Apple Announces the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus

[skywake]

1 hour ago, Belmont31R said:

For the headphone jack...rarely used it, and while you all complain now just wait a year or two when suddenly there are a ton of USB C and Lightening options out there. Everyone complains Apple doesn't innovate...here you go. Time to create new stuff or get left behind. The iPhone wagon is moving and you will all sheepishly accept it once Samsung does their usual and uses the iPhone launch as a guide to their next shitty Galaxy.

But why? What's the advantage?

 

I'd argue that listening to music is the second biggest use-case for smartphones. Behind using it as a communication tool. Even if you don't store half your music collection on your phone anymore you're still using Spotify, Apple Music or Google Play. Removing the headphone jack removes a fundamental bit of I/O for that fundamental task the device performs. Which they're now going to charge you $10US for as an optional extra. Oh, but you have to take your phone off the charger first! 

 

And you want to argue that those headphones will exist soon enough. Well ok, but here's my issue with that. What about the headphones I already have? What about connecting the phone to an old stereo or something? Sure bluetooth is a thing in the case of the latter and I could get adaptors. But why should I have to? What advantage do I get out of having less options? Why can't I use the same set of headphones on my phone out of the box that I can use on literally every portable device I've ever owned? Wireless headphones can and do exist even with the headphone jack remaining a thing.

 

I'll admit that I'm not the target audience for this. I like listening to music on my phone so Apple hasn't really been a good option for a while. The lack of micro-SD card expansion is a huge turn-off to someone who wants to store their own music on their phone. So is the fact that Apple doesn't really like to play well with services outside of its ecosystem. Google Play on Android can cast to Sonos and scrobble to last.fm, Apple Music on iOS does neither. But removing the headphone jack? I'm sorry, what company was this again?

 

 

Not the same one it used to be

[asim1999]

4 hours ago, Anir said:

Good to see apple upgrade to quad core, finally some good multitasking :-)

It's their own version of the bigLITTLE system that has been used on android for many years 

[asim1999]

2 hours ago, dtaflorida said:

AirPods... omg I want them.

You will want them, get them and then lose them 

[Bsmith]

quite disappointing that is whole event was set up for just the iPhone 7, apple is really going the right way when it comes to completely forgetting their laptop/macbook line up. most people are already annoyed enough by the fact that there are 2y+ old CPU's inside.

I personally find the removal of the headphone jack a non-issue for myself since I'm in a condition where I'm forced to use bluetooth anyway(with a device that is only apple certified sadly) so there is that for me, but I can see why it annoys other people, this either requires you to use an adapter which(said before) can make stuff more complicated and be a pain in the dataport or you go to wireless, which is no option for audiophiles.
There is indeed some courage needed to leave such an old (and kinda outdated) standard, but stuff like that drives the market forward, people are saying that apple stopped innovating or pushing new things as the first, well now they did, but they didn't really do it properly if you ask me.

[skywake]

28 minutes ago, Bsmith said:

There is indeed some courage needed to leave such an old (and kinda outdated) standard, but stuff like that drives the market forward, people are saying that apple stopped innovating or pushing new things as the first, well now they did, but they didn't really do it properly if you ask me.

Well there's moving the industry forward and then there's removing stuff that was actually useful.

 

When we went from serial connectors to USB we didn't lose anything. USB actually brought quite a lot to the table including the ability to power devices. When we went from analogue media to digital media we didn't lose anything. We actually gained the ability to skip to particular sections automatically. When we swapped from physical media to digital we didn't lose anything. Again, we gained a lot in the form of convenience and more flexible business models. 

 

Probably the most disruptive thing Apple did before this was the iPhone. They decided not to have physical buttons but instead went with a multi-touch display. And you know what? We didn't really lose anything. The buttons were still there and they didn't cost extra, they were just virtual buttons now. And in exchange for that we got quite a lot. We got an entirely new style of phone which has rightfully become the standard.

 

Removing the headphone jack? We don't get anything out of that. Any proprietary headphones they could make could exist even if the headphone jack remained. They argue that they're doing this so they can have extra space in the phone. But since when are phones bulky? Removing a thing is not innovative. It's kinda like how you can get laptops without an Ethernet jack. You can argue reasons why the laptop lacks the Ethernet jack if you want... but don't call it a feature.

[VerticalDiscussions]

[Bsmith]

1 hour ago, skywake said:

Well there's moving the industry forward and then there's removing stuff that was actually useful.

 

When we went from serial connectors to USB we didn't lose anything. USB actually brought quite a lot to the table including the ability to power devices. When we went from analogue media to digital media we didn't lose anything. We actually gained the ability to skip to particular sections automatically. When we swapped from physical media to digital we didn't lose anything. Again, we gained a lot in the form of convenience and more flexible business models. 

 

Probably the most disruptive thing Apple did before this was the iPhone. They decided not to have physical buttons but instead went with a multi-touch display. And you know what? We didn't really lose anything. The buttons were still there and they didn't cost extra, they were just virtual buttons now. And in exchange for that we got quite a lot. We got an entirely new style of phone which has rightfully become the standard.

 

Removing the headphone jack? We don't get anything out of that. Any proprietary headphones they could make could exist even if the headphone jack remained. They argue that they're doing this so they can have extra space in the phone. But since when are phones bulky? Removing a thing is not innovative. It's kinda like how you can get laptops without an Ethernet jack. You can argue reasons why the laptop lacks the Ethernet jack if you want... but don't call it a feature.

 

Moving forward can also be about removing stuff, for example optical drive bays in PC cases, yes they got nearly obsolete due to the internet, but what if your internet is down or you want to watch movie from a disk that you have around? Well, then we have an external version with an adapter just like the case here, something that isn't used by everyone get's removed from the product and for those that want there is an adapter. We (techies, LTT people etc) might prefer headphones with a cable, but how many people these days use headphones that are wireless or semi wireless? the same goes for earbuds, what do people prefer a wire or wireless connectivity?
I personally see an increasing demand in wireless options, so the headphone jack will become obsolete if it keeps going that way.
Phones aren't bulky indeed, but did you ever see how tightly packed the inside's are of those things? There is sometimes only a few millimeter room for improvement, so if you want to do something new or put in a bigger battery other stuff needs to be thrown out, now ask yourself what would you remove?

 

37 minutes ago, Jack_of_all_Trades said:

Cause innovation is usually connected with adding new shit or changing something for the better , say the fingerprint scanner, not removing existing ones without any good reason.

innovation is simply defined as bringing a new idea to the table.
admitted apple isn't the first to do this, some chinese brand did it earlier this year, but does anyone remember them?

[ShadowCaptain]

7 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

 

 

The phone is ONLY water resistant IP67, which means NOTHING. All phones are water resistant. We all used our phone, or aged old MP3 player at the time when it is raining, or drop it on snow, etc. The Galaxy S7 is water IP68, pretty much water proof, making ideal for using your phone in your shower, or under water as you swim

 

The camera is also unimpressive, it is about the same as the old one which is pretty pathetic for a phone at this price range. Just about any premium phone, even Microsoft Lumia 950 / 950 XL destroys Apple best offering, and that is almost 1 year old phone, and cheaper.

 

IP67 is 1m for 30 minutes, so still pretty waterproof and not that much worse than IP68

 

 

the 6s camera is already really good, and the 7 looks better in every way, property 5 axis image stabilisation for smooth video and to help slow shutter speeds, really good 4K video and slow nothing 

 

dunno how the hell its "unimpressive" eapecially as you have never used or seen it

 

wouldn't surprise me if it becomes the best smartphone  camera on launch 

 

 

the new display is not OLED but it does have cinema wide gamut !

 

also the phone will be insanely powerful for games better battery life than before (my 6 generally lasts a day of normal use)

 

 

honestly I'm pretty stoked 

 

the new watch too 

[skywake]

56 minutes ago, Bsmith said:

Moving forward can also be about removing stuff, for example optical drive bays in PC cases, yes they got nearly obsolete due to the internet, but what if your internet is down or you want to watch movie from a disk that you have around? Well, then we have an external version with an adapter just like the case here, something that isn't used by everyone get's removed from the product and for those that want there is an adapter. We (techies, LTT people etc) might prefer headphones with a cable, but how many people these days use headphones that are wireless or semi wireless? the same goes for earbuds, what do people prefer a wire or wireless connectivity?
I personally see an increasing demand in wireless options, so the headphone jack will become obsolete if it keeps going that way.

I don't think it's comparable to optical drives for a few reasons.

 

For a start reading optical media is far less important on PCs than using headphones on a smartphone is. The argument is that people are using wireless headphones now more than ever and that's probably true. But they're still using headphones. Software on PCs stopped being delivered on disks pretty much entirely. Even if you buy boxed software in a physical shop that has a disk in it you can still just download it. Most software you buy in a shop is actually just a code. It's not really true for headphones. Looking at a local tech retailer's website they have 330 headphones and about 100 of them are wireless/bluetooth. And most of the really good ones are wired rather than wireless.

 

The second point I'd make is that an external optical drive doesn't limit you much at all. Usually if you have a PC or a laptop and you're needing to read/write to optical media you're at a desk. Especially if it's a desktop PC. And the drive itself still works exactly the same. There's no downside to going that route and in exchange for that you can get a significantly smaller case. Removing the headphone jack does have compromises. If you want to use regular headphones on the iPhone 7 you have to make two compromises. You have to have an external DAC which will add a lot more bulk than an internal one would. It's also another thing to lose. You also have to live with the fact that you can't charge your phone. So unlike the optical bay thing there are real compromises here.

 

As for this last point about size. Well here's the thing, they have two SKUs here and one of them is bigger. Neither of them have the headphone jack. If we were talking about a cheap, low end model with a small screen I could understand. But these are premium devices with fairly large screens.

[Castdeath97]

8 hours ago, Dionyz said:

All of apple products will become slower as newer updates release. Here is how the iphone 4s got wrecked by the updates.

 

 

No suprises, it's a 4 year phone by iOS 9. Changes alone with the GUI are more than enough to slow it down.

[Linus_torvalds]

1 hour ago, Bsmith said:

something that isn't used by everyone get's removed from the product and for those that want there is an adapter.

Stop there. Who does not use 3.5 jack?  

[Linus_torvalds]

http://appleplugs.com

[Fetzie]

2 hours ago, Bsmith said:

 

Moving forward can also be about removing stuff, for example optical drive bays in PC cases, yes they got nearly obsolete due to the internet, but what if your internet is down or you want to watch movie from a disk that you have around? Well, then we have an external version with an adapter just like the case here, something that isn't used by everyone get's removed from the product and for those that want there is an adapter.

Except the 3.5mm jack has such a wide industry adoption that this is like killing off the optical disk drive in 1996, not 2016.

 

This isn't a move that will cause a revolution in the market, because the "new" standard is an Apple proprietary connector that nobody else is allowed to use, even if they wanted to.

[Trixanity]

5 minutes ago, mate_mate91 said:

http://appleplugs.com

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Bsmith]

30 minutes ago, mate_mate91 said:

Stop there. Who does not use 3.5 jack?  

 

I don't, my speakers are wireless, my headphones got the big connector, my speakers use dolby connection and I use a special device to listen too music through my hearing aids through bluetooth.

 

18 minutes ago, Fetzie said:

Except the 3.5mm jack has such a wide industry adoption that this is like killing off the optical disk drive in 1996, not 2016.

 

This isn't a move that will cause a revolution in the market, because the "new" standard is an Apple proprietary connector that nobody else is allowed to use, even if they wanted to.

 

or a simple adapter that costs $9.00(or cheaper from 3rd party when they come) if you want to keep using your wired earbuds/headphones.

[Bittenfleax]

I thought BT 5 would be implemented, no? 

 

Unless it is capable and they release it software side when BT 5 is at its full?!

[Bouzoo]

6 hours ago, Belmont31R said:

Everyone complains Apple doesn't innovate...here you go. Time to create new stuff or get left behind. The iPhone wagon is moving and you will all sheepishly accept it once Samsung does their usual and uses the iPhone launch as a guide to their next shitty Galaxy.

If we're gonna go there, Apple didn't inovate, Lenovo did it before them 3 months ago. 

 

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/06/09/moto-z-doesnt-3-5mm-headphone-jack/

[DocSwag]

10 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Honestly.. in these days.. no one cares about benchmarks. Phone CPUs/GPUs are powerful enougth. It all comes down to OS optimization. Android got massively better, now Android on low end phones providing you a super fast and fluid experience is a thing, Windows Phone has shown in the past and still showing that a 150$ phone can give you the same fast and responsive experience as an iPhone, and that was back then. Everything runs fine these days. So there is no point.

That's probably true for the majority of people, but I for one care about benchmarks. For storage, it's because I want my apps to launch faster. For CPUs and GPUs, it's because when I'm gaming on my smartphone I don't want low fps (currently on my OP2 playing something like Smashy Road: Wanted for a minute or two will cause the fps to dip down to what feels like 10-15 fps). Though for most people the latter probably doesn't matter.

 

Note though: My dad's phone is in fact a 100-150 dollar phone. I tried it out, and it literally takes a couple of seconds to launch an app, some things are super slow, to the point where it feels like I'm using a computer with an hdd that has 5 years of crap in it. It also is STILL running KitKat. The built in GPS is also horrible. I honestly don't know why; it's probably mostly because it's just a bad phone (it only has 2 gb of storage available for example but I got him a Microsd card). So some 150 dollar android phones do still deliver crappy experiences. Though tbh a moto g would probably have been a better buy. I'm just saying that some cheap phones (but not all) out there are pieces of crap  

[Bouzoo]

2 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

honestly I'm pretty stoked 

You got me there

2 hours ago, ShadowCaptain said:

the new watch too 

You lost me there

[ShadowCaptain]

Just now, Bouzoo said:

You got me there

You lost me there

I like the Apple Watch and the new one seems a good upgrade specially being waterproof 

 

but even the old gen one now, £269 is pretty good 

[DocSwag]

8 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

It's big/little config, so might still be a dual-core for all intensive purposes. 

I think that's what everyone's assuming, that only two cores are active at any one time, but it still has advantages (the big cores can be more powerful because they can "borrow" some of the power the little cores save, overall battery life is improved because of the little cores).

[Calavaro]

8 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

It's big/little config, so might still be a dual-core for all intensive purposes. 

For all intents and purposes.

[Doobeedoo]

Jet black looks amazing though! If I was buying the phone I'd get that one, even it says it's prone to scratches more. Also awesome maximum storage capacity you can get.

[Fetzie]

48 minutes ago, Bsmith said:

 

I don't, my speakers are wireless, my headphones got the big connector, my speakers use dolby connection and I use a special device to listen too music through my hearing aids through bluetooth.

 

 

or a simple adapter that costs $9.00(or cheaper from 3rd party when they come) if you want to keep using your wired earbuds/headphones.

If I'm spending 800 bucks on a phone, partially because of its sleek design, why the hell would I want to accept needing to use an adapter (which adds another point of physical failure) to be able to continue to use my 3.5mm IEMs?

 

Especially as they "officially" did away with the 3.5mm jack because it was too bulky, while Apple still insists on a camera lens hump.

 

I fail to see either a technical, aesthetic or functional benefit to removing the 3.5mm jack from a phone.

[skywake]

37 minutes ago, Bouzoo said:

If we're gonna go there, Apple didn't inovate, Lenovo did it before them 3 months ago. 

 

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/06/09/moto-z-doesnt-3-5mm-headphone-jack/

Nintendo did it 10 years ago.... and it was just as stupid back then