Why is everybody using such big air cpu coolers?

[Melodist]

Since I planned my transition from Mac Pro to Custom Pc, I've thought a lot about what cpu cooler to use. Amongst the rather unknown and unfelt AiO surge, I would still rather cling to air coolers, as there is no liquid involved. However, it is more than obvious, especially with builds similar to mine, that there are no small coolers involved. Everybody straps on either a Noctua 15s, or Dark Rock 3, which leads to "I buy whatever is the biggest and most expensive". I do get that mostly overclocking is involved, but am I the only person who does not want to overclock their cpu for now? 

 

For example, I've come across the Noctua NH-U12S by visiting pudgetsystem's website and apparently, it is just fine on cpus, such as my 6900k. What I mean by that is simply not fine, but rather unexpectedly outperforming various other, and mostly much bigger coolers, such as the dark rock 2. What are your thoughts on this subject?

 

I wish Linus did a video, comparing a rather ingenious NH-12S for its size and performance against its bigger brethren.

[Enderman]

People are more comfortable with lower temps, but there are tons of people without big heatsinks, that use a 212 evo and get temps in 70-80 range which is still safe.

Depends what you like.

Also the DRP3 looks really good.

[GDRRiley]

they cool well. it should do well.  

 

[AlwaysFSX]

Well do you want your CPU getting toasty? Plus it means a larger fan which can run slower, therefore it can be quieter.

[TheKDub]

7 minutes ago, Melodist said:

Since I planned my transition from Mac Pro to Custom Pc, I've thought a lot about what cpu cooler to use. Amongst the rather unknown and unfelt AiO surge, I would still rather cling to air coolers, as there is no liquid involved. However, it is more than obvious, especially with builds similar to mine, that there are no small coolers involved. Everybody straps on either a Noctua 15s, or Dark Rock 3, which leads to "I buy whatever is the biggest and most expensive". I do get that mostly overclocking is involved, but am I the only person who does not want to overclock their cpu for now? 

 

For example, I've come across the Noctua NH-U12S by visiting pudgetsystem's website and apparently, it is just fine on cpus, such as my 6900k. What I mean by that is simply not fine, but rather unexpectedly outperforming various other, and mostly much bigger coolers, such as the dark rock 2. What are your thoughts on this subject?

 

I wish Linus did a video, comparing a rather ingenious NH-12S for its size and performance against its bigger brethren.

 

The primary reason people tend to go for larger CPU coolers is because of better cooling performance, so fans won't have to work as hard, and noise levels won't be as high.

That and being able to push their CPUs further in overclocking.

[Melodist]

1 minute ago, AlwaysFSX said:

Well do you want your CPU getting toasty? Plus it means a larger fan which can run slower, therefore it can be quieter.

Well why do motherboard manufacturers still rate their products below 500 grams while even the U12s goes beyond that barrier? I mean, on the X99 socket, there isn't even a backplate and coolers use the original for mounting. With the D15 for example, we go beyond 1 kilogram easily, I wish therefore motherboard manufacturers would step up their game and actually rate those bords then higher up if the socket was capable of bearing such a load. When I switched to Apple's Mac Pro, "big" coolers were like 800 grams, including the fan, for Intel's first quad machines.

[Melodist]

2 minutes ago, wrathoftheturkey said:

Lel

 

If you type board several times within a short paragraph structure, it'll become bords.

[Melodist]

17 minutes ago, Enderman said:

People are more comfortable with lower temps, but there are tons of people without big heatsinks, that use a 212 evo and get temps in 70-80 range which is still safe.

Depends what you like.

Also the DRP3 looks really good.

 

I like lower temps as well but is it really cooler? From what I've seen, it isn't, unless you bring out the big guns and strike jimmy with a lightning.

[aisle9]

16 minutes ago, Enderman said:

People are more comfortable with lower temps, but there are tons of people without big heatsinks, that use a 212 evo and get temps in 70-80 range which is still safe.

Depends what you like.

Also the DRP3 looks really good.

Yeah, but, crazy example (and I know you already know this, it's more for illustration), when the single 120mm 212 EVO is screaming like a Delta at 80C, the NH-D15 and its two 140mm fans are purring like a kitten.

 

I think my feelings about Noctua can be summed up with the old limerick: "Not much to look at, but boy can she swim."

[Enderman]

8 minutes ago, Melodist said:

I like lower temps as well but is it really cooler? From what I've seen, it isn't, unless you bring out the big guns and strike jimmy with a lightning.

Yeah. A large heatsink like the NH-D15 is dozens of degrees cooler than a stock heatsink, and several times quieter while doing so.

[AlwaysFSX]

21 minutes ago, Melodist said:

Well why do motherboard manufacturers still rate their products below 500 grams while even the U12s goes beyond that barrier? I mean, on the X99 socket, there isn't even a backplate and coolers use the original for mounting. With the D15 for example, we go beyond 1 kilogram easily, I wish therefore motherboard manufacturers would step up their game and actually rate those bords then higher up if the socket was capable of bearing such a load. When I switched to Apple's Mac Pro, "big" coolers were like 800 grams, including the fan, for Intel's first quad machines.

Zip ties yo

[Ryoutarou97]

2 minutes ago, Melodist said:

I like lower temps as well but is it really cooler? From what I've seen, it isn't, unless you bring out the big guns and strike jimmy with a lightning.

If you have a larger heatsink/more fans, yeah it'll be cooler. The important thing isn't that it's cooler, though, but that it's cooler at the same noise level. A 212 is still probably the best bang for your buck, but the noctua d15 can maintain the same amount of heat dissipation at drastically lower RPMs thus keeping it quieter for the same temperature. If they want it cooler just speed up the fan a bit. To steal a beautifully MS paint-ish graph (ignore axis labels): 

if x axis is RPM and y is cooling, the big cooler is the outermost curve (production possibilities curve is the original, if you're wondering. Macro is so applicable!). At any given x value (RPM) it has higher cooling, or at any y value (cooling) it has lower RPM. Or a mix of the two. 

[Mark77]

I have a Corsair A70 on an i7-2600 (non-k)..  I don't overclock.  Through trial and error I found that at full load it didn't even need a fan to keep itself cool enough in my case.  So I got rid of the fans.  That's why I have a big air cooler. 

[Melodist]

 

 

Well..?

[DunePilot]

They pretty much have to be at least 120mm or 140mm to support a fan... so... they will always at least be that big if you want one that a normal pc fan can fit.

[Melodist]

1 minute ago, DunePilot said:

They pretty much have to be at least 120mm or 140mm to support a fan... so... they will always at least be that big if you want one that a normal pc fan can fit.

Sure but there apparently isn't that much of a difference between the too, at average overclocking it seems?

[jett473]

17 hours ago, Enderman said:

Yeah. A large heatsink like the NH-D15 is dozens of degrees cooler than a stock heatsink, and several times quieter while doing so.

>comparing a aftermarket heat sink to stock cooler

>aftermarket heatsink is nearly $90 USD

>also has 3 fans

 

k, seems fair.

 

 

all jokes aside, the only real reason I personally would go for a super big heatsink w/o OCing is slight sound differences and personal preference. From what I've heard/seen, the 212 evo screams like a bat out of hell under load, so I would go for a smaller one with better fans. (Hell, maybe even get a low profile one, if you'd like.)

 

and like i said, if someone has a windowed side panel, a big heatsink is pretty cool to look at alongside your color coordinated ram, your sexy gpu, and the sleek board and SSDs you've got in your build. Ya know?

[WoodenMarker]

17 hours ago, Melodist said:

Well why do motherboard manufacturers still rate their products below 500 grams while even the U12s goes beyond that barrier? I mean, on the X99 socket, there isn't even a backplate and coolers use the original for mounting. With the D15 for example, we go beyond 1 kilogram easily, I wish therefore motherboard manufacturers would step up their game and actually rate those bords then higher up if the socket was capable of bearing such a load. When I switched to Apple's Mac Pro, "big" coolers were like 800 grams, including the fan, for Intel's first quad machines.

The 500g rating doesn't account for coolers that use a backplate. 

Coolers aren't good just because of their size but the best tend to be the biggest. 

A beefy cooler can also be pretty badass.

[DunePilot]

9 minutes ago, Melodist said:

Sure but there apparently isn't that much of a difference between the too, at average overclocking it seems?

Well they'll be tested to meet a certain temp to say they can dissipate enough heat for a certain TDP. Some do get huge when you start putting a fan on each side though etc. There are smaller options though, especially for ITX cases usually with the fans smaller and horizontal and rated for less TDP.

[Melodist]

1 hour ago, WoodenMarker said:

The 500g rating doesn't account for coolers that use a backplate. 

Coolers aren't good just because of their size but the best tend to be the biggest. 

A beefy cooler can also be pretty badass.

 

 

Well, 2011-3 doesn't use a backplate, yet is still rated to 500...

 

1 hour ago, DunePilot said:

Well they'll be tested to meet a certain temp to say they can dissipate enough heat for a certain TDP. Some do get huge when you start putting a fan on each side though etc. There are smaller options though, especially for ITX cases usually with the fans smaller and horizontal and rated for less TDP.

 

Yeah, a Noctua d15s with one fan is probably smarter than a Noctua u14s with 2 fans, as it equals in weight. But there is usually just a temperature drop of 1-2 degrees with 2 fans...

 

[WoodenMarker]

1 hour ago, Melodist said:

Well, 2011-3 doesn't use a backplate, yet is still rated to 500...

does*

I'm not sure why it's listed as that. They might have just been lazy and it's probably a good idea to just ignore that specification. It might be referring to mounting to the board without using the built in backplate though.

 

[Melodist]

22 minutes ago, WoodenMarker said:

does*

I'm not sure why it's listed as that. They might have just been lazy and it's probably a good idea to just ignore that specification. It might be referring to mounting to the board without using the built in backplate though.

 

 

Yes sorry, I meant it already comes with a backplate but is still rated for 500g coolers.

[rmurad38]

I guess I'll tell my personal story to add to this discussion.

 

Out of necessity I needed to find a very small cooler. I wanted to do a Mini-ITX build centered around a 6700k and I settled on the EVGA Hadron Air case. With such a tiny form factor (169x305x308mm) I knew my cooler choices would be limited. Perhaps a lack? of research pointed me to the Noctua NH-L9x65, a nice (and expensive) low profile cooler at 65x95x95mm:

 

 

My idle and standard use temps weren't terrible, If I recall, upper 40's to low 50's, but under full load (like a stress test or video encoding) my temps shot up to the mid to upper 80's almost immediately. While the CPU never thermal throttled, I didn't like all that heat.

 

I later discovered that the L9 was rated for a 65w cpu. The 6700k is a 91w part. My mistake! I RMA'd that cooler but decided I still wanted to go with Noctua.

I found the NH-U6S, much larger, well taller than the previous heatsink at 125x95x95mm but the shortest tower style cooler I could find at the time at just 125mm. Perfect considering how narrow (169mm) the Hadron Air case is:

 

With this cooler, my idle temps are now in the low to mid 30's and under load I've not seen any warmer than the low 70's. Also, even though it was quiet, the fan frequently spun to the max on the first cooler, now I pretty much never notice the fan.

 

 

TL;DR: So to echo everyone else here, faster CPUs run hot, Bigger heat sinks dissipate more heat which allow for of course lower temps OR lower noise at the same temp, or a bit of both as I saw first hand.

 

EDIT: I forgot to chime in on the whole weight thing. Even my small NH-U9S tips the scales at 618g with the fan. Many people suggest that if a machine is to be shipped, the heat sink should probably be removed. The GPU should be too as they weigh far more than most heat sinks and are plugged into the far more mechanically weaker PCIe slot, (but that's a topic for another discussion) Personally what I do is to be sure if I'm bringing the PC anywhere, I place the case on its side so weight is being pressed down onto the motherboard vs. pulling away from it. I've done this for years and never had an issue.

[LogicalDrm]

There's nothing wrong with small coolers. Not even when you decide to OC. Budget coolers like 212 and Pure Rock are just fine for small OC. The main reason why you see so many bigger coolers for higher end builds is because question which is asked goes "what is best air cooler". There are only so many answers and none of them is small.

 

I picked my current because price difference with U12S was like 10e. And because I like Noctua and U9B before. I looked other coolers like be Quiet! and Xigmatek ones, but difference with cooling performance, price and noise was all for Noctua. If I could repick right now, it would still be Noctua. But possibly either U12S or C14. Because I want more options on picking case. Not easy to find cases with 165mm clearance.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

On 9/28/2016 at 2:14 AM, Melodist said:

Since I planned my transition from Mac Pro to Custom Pc, I've thought a lot about what cpu cooler to use. Amongst the rather unknown and unfelt AiO surge, I would still rather cling to air coolers, as there is no liquid involved. However, it is more than obvious, especially with builds similar to mine, that there are no small coolers involved. Everybody straps on either a Noctua 15s, or Dark Rock 3, which leads to "I buy whatever is the biggest and most expensive". I do get that mostly overclocking is involved, but am I the only person who does not want to overclock their cpu for now? 

 

It's a legacy thing, similar to what happens with high wattage PSUs (something LTT's video omitted): computers used to get faster, hotter, and more power hungry over time. I remember a PSU advertising compatibility with 10-pin GPU connectors in case they ever were released for "futureproofness". Of course, that never happened, because at some point GPUs started to be more powerful while using less current.

Similarly, CPU coolers kept getting beefier over time, as CPUs became more demanding, running more cores at higher speeds. But at some point power efficiently improved faster than speed, leading to decreases in TDP as new CPUs were released. And just like you may still feel inclined to buy a 1200W PSU for SLI or whatever, and it won't really hurt you (unless you really have a low power system, due to efficiency losses) other than in the wallet, you can also strap the same cooler you used to overclock your 140W CPU into a modern 7X-8X W CPU at stock speeds and it won't hurt you, it's just overkill.

Intel's mainstream line will probably run dead-silent at stock speeds on a $40 heatsink; overclocking is a different story.

18 hours ago, DunePilot said:

They pretty much have to be at least 120mm or 140mm to support a fan... so... they will always at least be that big if you want one that a normal pc fan can fit.

Not really, they could use smaller fans as many coolers do (92mm, 80mm, 60mm as many stock coolers, etc).