Macs are 3x cheaper than Windows based PCs says IBM

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, zMeul said:

does MS charges less for MAC Office? no

Office for Mac is a bit of a missnomer these days as you can use 365 at the same cost.

 

Also as far as open/free software - it's not just a software cost, it's also support. Eg RedHat support is still quite expensive.

[zMeul]

1 minute ago, Windspeed36 said:

Office for Mac is a bit of a missnomer these days as you can use 365 at the same cost.

 

Also as far as open/free software - it's not just a software cost, it's also support. Eg RedHat support is still quite expensive.

but you do not have to buy the service, and it's perplexing coming from IBM fully knowing that they offer support services to enterprise clients

[Thony]

TLDR; Ptebuilt machines for business use not consumer grade machines ! 

 

Little missleading title beciae it makes it sound like its related to all Windows based PCs.

[RagnarokDel]

Seems to me there's a pretty big flaw in his math. You have to include the total price of the hardware in the calculation.

 

5 hours ago, Houndz199 said:

Interesting Article, but it makes sense. They wouldn't be switching if it weren't the better option for them. However I wonder if their computer illiterate people choose windows because that is what they have a home.

If my job decided to force me to use a mac, I would quit on that day. It's one thing if it's voluntary, it's another thing when you shove it down the throat of people who want nothing to do with it. It's like if tomorow the corporation you work for decided that from now on, you'll user azerty on your keyboard instead of qwerty. It might be more efficient but just, no.

 

PS: How many of those employees in their experiment were mac users at home?

[Bleedingyamato]

5 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

This is all most people will care about.  Now imagine if they only priced them the same... they'd save even more money!

Too bad Apple is essentially the stereotypical D&D dragon that LOVES (?) to hoard money by taking as much from people as it can.   Macs definitely cost more vs Windows than a few hundred dollars.  That guy is underestimating the difference  possibly on purpose to make their choice to use Macs look better.

 

5 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

That's not what this article is about.  In fact it even admitted macs are overpriced compared to PCs.  The point is that the users on macs typically needed less tech support and less frequent upgrades, and that saved them money over time, in a net sense.

To me this makes it clear the real issue is the Windows OS (whatever version is being used) literacy of users.  Or lack thereof I should say.  MacOS being designed to prevent users from having the access to mess it up as easily doesn't make it inherently better than Windows it just means it's better for the sheeple Mac users who don't know what they're doing using a computer.  

 

The core issue as I said above is that users simply need to be better educated about using Windows.  Specifically how not to make easily avoided mistakes that would cause problems and thus a need for IT support. Think about it: if users knew even just a little more than the average user knows and could use that knowledge to avoid many easily preventable screw ups, and even troubleshoot some things themselves, then the overall cost of using Windows would be far lower than overpriced Macs.  

 

 

All that would be required is companies providing employees with some training and reference materials to improve their Windows literacy.  

 

I think it's ridiculous that any company would actually choose to waste money buying overpriced Macs just because they're too lazy to spend less money properly training their employees to better use Windows.  

 

 

[79wjd]

@Bleedingyamato You're right. You must know better than a company worth over one hundred billion dollars. 

[Misanthrope]

It looks about right. If someone was willing to do it for Linux or hackintosh (because of the grey area that's highly unlikely though) they could save on both support AND hardware and software upfront costs but that might be too much to ask even for a large company.

[Bleedingyamato]

1 hour ago, Windspeed36 said:

Office for Mac is a bit of a missnomer these days as you can use 365 at the same cost.

 

Also as far as open/free software - it's not just a software cost, it's also support. Eg RedHat support is still quite expensive.

365 is essentially a scam by MS to trick people into paying more for an inferior version of a product.

 

They want people to think that more frequent updates and whatever else 365 does different is so much better that people don't care they're just paying for a subscription instead of actually owning a copy of MS Office.

 

MS Office ages very well and even versions well behind the current one still allow files to be created in current formats and other changes to the UI are largely pointless in my experience and sometimes actually make MS Office less user friendly.  

 

So my point is you or a business could go buy copies of MS Office, pay a one time fee, and then use that version for several years before it MIGHT actually become necessary to upgrade to a newer version.

 

Paying a yearly repeating subscription cost is insane by comparison.  A totally pointless waste of money.

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

It looks about right. If someone was willing to do it for Linux or hackintosh (because of the grey area that's highly unlikely though) they could save on both support AND hardware and software upfront costs but that might be too much to ask even for a large company.

The cost to setup/manage Linux would probably outweigh the savings in hardware costs, and hackintosh is a big no no for an enterprise -- as an individual, pirating software is highly unlikely to get you in trouble, however as an enterprise the rules change drastically. Not to mention hackintosh would drive up support costs and, again, outweigh the benefit.

 

3 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

365 is essentially a scam by MS to trick people into paying more for an inferior version of a product.

 

They want people to think that more frequent updates and whatever else 365 does different is so much better that people don't care they're just paying for a subscription instead of actually owning a copy of MS Office.

 

MS Office ages very well and even versions well behind the current one still allow files to be created in current formats and other changes to the UI are largely pointless in my experience and sometimes actually make MS Office less user friendly.  

 

So my point is you or a business could go buy copies of MS Office, pay a one time fee, and then use that version for several years before it MIGHT actually become necessary to upgrade to a newer version.

 

Paying a yearly repeating subscription cost is insane by comparison.  A totally pointless waste of money.

Yet there are tons and tons of companies that switched to 365. There are benefits that outweigh the costs.

[jaggysnake57]

 

5 hours ago, Steeve said:

• pointless waffle snipped

 

jesus 7 posts into the forum and already im gussing half the forum is adding you to there ignore list.......we are talking enterprise not consumer.....but im sure that IBM always plant there pc requirments on pc partpicker....FFS

3 hours ago, Dionyz said:

I hate the fact that to put songs on iPhone you HAVE TO GET ITUNES. Jesus I do not like that software, and I would like to do it by plug in and upload. Nope. I have a NAS that can access the file, but cannot download it on iPhone... You loose a lot of access going MAC

 

3 hours ago, Dionyz said:

I am bashing on MAC based software. Anyways the music issue is still here, and I hate this troubleshooting. It should be as easy as drag and drop.

 

I get all my music, but as soon as I want to sync it with another computer then it's a whole another problem

11 minutes ago, RagnarokDel said:

If my job decided to force me to use a mac, I would quit on that day.

and they would replace you the next day

 

personally i prefer windows to mac....not saying that mac os is bad just that the freedom of windows suits me. i can see how a closed off environment is better for business than a more open one.

[jaggysnake57]

6 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

365 is essentially a scam by MS to trick people into paying more for an inferior version of a product.

sorry for the multi post but da fuq?  i get 5 copies of office and 5 lots of 1TB cloud storage for £7 a month how is that a scam?

[pyrojoe34]

6 hours ago, Nicholatian said:

Brace yourselves, an ignorant shitstorm of Apple hate comments is coming…

 

 

 

Anyway, this really is the truth. Way back in the day, PCs were sold for a fortune with all of this software included, believe it or not. But they stopped doing that to make things appear more affordable – whenever I tally up something on Lenovo’s website, for example, a decent computer runs me about $2,500 all things considered. It hasn’t changed. Not really.

That's not the only reason they stopped bundling software. They stopped because they were sued by the government (anti-trust laws) since they were cornering the software market. Their market share was too large and they had to allow competition.

[Bleedingyamato]

8 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

@Bleedingyamato You're right. You must know better than a company worth over one hundred billion dollars. 

Apple frequently does stupid things that consumers hate yet they make huge profits.

 

Nintendo has made huge very widely acknowledged mistakes and poor business decisions with the gimmicky designs of the Wii and Wii U along with boy properly cultivating third party support for their consoles that would encourage more AAA titles on Nintendo consoles.  Yet they still must do alright because they're still in business.

 

Intel is obviously very profitable since it's in a oligopoly with AMD in the CPU market so of course they're profitable and can afford to absorb the cost of this poor decision.

 

Does this make any of these companies stupid choices any better?  Of course it doesn't.

 

Companies make costly and/or avoidable mistakes all the time and keep on going.

 

 

It is a fact that Intel could've chosen to provide training and reference materials to its employees instead of switching to Macs.  It is also a fact that increased literacy with Windows would reduce problems that would typically come up and thus reduce the overall cost of using Windows.  

 

But yeah I'm 100% wrong and actually teaching people how to properly use what they have is a terrible idea.  It's better to toss all those evil Windows computers into the garbage and buy overpriced Macs just to use a different OS.  ?  /s

[FloRolf]

I don't get why windows people need more tech support. I literally never needed tech support for OS problems. 

 

And also, what OS are they actually using? Having all PCs on W10? Most likely not because apparently it's too much of a hassle to update OS more frequently. But switching to Mac? Ez pz? 

 

That's some massive BS imho. 

[abazigal]

That has been my experience as well. Apple products cost more upfront, but more than pay for themselves in the form of greater productivity and fewer problems. 

[Dabombinable]

1 minute ago, abazigal said:

That has been my experience as well. Apple products cost more upfront, but more than pay for themselves in the form of greater productivity and fewer problems. 

Greater productivity? Are you high?

[abazigal]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Greater productivity? Are you high?

Is it so hard to believe, much less accept?

[captain_to_fire]

Here's my thoughts on macOS Sierra and Windows 10:

 

File Explorer > Finder

Spotlight+Siri ≥ Search+Cortana

Microsoft Edge ≥ Safari

Time Machine > File History

Mission Control > Task View

macOS Mail & Calendar > Windows Mail & Calendar

macOS Split View < Windows 10 Snap

Managing System Updates: macOS > Windows (It's 2016 and Windows Updates are still obtrusive, unlike macOS I can just ignore it without being bothered)

FileVault ≥ BitLocker (Because FileVault doesn't require another macOS version and a TPM chip)

 

[Bleedingyamato]

17 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

The cost to setup/manage Linux would probably outweigh the savings in hardware costs, and hackintosh is a big no no for an enterprise -- as an individual, pirating software is highly unlikely to get you in trouble, however as an enterprise the rules change drastically. Not to mention hackintosh would drive up support costs and, again, outweigh the benefit.

 

Yet there are tons and tons of companies that switched to 365. There are benefits that outweigh the costs.

They switched because they're lazy and got suckered into a reoccurring fee instead of a one time fixed fee to use one perfectly good version until it's useful lifespan is used up.

 

Again, just because multiple people or companies all make the same bad choice that doesn't make the choice any better.  A single fixed cost for a product with a long lifespan is superior to a reoccurring yearly fee.

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, abazigal said:

Is it so hard to believe, much less accept?

Its just not true. At all. OSX may cost less in regards to support than Windows, and is more stable. But in no way in hell does a Mac or Macbook come any where near.

6 hours ago, Steeve said:

• This is the 

  got you buddy 

• 15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display (top of the line 512gb version)
•  
• __SPECS __
• 2.5GHz quad-core Intel Core i7
• Turbo Boost up to 3.7GHz
• 16GB 1600MHz memory
• 512GB PCIe-based flash storage¹
• Intel Iris Pro Graphics
• AMD Radeon R9 M370X with 2GB GDDR5 memory
• __Cost__
• $ 2,300.00

 

Custom PC (part picker link : http://pcpartpicker.com/list/PZvH3F )

__SPECS__

Intel Core i7-6700k 4.0 GHz Clock Speed 

Corsair H100i v2 70.7 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler

Asus Z170-A ATX LGA1151 Motherboard

Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive

(2 x) Samsung 850 EVO-Series 500GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Raid in redundancy or anything really)

Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case

EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 P2 1000W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply

G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR4-3200 Memory

Asus GeForce GTX 1080 8GB STRIX Video Card( 2Way - SLI )

__COST__

$2146.02

The custom PC will beat the crappy mac any day.

 

Lenovo Y700 (2015)

 

__SPECS__

Intel Core i7-6700HQ 2.6 GHz Processor

8 GB DDR4 SDRAM (16 Gb easily upgradable)

1 TB 5400 rpm Hard Drive

NVIDIA GeForce 960M Graphics

Amazing build quality and speakers

__COST__

$870.00

this cheap ass laptop kicks the macs ass while being literally less than half the price

 

and are you still gonna tell me that macs are worth it

 

[bobhays]

3 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I've never had an issue using spotlight, it always finds whatever programs/files/folders I'm looking for -- I can't quite say the same for windows start menu search unfortunately. As for windows management, Better touch tool fixes everything (apple does need to fix that shit). The dock functions the same as the taskbar in windows. You can put quick launch icons there and if an app is open, then it is also there. The taskbar is better in that the default behavior for clicking on an open app with multiple windows is that it shows a list of windows rather than jumping to one arbitrarily (although you can right click the app to get a list of windows in OSX). So I'd give the taskbar a slight, but also irrelevant, edge. As for the mouse, it's ergonomics are shit, but whatever, the stock mouse that comes with most dells is also shit (albeit still better). 

 

A trackpad definitely makes the OSX experience FAR better. The multi-touch trackpad/gestures is one of the things that I really like and prefer about using a mac. 

Yeah the spotlight finds what u want most of the time which is why it's so annoying when it doesn't. The problem I have with the dock is that if I don't minimize the window then the individual windows won't show up at the bottom. It's a lot easier to switch programs in Windows that way (also here's more room for more active programs). The biggest problem I have with the Apple mouse is the scroll wheel and lack of right click (it's the one with the scroll orb thing.) I use a generic Lenovo mouse which works 5x better than the Apple one and costs like $5.the ergonomics still aren't great though but better than Apples. 

 

Either way I can't recommend Apple desktops, laptops are another story. 

[QueenDemetria]

1 hour ago, Bleedingyamato said:

To me this makes it clear the real issue is the Windows OS (whatever version is being used) literacy of users.  Or lack thereof I should say.

 

I used to agree with this, but with Microsoft doing major UI overhauls and re-locating shit with their three most recent OS's it's no wonder why people are struggling with Win 8, then 8.1, and now 10. When Windows 7 was new, it was pretty much like Vista, which  was pretty much like XP, which was pretty much like W2K, and 98, and 95(and no I didn't forget ME, fuck WinME). 

 

I consider myself fluent with confusers(hah, I'm leaving this AC), but when I First used Win 10 it pissed me off since even the simplist things like Control panel aren't where they used to be, and that is just the start. Win 8 really had me salty for the same reasons.

 

On the other hand, my wife is primarily a Mac user(Linux Mint otherwise), and when I brought home a first gen MacBook today(running leopard 10.5), she used it no probelm, since it's fairly similar to whatever the current Mac OS is today. I use her MacBook(2015 model) sometimes and I can clearly see the similarities between the old  and new Mac OS, playing around with my "new" CrackBook was easy since the OS was familiar.

 

Of course, companies could just train people on how to use these 'machines', but that costs money(probably more than tech support), and if they have to re-train workers every 2-4 years then OS X's "same shit as last year" looks compelling.

[Belgarathian]

Okay, I'll admit... Slightly misleading title. Impressed with the discussion happening in here, team! 

 

Just some FYI housekeeping - in 2014 Apple and IBM created a partnership, Apple open-sourced Swift (programming language), IBM embraced it and took it to the cloud for enterprise mobile app development.

 

https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/15/apple-teams-up-with-ibm-for-huge-expansive-enterprise-push/

 

The user case still remains relevant however as the whole article is about the whole of life costs of the macOS (and accompanying hardware) compared to a similar Windows based PC taking into account help desk support which would still be 40% Windows, 5% macOS. 

[abazigal]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

Its just not true. At all. OSX may cost less in regards to support than Windows, and is more stable. But in no way in hell does a Mac or Macbook come any where near.

Well, my 2011 iMac is still going strong, and working as well as the day I got it without me needing to do anything to maintain it. Contrast it with the numerous windows PCs I owned prior to this, where they would all inevitably slow down within months of getting them. 

 

OS X also came with quite a few useful apps back then, such as preview (very capable PDF management tool), iMovie and iTunes (surprisingly useful for ripping CDs). 

 

Basically, I found I spent way less time babying my hardware, which meant more time available to focus on just getting stuff done. I realize the value of a hassle-free user experience can't really be quantified into dollars and cents here, but to me, getting a Mac has been worth every cent to me. 

[Belgarathian]

13 minutes ago, hey_yo_ said:

Here's my thoughts on macOS Sierra and Windows 10:

 

File Explorer > Finder

Spotlight+Siri ≥ Search+Cortana

Microsoft Edge ≥ Safari

Time Machine > File History

Mission Control > Task View

macOS Mail & Calendar > Windows Mail & Calendar

macOS Split View < Windows 10 Snap

Managing System Updates: macOS > Windows (It's 2016 and Windows Updates are still obtrusive, unlike macOS I can just ignore it without being bothered)

FileVault ≥ BitLocker (Because FileVault doesn't require another macOS version and a TPM chip)

 

Pretty much agree with this, yes. I would prefer Finder and its tags + tabs, however. But otherwise pretty much the same IMO. Searching or macOS is a shit load (yes, that's a technical term) faster than Windows on similar M.2 NVMe SSDs.