use crap cheap hardware that makes their software slow, instead always have hand picked hardware which works.

 

What about crap of plugging in iphone, just use cloud, wireless or bluetooth.

 

Pirce is still cheap if you compare them with high end windows laptops.

 

Only disapointment is lack of inovation, if you call emoji touchpad even inovation...

[79wjd]

19 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Market research shows that whoever is the richest motherfucker wins, and nobody puts a dent on Apple or Samsung in the level of advertising they maintain.

 

So it has nothing to do with what the people want but with what the people know about. That's why Apple is so successful in pushing things like no headphones, one port, etc. Because most people would go "Oh I want a phone, this nice one from the commercial also comes in pink and gold!" and buy that. There's no deep questions about battery life, ports, processor, etc. It's just whatever they've seen advertised.

Good marketing will only do so much. A bad product with amazing marketing won't sell well more than once. 

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, djdwosk97 said:

Good marketing will only do so much. A bad product with amazing marketing won't sell well more than once. 

I mean sure, provided your phone doesn't fucking explodes and injures people and gets banned from all air travel. So sad to think none of that was hyperbole.