Microsoft reports very little fragmentation of Windows 10 - Over 75% of users on the latest version.

[Sakkura]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

That's sort of like saying, if rapists didn't force people into unwanted sex, people would have their say over their own body... and that's the behaviour that rapists are trying to eradicate.

 

 

Those Windows installations are those people's own personal space, and property, for them to have say over. When Microsoft forces updates on people, Microsoft is stealing those people's rightful say over their own property and space. This is Microsoft being immoral.

 

Not to mention that Microsoft's update quality completely sucks nowadays, and so there's very good reason why people would want to avoid new Microsoft updates:

The updates are usually beneficial. So saying forcing them on people is immoral is like saying forcing medical treatment on people is immoral. Which I disagree with, when people don't know any better.

[Delicieuxz]

2 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

The updates are usually beneficial. So saying forcing them on people is immoral is like saying forcing medical treatment on people is immoral. Which I disagree with, when people don't know any better.

Forcing medical treatment on people is immoral, and is also illegal in many places.

 

It's easy to rationalize doing what is wrong when you determine from the outset that when they choose to do what you don't want them to do, it's because they don't know any better.

 

When people wanted to stay on Windows 7, but had Windows 10 forced on their PCs, they knew better, but Microsoft didn't like their having a say over their own property and space.

[Sakkura]

Just now, Delicieuxz said:

Forcing medical treatment on people is immoral, and is also illegal in many places.

No. Forcing medical treatment on people who don't know any better is normal and morally justified, and legally required of doctors in civilized countries.

[Delicieuxz]

2 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

No. Forcing medical treatment on people who don't know any better is normal and morally justified, and legally required of doctors in civilized countries.

No, it is illegal to force medical treatment upon a person in most USA states, and parts of Canada.

[Sakkura]

Just now, Delicieuxz said:

No, it is illegal to force medical treatment upon a person in most states, and parts of Canada.

Not when they don't know any better.

[Delicieuxz]

1 minute ago, Sakkura said:

Not when they don't know any better.

There is nobody to say that they a person doesn't know any better.

[Sakkura]

Just now, Delicieuxz said:

There is nobody to say that they a person doesn't know any better.

Sure there is. It's a well established fact that many people are tech illiterate and fail to properly update and maintain their computers.

 

Just like babies and toddlers often fail to take their vaccinations voluntarily.

[samcool55]

Tbh i'm really suprised almost 25% managed to avoid the absolute brutal way they force updates.

I guess it all depends how you look at it.

Also, this is after 1 year, think about it in a few years, it's going to be a big mess very quickly if it keeps fragmenting at this rate.

Maybe for now it's all fine, but W10 is just over 1 year and already 25% is falling behind.

 

Yes i'm looking at it from a negative angle, it's not because microsoft looks positively at it i have to look at it the same way

[Delicieuxz]

11 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Sure there is. It's a well established fact that many people are tech illiterate and fail to properly update and maintain their computers.

 

Just like babies and toddlers often fail to take their vaccinations voluntarily.

Yeah, people with their tech are not comparable to legal minors, nor is the health of their PC systems comparable to the health of their bodies.

 

People know what they want for their technology devices, and it is their right to choose to have what they want with their PC systems. After all, they are the owners of their devices, and of the licensed instances of software that is installed on them. You can't tell an owner of their property that you know better regarding their own property, and so take over control of their property. Otherwise, someone could say you don't know better about how your car should be used, and so hijack your car.

 

At the centre of this debate is the recognition that, ultimately, people really do not want Windows 10 and its updates, and Microsoft acknowledges that by coming up with abuse rationalizations to disregard the fact that people don't want their software, and are looking for excuses to force it upon people. That's no different than a thief or a rapist.

 

And with the state of modern Microsoft QA, updating Windows is generally many times more unsafe than leaving Windows not-updated, as I showed in the list of Windows 10 issues above:

Quote

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/08/kindle-crashes-and-broken-powershell-something-isnt-right-with-windows-10-testing/

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3107306/microsoft-windows/microsoft-admits-to-distributing-windows-printing-bugs-in-kb-3177725-and-kb-3176493.html

https://redmondmag.com/articles/2016/06/16/june-patch-breaks-group-policy-settings.aspx

http://windowsreport.com/partition-disappears-windows-10-anniversary-update/

http://superuser.com/questions/1022063/windows-10-default-programs-keep-changing

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/16-windows-10-anniversary-update-issues-fix/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2016/08/15/microsoft-warns-windows-10-anniversary-update-crashes-problems/

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/717115/Windows-10-Anniversary-Update-Install-Problems-Fail

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/76719/microsoft-broken-millions-webcams-windows-10-anniversary-updat

 

The only 2 times I've had my Windows OS completely screw up in the last many years was due to installing Windows 10 AU, and due to installing Windows 10, itself.

 

It is complete arrogance to presume that people don't know what they want for their PC systems, and to try to force something that people don't want on their systems. Doing that makes Windows 10 malware, and Microsoft no different than people who create malware to infect people's systems with unwanted software. Microsoft has to learn the concept of consent, which is a pillar of civilized society.

 

It's not a secret why Windows 10 is losing market share, while Windows 7 is gaining market share: People know better, while Microsoft clearly doesn't.

[AlTech]

3 minutes ago, samcool55 said:

Tbh i'm really suprised almost 25% managed to avoid the absolute brutal way they force updates.

I guess it all depends how you look at it.

Also, this is after 1 year, think about it in a few years, it's going to be a big mess very quickly if it keeps fragmenting at this rate.

Maybe for now it's all fine, but W10 is just over 1 year and already 25% is falling behind.

If you saw the first pie chat. 0.7% are on preview builds for the next major version.

 

Yes, if unchecked this could get hairy but I think MS will come up with a way to fix it.

[ARikozuM]

2 hours ago, GlassBomb said:

The problem as I see it isn't that you're getting updates. It is that there is no way to cancel/halt these updates.

 

Sure, this isn't a problem for the majority of the users. But the users who rely on a computer not shutting off randomly to finish updates can cause A LOT of problems.

 

Edit: Examples are if you are actually using the computer for work. I know of several who were working when their windows wanted to update stuff. They took a short break for lunch or similar, and came back to a rebooted computer. Losing some of their previous work.

There's a teeny tiny little option that comes up with every update that lets you change your working hours.

[Delicieuxz]

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

There's a teeny tiny little option that comes up with every update that lets you change your working hours.

That option doesn't allow a person to not install an update, or delay it for more than something like 8 hours.

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

That option doesn't allow a person to not install an update, or delay it for more than something like 8 hours.

That's not what I'm referring to. It does stop the PC from installing the updates when you're doing homework or watching entertainment.

[AlTech]

14 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Yeah, people with their tech are not comparable to legal minors, nor is the health of their PC systems comparable to the health of their bodies.

 

People know what they want for their technology devices, and it is their right to choose to have what they want with their PC systems. After all, they are the owners of their devices, and of the licensed instances of software that is installed on them. You can't tell an owner of their property that you know better regarding their own property, and so take over control of their property. Otherwise, someone could say you don't know better about how your car should be used, and so hijack your car.

 

At the centre of this debate is the recognition that, ultimately, people really do not want Windows 10 and its updates, and Microsoft acknowledges that by coming up with abuse rationalizations to disregard the fact that people don't want their software, and are looking for excuses to force it upon people. That's no different than a thief or a rapist.

 

And with the state of modern Microsoft QA, updating Windows is generally many times more unsafe than leaving Windows not-updated, as I showed in the list of Windows 10 issues above:

 

The only 2 times I've had my Windows OS completely screw up in the last many years was due to installing Windows 10 AU, and due to installing Windows 10, itself.

 

It is complete arrogance to presume that people don't know what they want for their PC systems, and to try to force something that people don't want on their systems. Doing that makes Windows 10 malware, and Microsoft no different than people who create malware to infect people's systems with unwanted software. Microsoft has to learn the concept of consent, which is a pillar of civilized society.

 

It's not a secret why Windows 10 is losing market share, while Windows 7 is gaining market share: People know better, while Microsoft clearly doesn't.

can we stop with these little tantrums where you guys show how butt hurt you are?

 

Nothing you say will change any of the facts. Most people aren't good at using computers. Most people would update their PC if they TRULY understood the benefits of it. If people needed to do a test (like you need for driving a car), most people would hopelessly fail.....

[Delicieuxz]

3 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

can we stop with these little tantrums where you guys show how butt hurt you are?

 

Nothing you say will change any of the facts. Most people aren't good at using computers. Most people would update their PC if they TRULY understood the benefits of it. If people needed to do a test (like you need for driving a car), most people would hopelessly fail.....

That's just a load of assumption and arrogance. People know what they want for their own machines. If people were fully aware, they'd likely be ditching Windows 10 at a much faster rate than they currently are.

[Sakkura]

22 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Yeah, people with their tech are not comparable to legal minors, nor is the health of their PC systems comparable to the health of their bodies.

 

People know what they want for their technology devices, and it is their right to choose to have what they want with their PC systems.

It is comparable.

 

Microsoft is licensing their software, it's their right to choose the terms of that license as well as how it is updated. Doesn't mean people have to love Microsoft's decisions, of course.

 

And people often do not know what they want. That's a well established fact.

[suicidalfranco]

28 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

There's a teeny tiny little option that comes up with every update that lets you change your working hours.

that option is useless, still downloads during your working hour 

[ARikozuM]

3 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

that option is useless, still downloads during your working hour 

Downloads and doesn't install.

[suicidalfranco]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

Downloads and doesn't install.

 

still downloading exactly when it shouldn't download, cause work hours in windows = game hours, download while i game means 3s ping, i dare you to play any game with 3 whole seconds of latency 

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

 

still downloading exactly when it shouldn't download, cause work hours in windows = game hours, download while i game means 3s ping, i dare you to play any game with 3 whole seconds of latency 

That sounds terrible. We should just stop downloading data to prepare for updates. Might as well stop Steam from downloading as well. /s

I download and still have <20ms ping. The latency isn't due to just the download.

[Delicieuxz]

30 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

It is comparable.

 

Microsoft is licensing their software, it's their right to choose the terms of that license as well as how it is updated. Doesn't mean people have to love Microsoft's decisions, of course.

Actually, it's because Microsoft is licensing their IP that they don't have a right to choose how it's updated. When a person buys a license of software, they retain full rights over that instance of the software, for the duration of the license. The Windows 10 licenses being sold, apart from the enterprise licenses, are perpetual licences, and are the legal property of the people who purchase them. Those licenses refer to individual instances of the Windows 10 software, and those instances of the software are therefore the property of the people who own the licenses to which they refer.

 

A software license is a property, and property rights legally apply to software licenses, and they give the person who own those licenses full decision-making authority over the software the license refers to.

 

Microsoft has no legal, or moral right to unilaterally make system-changing decisions over a person's Windows 10 installation, because those installations are not Microsoft's property. The Windows 10 IP is, but people's installed instances of Windows 10 are not.

[The Benjamins]

4 minutes ago, huilun02 said:

Just because majority of people don't know how to keep their OS in shape, is not an excuse for MS to shove it down everyone's throat.

They don't even leave the option for manual updates in some obscure page deep inside settings, something tech savvy users would like to have.

A scumbag corporation selling user data without consent, incessant lies to the PC community, resorting to cheap tactics deliberately making good stuff exclusive to get us onto whatever platform they are pushing.

 

I have their Bing/Xbox/telemetry servers domain/IP firewalled on my home router for my entire family. MS can suck on a fat one.

If you have pro or higher you can disable updates, home you can't. If you are a tech user and want more control get pro.

[suicidalfranco]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

That sounds terrible. We should just stop downloading data to prepare for updates. Might as well stop Steam from downloading as well. /s

I download and still have <20ms ping. The latency isn't due to just the download.

at least steam is smart enough to stop a download when i play a game and to download only at specific time slots i let it download. Unlike some other software house who only give options that serve as placebo at most

The latency si due solely to downloads when your don't have a fast internet connection 

[ARikozuM]

4 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

at least steam is smart enough to stop a download when i play a game and to download only at specific time slots i let it download. Unlike some other software house who only give options that serve as placebo at most

The latency si due solely to downloads when your don't have a fast internet connection 

Any 30Mb/s service should be plenty to allow for good transfer and ping is due to upload as well.

[The Benjamins]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

at least steam is smart enough to stop a download when i play a game and to download only at specific time slots i let it download. Unlike some other software house who only give options that serve as placebo at most

The latency si due solely to downloads when your don't have a fast internet connection 

I use QOS on my router so nothing can give anyone lag.