Michael Pachter: PCMR are arrogant, twits, and racist

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Misanthrope said:

It still has nothing to do with race. At worst he throwed the term lightly to be inflammatory and antagonistic as all fucking shit. Again this is much worst if we realize we woke up today to another set of riots and violence being experienced due to people on both sides of the race debate using a powerful term lightly and carelessly for political gain.

 

But well I don't think we disagree much on the matter tbh let's move on.

As I said, I agree so yes, we can move on from that point.

[DarkBlade2117]

16 minutes ago, NinjaJc01 said:

I didn't really enjoy it, but I wasn't playing it with friends, which seems like it might be better.

Once you somewhat of an idea of what you're doing it is super fun, solo can be really annoying though once you start noticing what people do wrong.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Atmos said:

 

400$ or less you say?

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/NJGGJV

360$ and delivers a better gaming experience than the consoles. That and you don't have to pay for online connectivity such as psn or xbl, not to mention the games are far cheaper on the pc.

 

You're a tech enthusiast just like most others on this forum, you and I both know that building a pc is NOT hard. The only people who claim it is, are the people too god damn lazy to watch a 5min video. And as for simplicity? What about clicking through prompts selecting "yes" or "next" is hard? What about that isn't simple? If people are claiming that its too hard, or too technical, then they obviously have never done it.

 

And today installing games couldn't be easier. You literally click two buttons in steam, and done; almost exactly like a console. And want to just install a disk into the system and play on that like a console, you can do the same exact thing on the pc if you go out and buy a disk from a store. Both consoles and pc's will install that disk when you load it in, or download updates automatically. if its available on steam.

 

Nothing about it is complex any more, the only people claiming it is, are people who've never bothered to even try, so as far as I'm concerned their opinions on that matter don't count for shit.

You just did the exact fallacy I was expecting:

 

Cost of Windows: $0

"Windows from Kinguin"

 

Kinguin is just as bad as G2A. If you live in a western country. you should budget for a legit copy of Windows from a legit source. That means $100.

 

Buying a Windows key off of Kinguin or G2A is almost as bad as pirating it - in fact, in some ways it's worse. Microsoft sure doesn't see much, if any, profit from you buying that key off of Kinguin.

 

If you're gonna make a "Console comparison", then do so using a real apples to apples comparison. That means Retail Pricing for Windows.

 

Furthermore, that PC isn't that great. The form factor isn't even remotely close to that of a console, and if you want to do "Couch Gaming", you need to add on the price of a Controller too.

 

The difficulty of building a gaming PC isn't the problem. People that are Doctors or Engineers can be Console Gamers - not because they're stupid, but because they don't want to go through the effort of building a PC. Of installing Windows, Drivers, all the software, configuring everything, downloading and launching a game, having issues, downloading a new driver - nope didn't fix the problem, download a different driver, etc etc etc.

 

These are hassles that most of us PC Gamers simply live with, and don't care about.

 

But if I do care about them, then that doesn't make me ignorant because I value simplicity over cost.

[Misanthrope]

8 minutes ago, Atmos said:

 

400$ or less you say?

http://pcpartpicker.com/list/NJGGJV

360$ and delivers a better gaming experience than the consoles. That and you don't have to pay for online connectivity such as psn or xbl, not to mention the games are far cheaper on the pc.

 

More rambling below

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You're a tech enthusiast just like most others on this forum, you and I both know that building a pc is NOT hard. The only people who claim it is, are the people too god damn lazy to watch a 5min video. And as for simplicity? What about clicking through prompts selecting "yes" or "next" is hard? What about that isn't simple? If people are claiming that its too hard, or too technical, then they obviously have never done it.

 

And today installing games couldn't be easier. You literally click two buttons in steam, and done; almost exactly like a console. And want to just install a disk into the system and play on that like a console, you can do the same exact thing on the pc if you go out and buy a disk from a store. Both consoles and pc's will install that disk when you load it in, or download updates automatically. if its available on steam.

 

Nothing about it is complex any more, the only people claiming it is, are people who've never bothered to even try, so as far as I'm concerned their opinions on that matter don't count for shit.

 

I'm not going to keep facts to a minimum though. Just like any other fact, it doesn't matter how people feel about it, fact's dont need your approval, they simply need to be known.

Pretty sure the PS4 can beat a potato like the AMD 360 though. You should have fitted at least a 460 on that rig.

 

But to answer @dalekphalm your reply it's only partially accurate: Steam OS is free and has enough games to be a decent proposition at actually 0 for the OS. More over, there are legit, non-gray area (or grey area but relatively harmless) ways to get a windows key like just lifting it something like an old laptop or desktop not being used and such. MS has no problem reactivating such keys for the most part.

[suicidalfranco]

good thing that rags already tackled the racism argument

 

now excuse me, but i have a lan party to attend to at my local neo nazi gathering 

[Atmos]

9 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

You just did the exact fallacy I was expecting:

 

Cost of Windows: $0

"Windows from Kinguin"

 

Kinguin is just as bad as G2A. If you live in a western country. you should budget for a legit copy of Windows from a legit source. That means $100.

 

Buying a Windows key off of Kinguin or G2A is almost as bad as pirating it - in fact, in some ways it's worse. Microsoft sure doesn't see much, if any, profit from you buying that key off of Kinguin.

 

If you're gonna make a "Console comparison", then do so using a real apples to apples comparison. That means Retail Pricing for Windows.

 

Furthermore, that PC isn't that great. The form factor isn't even remotely close to that of a console, and if you want to do "Couch Gaming", you need to add on the price of a Controller too.

 

The difficulty of building a gaming PC isn't the problem. People that are Doctors or Engineers can be Console Gamers - not because they're stupid, but because they don't want to go through the effort of building a PC. Of installing Windows, Drivers, all the software, configuring everything, downloading and launching a game, having issues, downloading a new driver - nope didn't fix the problem, download a different driver, etc etc etc.

 

These are hassles that most of us PC Gamers simply live with, and don't care about.

 

But if I do care about them, then that doesn't make me ignorant because I value simplicity over cost.

The overwhelming majority of kinguin and g2a copies of windows are legitimate. Whether or not microsoft sees profit from it makes 0 difference at all. If you want to claim that they are invalid because microsoft doesn't see the profit, then i guess any second hand game, or accessory, or console is also completely invalid because sony/mc don't see that profit either.

The copy of the Os was purchased from microsoft at one point or another, whether or not its being resold is completely beside the point. 

 

I've never known form factor to matter more for some reason when it comes to console arguments. almost any time, if you have space for a console, you have space for a slightly larger tower, and if you want, that build supports microatx, so you could get an even smaller case.

 

There is a point that you do have more prompts to click through on a pc than on a console, which is why in my original post I even said that "9 times out of 10" because there's always going to be one person too lazy to put in 10 minutes of effort to get a better experience.

 

4 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Pretty sure the PS4 can beat a potato like the AMD 360 though. You should have fitted at least a 460 on that rig.

 

But to answer @dalekphalm your reply it's only partially accurate: Steam OS is free and has enough games to be a decent proposition at actually 0 for the OS. More over, there are legit, non-gray area (or grey area but relatively harmless) ways to get a windows key like just lifting it something like an old laptop or desktop not being used and such. MS has no problem reactivating such keys for the most part.

The 360 actually performs quite well. Medium and low settings, just like a console, you can easily manage 60fps at 1080p in most triple a games, a far fetch from the ps4s abysmal 30fps on the same settings at 968/1080p.

 

[Notional]

Get this hate speech off of gaming, get this hate speech off of gaming *heart attack*

 

What an idiot. What is his point? Can PC gamers play online with console players? No, because patches costs money on consoles, so they get fewer and later patches. Also in any game where aiming is a thing, the console players would get rekt. So what else can PC players do? Buy an expensive piece of hardware that gives a sub par experience? Sub 30fps gameplay, FOV under 90 70. No, it's consoles that buy up devs to make console exclusive games, and refuses to release good PC ports, unless they financially are forced to #QuantumBreak.

 

It's not that we won't partake in console gaming, it's that consoles don't allow it.

 

Also anyone taking PCMR seriously are utterly retarded #CulturalMarxist. Seriously it comes from satirical reviews.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

Pretty sure the PS4 can beat a potato like the AMD 360 though. You should have fitted at least a 460 on that rig.

 

But to answer @dalekphalm your reply it's only partially accurate: Steam OS is free and has enough games to be a decent proposition at actually 0 for the OS. More over, there are legit, non-gray area (or grey area but relatively harmless) ways to get a windows key like just lifting it something like an old laptop or desktop not being used and such. MS has no problem reactivating such keys for the most part.

SteamOS is not a legit replacement for a console OS or a PC OS.

 

Yes, it plays games. And yes, quite a few AAA games are being released on SteamOS.

 

But not all of them. Many, in fact, are missing.

 

But that's not even the point: Non-gaming tasks. The Console is used by most people as a smartTV, Netflix, watching DVD's, videos over your network, etc. SteamOS out of the box doesn't really do any of that. And yes, while it's based on Debian, it doesn't have the full desktop pre-installed, and even if it did, you'd have to go through the hassle of setting up and installing all those programs, and then using the Desktop UI.

 

It certainly can be done, but you're stacking the deck in your favour.

1 hour ago, Atmos said:

The overwhelming majority of kinguin and g2a copies of windows are legitimate. Whether or not microsoft sees profit from it makes 0 difference at all. If you want to claim that they are invalid because microsoft doesn't see the profit, then i guess any second hand game, or accessory, or console is also completely invalid because sony/mc don't see that profit either.

The copy of the Os was purchased from microsoft at one point or another, whether or not its being resold is completely beside the point. 

 

I've never known form factor to matter more for some reason when it comes to console arguments. almost any time, if you have space for a console, you have space for a slightly larger tower, and if you want, that build supports microatx, so you could get an even smaller case.

 

There is a point that you do have more prompts to click through on a pc than on a console, which is why in my original post I even said that "9 times out of 10" because there's always going to be one person too lazy to put in 10 minutes of effort to get a better experience.

 

The 360 actually performs quite well. Medium and low settings, just like a console, you can easily manage 60fps at 1080p in most triple a games, a far fetch from the ps4s abysmal 30fps on the same settings at 968/1080p.

 

Most of them might be legal, but I don't know about legitimate. Most of the keys are going to end up being from places like MSDN, Dreamspark, etc. It's explicitly against the terms of use to resell those keys, but people do anyway. This is the EXACT reason why Microsoft shutdown the TechNet program, because people were selling the keys for profit. Which sucks, because TechNet was fantastic for IT Professionals to learn and test Microsoft software.

 

Your analogy is flawed and doesn't make sense. I'm not talking about used keys. These are not keys that were bought, used, then resold. These are keys that were acquired, often through programs that are designed for education or learning (Dreamspark and MSDN, among other things). And that's at best.

 

You've got people reselling keys from third world countries to (comparatively) wealthy Westerners. You've got people who bought a thousand keys using a stolen credit card, then proceed to sell those keys on G2A, Kinguin, Reddit, etc. This, by the way, actually costs Microsoft money, since they have to pay the fees when the credit card charges are inevitably reversed (A "Chargeback").

 

So no, Microsoft doesn't always see a profit from these keys. Some, yes. But when they sell a Windows key in a low-economy country at a loss to help combat rampant piracy and lower wages, and then that key gets resold to an American who makes over $30K a year? That's bad for the industry, and it's bad for consumers in the long run.

 

As for form factor - it matters to some, and not to others. Aesthetics also play an important role. Some people have really sweet looking home theatre setups, with nice AV boxes (DVD Player/Blu-Ray Player, Receiver/Amp, etc), and putting a PC Tower beside it can ruin the aesthetic. Some people want to match the aesthetic, and say what you will, but the consoles do a decent job of that. There are some VERY slick HTPC cases out there for PC's too, like some really good Silverstone ones, among others.

 

And if you don't personally care about form factor and/or aesthetic, that's fine. But a lot of people do. So you can't just immediately dismiss it simply because you're not the target demographic.

 

As for your last point, about putting in 10 extra minutes - it's a hell of a lot more than 10 extra minutes in the long run. It's added effort when some people just want to sit down and go. No, consoles aren't perfect (neither are PC's), but they do this better. Yes, you still have to install the games now, but all you do is pop the disc in, click the install prompt, and in a couple minutes, you're ready to go. No need to mess around with drivers or other complexities.

 

So again, some people value that simplicity, and others don't.

 

This is what I don't get about PCMR. I love choice. I've been building gaming PC's for years, and will continue to. I've also owned a 360, among other older consoles. A Console is just one more choice in your gaming experience. WHO GIVES A SHIT if someone likes the benefits of a console, and values things that you do not.

 

That's what's so great about 2016 - we have a lot of fucking choice right now. I can choose to build a sweet Windows gaming rig. Or I can go out and buy a Steam Machine (lol), or I can go buy that slick Mac that will look really great in my office, and game on the side. Or I can custom build a rig from the ground up and install Ubuntu on it, and game that way. Or I can buy any number of different consoles.

 

PCMR should be supporting and celebrating choice - even if someone chooses something besides a PC. It's their choice, and until PC's can make gaming as hassle free as Consoles, that choice will remain a valid one.

[Misanthrope]

4 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

SteamOS is not a legit replacement for a console OS or a PC OS.

 

Yes, it plays games. And yes, quite a few AAA games are being released on SteamOS.

 

But not all of them. Many, in fact, are missing.

 

But that's not even the point:

No actually your point was never "Windows is not as user friendly as console" because I agree: it's not. Steam OS is less so. Your point was just "It's disengenious to pretend windows is cheap or free to win an argument about a PC being as cheap as a console" which is well, not true at all.

 

Both options are not as user friendly, not as simple to operate and use. But that's never the problem, that's an acceptable trade off to supporting console walled gardens, that is all that needs to be said on the subject this line of reasoning seems like pointless derailing to me.

 

Quote

This is what I don't get about PCMR. I love choice. I've been building gaming PC's for years, and will continue to. I've also owned a 360, among other older consoles. A Console is just one more choice in your gaming experience

It's not: it's giving money and supporting companies that actively work to REMOVE choice by making exclusivity deals, being overzealous with DRM, controlling pricing, etc. Yes you have a personal choice to go game on consoles but by doing so you're morally and financially supporting a model that wants to extinguish all the freedom you can find on PC gaming.

 

[ThinkWithPortals]

Who is Michael Pachter and why should I give a damn what he thinks?

[AresKrieger]

[Space Reptile]

can someone bring me up to speed who Michael Pacther is? 

 

someone fax him this 

[DocSwag]

Guys ever heard of this guy called Micheal Pachter? He's such a racist and arrogant twit...

 

Please don't kill me. I'm still so young.

[Shakaza]

27 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

someone fax him this 

-ugly snip-

No. Seriously, why haven't people gotten tired of this crap yet? For the people who use it in satire, it's annoying, and for the people who take it seriously and look down on others, it's idiotic.

 

I know most of this Michael Pachter's points regarding this topic are dumb, but you guys really aren't helping your case right now. Ugh.

 

Did anyone ever think that console users wouldn't have become so defensive about their choices if someone didn't start the PCMR junk, even in jest? They sometimes willfully ignore the benefits of PCs because the PC gamers are always telling them that they made the wrong choice, which makes them feel stupid, and it's really difficult to admit, but we keep driving the point home that they are stupid and should learn from the wise, sagely PC community. Even being on the inside of the group it feels exclusive.

 

Not even ONCE have I seen someone recommend a PC over a console in a way that conveys that he or she legitimately cares about the console user's experience. It's always get a PC because of some reasons, and act like it's something everyone should know, and if you don't know, you're an idiot. It's probably not what most people want to get across, but it certainly seems that way. Another thing is that it's always about making the "right" choice. No one seems to care that different people value different things or that some benefit for one user means nothing to another. For once, would it be too hard for PC gamers to list the unbiased facts about consoles versus PCs and let the user decide for himself what the best choice is?

 

Edit: The "not ONCE" bit may be a little exaggerated. It still happens quite rarely, however.

[Nowak]

12 hours ago, Space Reptile said:

can someone bring me up to speed who Michael Pacther is? 

A video game market analyst who doesn't understand the video game market.

[Notional]

56 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Snip..

Problem with your point is that anyone with a "cheaper" console still needs a regular computer either way. As well as a TV/monitor with HDMI. So consoles can easily end up being more expensive anyways. Bickering about the OS cost is peanuts compared.

[ace_cheaply]

18 minutes ago, Shakaza said:

No. Seriously, why haven't people gotten tired of this crap yet? For the people who use it in satire, it's annoying, and for the people who take it seriously and look down on others, it's idiotic.

Get a sense of humor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shakaza]

1 minute ago, ace_cheaply said:

Get a sense of humor.

 

-snip-

 

-snippity-

 

-snip-

 

-snip

 

 

Well, I could, but I also could ignore you and these images beyond expressing my opinion of them, and look! Problem solved! Amazing how that happens sometimes...

[dalekphalm]

6 minutes ago, Notional said:

Problem with your point is that anyone with a "cheaper" console still needs a regular computer either way. As well as a TV/monitor with HDMI. So consoles can easily end up being more expensive anyways. Bickering about the OS cost is peanuts compared.

It might be peanuts compared to the total amount of money spent, but it's still an important detail that many people overlook.

 

Furthermore, many people already have computers - in the form of a laptop. You ain't slapping a GTX 1080 inside their 2013 Acer Aspire.

 

For people who already have a laptop - which, let's be honest, is a lot of people - they would be building from the ground up, regardless of whether they go Console or Gaming PC.

 

For someone who is getting their very first computer? Then yes, you need to consider the option of just overbuilding it into a decent gaming PC, vs buying a console.

[ace_cheaply]

1 minute ago, Shakaza said:

Well, I could, but I also could ignore you and these images beyond expressing my opinion of them, and look! Problem solved! Amazing how that happens sometimes...

I chuckled at the snippity.  Good stuff.  And yeah, here we go, hybrid race ftw .  Fricking wii sports of all things is some of the most fun i've had gaming, sitting around with a bunch of friends. 

 

[Trik'Stari]

I don't know who this man is, but he's not worth listening to. His only argument for buying a PS4 Pro is that PC Gamers are "racists"?

 

Insults, are the sign of someone with no other argument to make. The only reason to buy a PS4 is:

 

1. friends who own them and not PC's (which okay fine, but you should still try and advise them that a PC is a better solution in the long term)

2. exclusives, which IIRC no longer matter because Sony is going to release all of their games on PC as well as PS4.

 

So...... yeah. He's just not worth listening to. This isn't really even news to be honest.

 

Also.....who the fuck is this guy anyways?

[NumLock21]

PCMR

Pizza Crust Master Race!

Parmesan Cheese Master Race! 

[Suika]

I understand, I dislike the PC Mustard Race, there are a few too many rotten eggs for me to find anybody who identifies with them credible, but this guy is taking this way too far.

 

I feel like he's just trying to boil some blood for views. Didn't bother to click the article for that reason.

[PCIsMasterRace]

*Gasp*

[Beskamir]

Not surprising considering he went to the University of Florida  

 

Ad hominem fallacy aside though, I don't understand why he is taking the PCMR thing which is very clearly a joke as something that's somehow serious.