What killed VR?

[Ithanul]

1 hour ago, ThinkWithPortals said:

I don't think VR is dead, just unconcious. Until we get cheaper desktop headsets and cheaper VR ready PCs, it's a no-go for Joe Average.

Pretty much this.  Also, ease of setup and use.

 

The average person is not going to bother with VR if it takes effort to setup and is not easy to use.  It the whole reason consoles, handhelds, and smartphones are everywhere.  Price, ease of setup, and use.  If there one thing that makes things sell, it is convenience.

[Sy1v]

I understand you're trying to explain what is really happening to the world of VR but it's a early for people to make claims about it dying. There are great games made by Indie's already out and 'The Lab' has proven VR to have some great potential.

 

As mentioned earlier about 4k; It's new. It's expensive to drive 4k gaming smoothly and the monitors are starting to get cheaper because it's been out for quite some time and technology advances. Even still, 1080p is still the most used resolution as I believe LTT mentioned. Then there's Ultrawide (i.e: 21:9): It's expensive if you want anything above 60hz. It's MORE expensive than a Vive if you want 3440x1440p100 (ASUS / Acer's monitors). I really want to go ultrawide but since DP1.2 is being used on those 3440x1440p100 monitors and the port is at the limit, I decided to wait and see what DP1.3 monitors will offer and bought the Vive (yesterday) and LOVE it. 

 

The same idea of 4k can be said about Intel's i7 6950x processor. If you really want to be the first to have an i7 with 10 cores and 20 threads, be prepared to pay for it. You can OC it to 4.3ghz so it's not the end of the world if clock speed is a concern. Your title's argument and image preview (What killed VR and "Did Greed (Price) kill VR") can be placed on anything that is new to the consumer. The 6950x ($1650) is 'killed' because everyone would much rather have a 6700k ($350 - almost 5x cheaper) or even the 6600k ($250 - 6.6x cheaper). VR or I guess Vive ($800) is 'killed' because everyone would much rather have a Samsung GearVR ($100 - 8x cheaper or roughly same price if you factor in having to purchase the phone for it).

 

Console gamers (more specifically PS users) have PSVR. Mobile has their VR, and so does PC. If you have a decent PC, you may be able to swap out a few of the components to meet the minimum system requirements. If you're buying a VR headset now, you're getting early access to something great. I believe you're right about it being very hard to explain how great VR is and that they have to just demo the headset on the WAN show. Instead of telling people VR is killed and trying to answer the 6 questions (Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How), tell them to go try it out at a store with a Demo. Best Buy or Microsoft stores demo them on the top of my head (at least in the US). Sure it's expensive but if people get excited about something, they will surely save up money for it. VR is a niche market and most likely will be for quite some time since it's very new.

 

Sales peaked because the consumers that really wanted it early, saved up/put money aside and got it. Now the Vive's or other VR platforms should have a slow upbringing through word of mouth (my friend introduced me to the Vive, i bought it 3 months later when it was more available). Looking up Vive sales, there is news from today that HTC sold 100k Vives in August but has also sold another 40k in a matter of weeks One mentioned how developers may see the peak in sales as a bad thing and that's very logical and concerning. However, there are still developers and there is still great potential.

[Gibbons]

https://www.vrfocus.com/2016/10/sony-sells-50000-playstation-vrs-during-first-week-in-japan/

 

Over 50k PSVR headsets already sold, just in Japan.

 

The problem is cost. 4k monitors aren't dead because few people bought them in 2013. People are waiting to get to that magic $300 number where taking a risk on new tech can be easier justified. Some just wait until certain tech becomes available because they can't afford to upgrade regularly. VR just needs time to mature.

 

In terms of mobile vs desktop, Mobile VR was always going to be the lead platform because that is where the largest market is (there are over 1 million Gear VR users).

 

[nicklmg]

32 minutes ago, Sy1v said:

-snip-

The main difference between VR and other advancements in technology (like 4K) is that there isn't really a comparative for "bad VR" with 4K.

 

One of the main points is that Gear VR and other mobile solutions are not nearly comparable to the experience of desktop VR. Since it's so accessible while desktop VR is not, more "mainstream" people may not necessarily realize WHY there is such a significant price delta.

[Sakkura]

4 hours ago, nicklmg said:

As much as people don't want to believe it, there's actually a lot of accuracy to that argument.

 

If high-end investors see this as a failure due to the abysmal start, scaling will be difficult for headset makers as it may become difficult to secure an increased level of investment and therefore costs may take YEARS to drop (due to an inability to reach an "economies of scale" level of production), compounding the problem.

Facebook has already invested its billions, so they're not going to pull out just like that.

 

Valve is investing as well, and don't have shareholders that could tell them to back out.

 

Reaching economies of scale thus has nothing to do with the funding side, and everything to do with consumer adoption.

[nicklmg]

55 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

Facebook has already invested its billions, so they're not going to pull out just like that.

 

Valve is investing as well, and don't have shareholders that could tell them to back out.

 

Reaching economies of scale thus has nothing to do with the funding side, and everything to do with consumer adoption.

IMO truly healthy competition is going to require more than two big players, and all I'm saying is that it may discourage NEW investment. Yes, Oculus and Vive will continue to scale, but I don't believe those two will drive prices down to the point that people will want to see even within the next 5 years without new market entrants.

 

Just the 2c of a relatively uninformed dude though, I've certainly been wrong before and I will certainly be wrong again  

[ARikozuM]

Video killed the VR star?

[Centurius]

1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

Facebook has already invested its billions, so they're not going to pull out just like that.

 

Valve is investing as well, and don't have shareholders that could tell them to back out.

 

Reaching economies of scale thus has nothing to do with the funding side, and everything to do with consumer adoption.

HTC is a possible problem, they haven't been doing the greatest financially the past few years and do have shareholders to worry about.

[The Flying Sloth]

Sloth's smart idea #1

Implement a system to use GearVR as an Oculus/Vive for your PC

Well, maybe not exactly GearVR but use a 4K phone

Voila,
Everyone with a smartphone has PC VR (albeit at a lower resolution than the Vive/Oculus)
 

[Techicolors]

virtual reality seems to become more of a trend for mobile phones, cause i find tons of VR headsets for smartphones from all sorts of manufacturers, and the majority i never heard of before.

[Sakkura]

1 hour ago, Centurius said:

HTC is a possible problem, they haven't been doing the greatest financially the past few years and do have shareholders to worry about.

Valve can always take their R&D to a new manufacturing partner.

1 hour ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Sloth's smart idea #1

Implement a system to use GearVR as an Oculus/Vive for your PC

Well, maybe not exactly GearVR but use a 4K phone

Voila,
Everyone with a smartphone has PC VR (albeit at a lower resolution than the Vive/Oculus)
 

 

Gear VR has higher resolution than the Vive and Rift (Oculus is the name of the company, FYI).

 

Using a PC to do the rendering for a Gear VR is not a bad idea in principle, but it's not practically possible at this point without too much latency or compression artifacts. That's why the Vive and Rift are wired - otherwise they could have been wireless from the beginning.

[dragoon20005]

VR is picking up in Japan and Asia

 

is because of this anime
 

Sword Art Online talks about highly advance VR where you get to control your char in MMORPG games

 

think of it as VR + World of Warcraft

 

 

Not only cost of VR is steep for desktops but also is the lack of games supporting VR.

 

 

I will dig in VR if i get to play Battlefield 1 or GTA 5 in VR

 

but we need to ditch the controllers like the HTC Vive for glove based controllers with pressure pads

 

but a true VR is where the person's mind is plugged into the game 100%

 

 

 

[GermSage]

There's also offerings from other manufacturers like Xiaomi that sells similar concept VR gears for as low as SGD 16.00. Compared to Samsung, Xiaomi also retail cheaper phones somewhere between SGD 130 to 600 that will be compatible their device. From their specs sheet, I believe their VR headwear should work with other phones on the market.

 

VR in its current iteration is too expensive for the average consumer, but I think mobile manufacturers may be onto something that could a working compromise.

 

We could be back to the question of whether resolution matters in VR or the experience that comes with it.

[The Flying Sloth]

2 hours ago, Sakkura said:

Valve can always take their R&D to a new manufacturing partner.

 

Gear VR has higher resolution than the Vive and Rift (Oculus is the name of the company, FYI).

 

Using a PC to do the rendering for a Gear VR is not a bad idea in principle, but it's not practically possible at this point without too much latency or compression artifacts. That's why the Vive and Rift are wired - otherwise they could have been wireless from the beginning.

Then why not have an optional USB C tether?

[handymanshandle]

11 hours ago, BlargKing said:

"Hey that thing that came out a year ago isn't in everyones living room yet."

 

"Oh shit, I guess VR is dead"

 

"Yeah. Not like its an emerging technology with a high upfront cost for both the users and developers. Must be dead"

 

RIP Virtual Reality. 2015-2016

 

 

Yeah, VR isn't dead. It just still needs some more time.

[Space Reptile]

this is a nice example of how fast an Episode can be outdated , note seven is cancelled/recalled

and a rig can be built for 800~1000$

 

still enjoyed it tho

[Synth3D]

The video is more focused on the HTC Vive and not VR technology overall, VR will provide many purposes outside of gaming.

 

The Oculus Rift has attracted a large market of the simulator fanbase, that is because they focused on the perfecting the seating experience. In comparison, HTC Vive focused on shooting galleries and fruit ninja variants, it was great at first but it was only a matter of time before Sony or Samsung developed cheaper versions of the technology.

 

For the simulator market, the major titles are already there with Elite: Dangerous, DiRT Rally, Project Cars and Euro Truck Simulator 2 but for other genres, there is still room for major titles. 

 

[elkenrod]

I, for one, blame Valve.  If they had announced Half Life 3 for VR, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

 

[FRN]

13 hours ago, ThinkWithPortals said:

I don't think VR is dead, just unconcious. Until we get cheaper desktop headsets and cheaper VR ready PCs, it's a no-go for Joe Average.

One of the reasons that a PC-VR headset is so expensive because right now, there are not a lot of companies manufacturing it. I can only name 2 companies but you probably already knew who they are. Basic economics tells us that the quantity of the good demanded (the VR headset) falls as the price rises, and vice versa. Hopefully when more companies creates a VR system of their own, they can drastically change the game for VR ready computers.

[Sakkura]

6 hours ago, GermSage said:

There's also offerings from other manufacturers like Xiaomi that sells similar concept VR gears for as low as SGD 16.00. Compared to Samsung, Xiaomi also retail cheaper phones somewhere between SGD 130 to 600 that will be compatible their device. From their specs sheet, I believe their VR headwear should work with other phones on the market.

 

VR in its current iteration is too expensive for the average consumer, but I think mobile manufacturers may be onto something that could a working compromise.

 

We could be back to the question of whether resolution matters in VR or the experience that comes with it.

Current mobile VR is trash, though. It really doesn't deliver a proper experience. 

6 hours ago, The Flying Sloth said:

Then why not have an optional USB C tether?

Because it's not useful, we don't have the wireless tech yet. 

4 hours ago, Space Reptile said:

this is a nice example of how fast an Episode can be outdated , note seven is cancelled/recalled

and a rig can be built for 800~1000$

 

still enjoyed it tho

A VR ready system could be built for $750 months ago. Now you can get a Rift capable build for $500.

[Space Reptile]

1 minute ago, Sakkura said:

Rift capable build for $500.

i was aiming 6600k + RX480~1070 , not FX4300 + GTX960 , you know something that can run ANY VR game on ANY headset 

 

true , an entry sys is like 500~600$ , but thats meh

[Sakkura]

20 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

i was aiming 6600k + RX480~1070 , not FX4300 + GTX960 , you know something that can run ANY VR game on ANY headset 

 

true , an entry sys is like 500~600$ , but thats meh

Even a Vive-capable system doesn't have to cost $800. You don't need a 6600K. Here's a $725 build.

[Space Reptile]

1 minute ago, Sakkura said:

$725 build.

[Sakkura]

1 minute ago, Space Reptile said:

[Anzexx]

VR just isnt worth it atm like 800€ ? bruh