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Macs are 3x cheaper than Windows based PCs says IBM

Belgarathian
3 minutes ago, Dionyz said:

I hate the fact that to put songs on iPhone you HAVE TO GET ITUNES. Jesus I do not like that software, and I would like to do it by plug in and upload. Nope. I have a NAS that can access the file, but cannot download it on iPhone... You loose a lot of access going MAC

How does being forced to use iTunes with an iPhone  mean anything for using a Mac. I can use Foobar if I want, I can run chrome, thunderbird, steam, opera, etc.... I don't have to use any Apple software if I don't want to. 

 

What exactly is it that you "[lose] access to by using a mac"?

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1 minute ago, Dionyz said:

I hate the fact that to put songs on iPhone you HAVE TO GET ITUNES. Jesus I do not like that software, and I would like to do it by plug in and upload. Nope. I have a NAS that can access the file, but cannot download it on iPhone... You loose a lot of access going MAC

I actually use iTunes and ITunesfusion to get my Android and iOS devices synced to the same libraries. iTunes is a little easier to use most of the time, IMO.

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3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

I meant replace as re-place. Put them in their preferred spot.

Oh.

 

Well you have training costs, and other direct and indirect costs associated with that too. Cheaper than fire-hire, but still expensive. 

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Just now, Belgarathian said:

Oh.

 

Well you have training costs, and other direct and indirect costs associated with that too. Cheaper than fire-hire, but still expensive. 

Expensive but tailored to the strengths of the workforce since short-term expenses can be leveled with the long-term.

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4 minutes ago, Dionyz said:

I hate the fact that to put songs on iPhone you HAVE TO GET ITUNES. Jesus I do not like that software, and I would like to do it by plug in and upload. Nope. I have a NAS that can access the file, but cannot download it on iPhone... You loose a lot of access going MAC

I can load iTunes onto Windows 10... iOS locks down the iPhone for security reasons (so they say) hence why you don't have a micro SD slot and can really use the iPhone for a USB drive (as you can Android). 

 

There are transfer apps in the iOS store that you can use to upload files without having to use iTunes. 

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7 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

How does being forced to use iTunes with an iPhone  mean anything for using a Mac. I can use Foobar if I want, I can run chrome, thunderbird, etc... I don't have to use any Apple software if I don't want to. 

I am bashing on MAC based software. Anyways the music issue is still here, and I hate this troubleshooting. It should be as easy as drag and drop.

 

I get all my music, but as soon as I want to sync it with another computer then it's a whole another problem

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3 minutes ago, Dionyz said:

I am bashing on MAC based software. Anyways the music issue is still here, and I hate this troubleshooting. It should be as easy as drag and drop.

 

I get all my music, but as soon as I want to sync it with another computer then it's a whole another problem

Please, explain what it is that you lose access to by using a Mac. Or don't make a ridiculous claim you can't back up. For the average person, iTunes is easier than drag and drop -- plug in your iOS device, select your music library, click sync. 

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Not talking about cost at all, I personally can't stand MacOS. I used to think it had some great features like spotlight and different desktops/workspaces. The problem is that its windows management is just terrible, and spotlight isn't nearly as good as i thought, Some annoyances I have, spotlight doesn't recognize all programs installed so I cant just search any program and open it via spotlight. The windows snapping to half the screen only works on applications that support it (unlike windows where it just resizes the window, like how hard was that Apple). Windows taskbar is SO MUCH BETTER when you're trying to do some real work. I don't need a dock full of applications I could open, I want the ones I did open. Also the mouse really hurts my experience. That's also Apples fault but not related to the OS argument.

 

Also side note: I dont understand how Mac is any more intuitive than Windows. As far as the average person is concerned if they want to change some setting just search it in the tool bar and boom you're done. Again not MacOS, but I find iTunes to be one of the least intuitive pieces of software. One huge reason I use Android is the ability to use a basic folder structure.

 

Note: My experience is mainly with an iMac so trackpad shortcuts could definitely alleviate some of the concerns.

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for me macs are more expensive.

Software cost? $0.. (pirating is bad, mmk)

Hardware cost? $0/yr (aprox, i may get a new keyboard in the middle of the year, tacking on $33.40..)

so the total price would be the price of the physical hardware, which on macs are more expensive.

especially for more performance.

amplify the price of macs because of canada, eh..

 

so for me, its way more expensive on mac than on windows. :P my half a cent.

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138 is a good number.

 

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1 minute ago, bobhays said:

Not talking about cost at all, I personally can't stand MacOS. I used to think it had some great features like spotlight and different desktops/workspaces. The problem is that its windows management is just terrible, and spotlight isn't nearly as good as i thought, Some annoyances I have, spotlight doesn't recognize all programs installed so I cant just search any program and open it via spotlight. The windows snapping to half the screen only works on applications that support it (unlike windows where it just resizes the window, like how hard was that Apple). Windows taskbar is SO MUCH BETTER when you're trying to do some real work. I don't need a dock full of applications I could open, I want the ones I did open. Also the mouse really hurts my experience. That's also Apples fault but not related to the OS argument.

 

Note: My experience is mainly with an iMac so trackpad shortcuts could definitely alleviate some of the concerns.

I've never had an issue using spotlight, it always finds whatever programs/files/folders I'm looking for -- I can't quite say the same for windows start menu search unfortunately. As for windows management, Better touch tool fixes everything (apple does need to fix that shit). The dock functions the same as the taskbar in windows. You can put quick launch icons there and if an app is open, then it is also there. The taskbar is better in that the default behavior for clicking on an open app with multiple windows is that it shows a list of windows rather than jumping to one arbitrarily (although you can right click the app to get a list of windows in OSX). So I'd give the taskbar a slight, but also irrelevant, edge. As for the mouse, it's ergonomics are shit, but whatever, the stock mouse that comes with most dells is also shit (albeit still better). 

 

A trackpad definitely makes the OSX experience FAR better. The multi-touch trackpad/gestures is one of the things that I really like and prefer about using a mac. 

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4 minutes ago, Prysin said:

i can understand that the tech support costs are lower, but what fucking software do you have to buy on PC that macs bring for free?

Pages, Keynote and Numbers are literally all I could think of. All of those are APPLE apps.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Pages, Keynote and Numbers are literally all I could think of. All of those are APPLE apps.

so basically

Word and Excel and notepad for PC...

 

there is functional and free versions of those for windows too, although not nearly as "famous" as Office is. Then again, office isnt nearly expensive enough to add much to that cost.

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3 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Pages, Keynote and Numbers are literally all I could think of. All of those are APPLE apps.

 

7 minutes ago, Prysin said:

i can understand that the tech support costs are lower, but what fucking software do you have to buy on PC that macs bring for free?

See my comments regarding licensing - Microsoft Open/EA's are astronomically expensive (~$900 RRP for Office Pro 2016, per user CAL's for Exchange at $230ea)

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1 minute ago, Prysin said:

so basically

Word and Excel and notepad for PC...

Yes, yes and no. Keynote is a presentation software......

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

there is functional and free versions of those for windows too, although not nearly as "famous" as Office is. Then again, office isnt nearly expensive enough to add much to that cost.

The online version of Office (aptly named "Office Online") is free. It comes with a reduced feature set but is still usable.

Just now, Windspeed36 said:

 

See my comments regarding licensing - Microsoft Open/EA's are astronomically expensive (~$900 RRP for Office Pro 2016, per user CAL's for Exchange at $230ea)

But Apple's productivity software is kinda mediocre.

 

Also, see my comment above for Office Online.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

it would depend on the setup you have and what services you use. IBM's systems might work better with macs but another company's systems might work better with PC

Yeah, for example. My school uses PCs (for the most part) and Macs don't fit too well with what they want from a  computer.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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5 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Yes, yes and no. Keynote is a presentation software......

The online version of Office (aptly named "Office Online") is free. It comes with a reduced feature set but is still usable.

But Apple's productivity software is kinda mediocre.

 

Also, see my comment above for Office Online.

Office online (Office 365 Business Essentials) is still $85 per user per year and the majority of businesses are only just starting to transition to that as it encompases mail and file storage too.

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17 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

- snip -

This I must agree. Regular Macs do look to be more expensive at first but, compared to a Windows PC solution for work,

  • Its drivers are a non-issue
  • Requires little maintenance
  • Has a solid OS, low risk of malware
  • Lasts long thanks to excellent build quality
  • Prone to less errors, crashes and BSODs
  • Lasts much longer before needing an upgrade.

Asking the same quality and reliability from Windows PCs will require you to get business grade solutions which cost more than regular Macs, if not less.

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The problem is that this is an nVidia product and scoring any nVidia product a "zero" is also highly predictive of the number of nVidia products the reviewer will receive for review in the future.

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You apparently haven't seen his responses to questions on YouTube. He is very condescending and aggressive in his comments with which there is little justification. He acts totally different in his videos. I don't necessarily care for this content style and there is nothing really unique about him or his channel. His endless dick jokes and toilet humor are annoying as well.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Windspeed36 said:

Office online (Office 365 Business Essentials) is still $85 per user per year and the majority of businesses are only just starting to transition to that as it encompases mail and file storage too.

Lol.................. For consumers it's free.

Judge a product on its own merits AND the company that made it.

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I wonder if they compared build quality and smaller features when comparing comparably spec'd prices.

 

Yes, you can get a cheaper Windows based laptop with the same processor/graphics/ram/etc but does it have a premium design like unibody aluminum and smaller but likable features like magsafe. The only laptop that I see comparable to a MacBook is the XPS line and those are a pretty penny too.

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I wonder though, if they would spend that extra upfront cost the set up the Windows computers better (more locking down, idk what they do that requires so much help desk use) how would they then compare?

What is that 40% of people actually needing from the Tech support? That is my question here.

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6 minutes ago, Sidiox said:

I wonder though, if they would spend that extra upfront cost the set up the Windows computers better (more locking down, idk what they do that requires so much help desk use) how would they then compare?

What is that 40% of people actually needing from the Tech support? That is my question here.

As someone who's worked in tech support for a company of 200~ people, most of the issues that people have are with some windows error, the monitor/keyboard/mouse got unplugged, or some virus/malware. 

 

From my experience there just tends to be less OSX errors and/or OSX systems that run into serious virus/malware related problems. And most Mac's in a business world would be AIOs/laptops replacing traditional towers/laptops -- so less possibilities for things to get disconnected. 

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8 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Lol.................. For consumers it's free.

Yeah but we're not talking consumer here, we're talking business and enterprise.

3 minutes ago, Sidiox said:

I wonder though, if they would spend that extra upfront cost the set up the Windows computers better (more locking down, idk what they do that requires so much help desk use) how would they then compare?

What is that 40% of people actually needing from the Tech support? That is my question here.

Additional costs for using a Microsoft product come from two areas - software cost and helpdesk.

 

For the software cost, if you don't use a Microsoft product you obviously don't need to pay the ludicrous costs for their licesing. As I explained in a previous post, for Exchange and Office on premise for 4 years at 500 users, it's an additional $75k to have it versus using Office 365 - I would not use the Mac equivalents for Office UNLESS they are using something like Icewarp or a similar non Exchange email solution. If they require a Microsoft email solution, Office 365 is a financially better option.

 

As for helpdesk - there's a heap that I know people deal with on a day to day bassis general troubleshooting issues with regards to Windows patching, viruses, driver issues and more.

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4 hours ago, Windspeed36 said:

So as someone who works for an MSP and has worked in presales for a commercial IT company - it's true. The cost for Microsoft licensing is astronomically expensive. $600 for Office Pro for business? User CAL's at $230 each for remote desktop? CAL's for Exchange? Microsoft squeeze every dollar they can out of businesses.

 

How do you think they fund all their other stuff?

 

Don't get me started on the support desk cost either.

but you have the option to go Linux or use free open software

 

the idea that the MAC ecosystem is generally cheaper than (Windows) PC is not entirely true

does MS charges less for MAC Office? no

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