For-profit college chain ITT Technical Institute shuts down

[Nowak]

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/09/07/itt-tech-shuts-down-all-campuses

 

 

Quote

Students across ITT Technical Institutes' 130 campuses awoke Tuesday morning to emails saying they wouldn't be attending class anymore.

After months of sanctions and years of investigations and lawsuits, ITT Educational Services -- the institution's parent company -- announced it was closing all of its campuses.

 

For those of you not from the US, ITT Tech is (or, was) a for-profit technical college chain based in Indiana, with 130 campuses across the US at the time of its closure yesterday. They were rather notorious for poor educational standards, higher default rates than graduation rates and placing thousands of students in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt with a degree no employer sees as legitimate. This shutdown comes weeks after the company lost federal financial aid rights for students. Since at least 1998, it has been no stranger to legal issues and criticism from former and current students, the media and federal government, and the company behind the schools has been sued multiple times for fraud. It was also subpoenaed by the governments of Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Tennessee and Washington between 2004 and 2014.

 

Of course, ITT Tech doesn't believe they did anything wrong.

Quote

"Today, we know by our experience that a U.S. institution or business can be forced to shut down without proof of allegations," said Kevin Modany, chief executive officer for ITT Educational Services, in a call with reporters. "The regulatory assault on our schools and institutions is unprecedented …. We have had no right to pursue our right to due process, and this should be concerning to all Americans."

 

I'd say your school's record says it all, Kevin. Of course, the US Department of Education defended its actions as well.

Quote

"It wasn't a decision we took lightly," said U.S. Under Secretary of Education Ted Mitchell in a phone call with reporters. "Ultimately, our responsibility is not to any individual institution. It's to protect all students and taxpayers, and I have no doubt our decision to take action was the right one."

Overall, I would say this is a good thing. ITT Tech was an example of one of the worst schools in America, and their shutdown should be an example for other notorious for-profit schools in the country. However, at the same time, being a college student myself, I feel for the 40,000 students displaced by ITT Tech's closure. Although, they now have a new opportunity to go to a better school. Hopefully they choose a non-profit school the next time.

[captain cactus]

For-profit school.

 

That should be a dead giveaway.

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

For-profit school.

 

That should be a dead giveaway.

That's actually not really an issue.... For profit programs have a tendency to run better (think UPS vs. USPS) since their profits depend on how well they run. Private institutions tend to be better than their publicly run counterparts (and yes, I understand private isn't quite the same as for profit).

 

The issue with ITT tech is that their marketing was misleading and people are idiots. 

[Nowak]

6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

That's actually not really an issue.... For profit programs have a tendency to run better (think UPS vs. USPS) since their profits depend on how well they run. Private institutions tend to be better than their publicly run counterparts (and yes, I understand private isn't quite the same as for profit).

 

The issue with ITT tech is that their marketing was misleading and people are idiots. 

A lot of American for-profit schools are notorious for giving students a piss-poor education while leaving them $100k or so in debt and a degree that won't get them a job.

 

One of my teachers used to work for ITT Tech and he hated it there, saying it was run more like a business than a school. He was also none too pleased about the extremely low educational standards. I mean, there's a problem if you can get straight As and a GPA of 4.0 just by submitting anything. You don't even have to put any effort into your work, you can submit a noodle recipe instead of a thesis and still get an A. If one student is to be believed, anyway.

 

I'd say the problem with ITT Tech was the way how it was run. Putting profits over educational standards. I was looking at ITT Tech during my college search, and now I'm really glad I went to a non-profit school instead.

[xmanrex123]

so glad i choes not to apply and now attend sfasu. i would hate to be in the debt i am now to the government due to student loans because i attended them and then had to start all over at a real university 

[Curufinwe_wins]

12 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

That's actually not really an issue.... For profit programs have a tendency to run better (think UPS vs. USPS) since their profits depend on how well they run. Private institutions tend to be better than their publicly run counterparts (and yes, I understand private isn't quite the same as for profit).

 

The issue with ITT tech is that their marketing was misleading and people are idiots. 

I mean, I would highly disagree with the assessment there, esp considering the entire point of USPS historically was to get to places that others won't (and to this day UPS and others often subcontract the less than optimal deliveries to USPS instead.) 

 

But the point remains that ITT Tech was an absolute trash heap, and getting sued into oblivion is a good precedent against similar institutions across the country.

 

Also it's pretty funny that US Media is highly highly biased against public colleges in the US while they are extremely well respected worldwide... As is evidenced by the disparity between the Time World University Rankings and the CWUR Rankings...

 

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2016/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/100/sort_by/rank_label/sort_order/asc/cols/rank_only

http://cwur.org/2016.php

[Unhelpful]

26 minutes ago, lots of unexplainable lag said:

For-profit school.

 

That should be a dead giveaway.

Not really, it's all on a per-school basis. It just so happens that this one was shady as fuck.

[Bleedingyamato]

10 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

I mean, I would highly disagree with the assessment there, esp considering the entire point of USPS historically was to get to places that others won't (and to this day UPS and others often subcontract the less than optimal deliveries to USPS instead.) 

 

But the point remains that ITT Tech was an absolute trash heap, and getting sued into oblivion is a good precedent against similar institutions across the country.

 

Also it's pretty funny that US Media is highly highly biased against public colleges in the US while they are extremely well respected worldwide... As is evidenced by the disparity between the Time World University Rankings and the CWUR Rankings...

 

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2016/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/100/sort_by/rank_label/sort_order/asc/cols/rank_only

http://cwur.org/2016.php

Public colleges don't deserve respect either.  They inflate tuition to insane levels that price college out of the reach of many and care more about getting paid then if students have the opportunity to get a college education.

 

It used to be that tuition was reasonable and people could easily pay for college working a minimum wage job.  Can't do that anymore I wonder why?  

 

Lots of other countries offer cheap or free college even to foreigners like us.  Some even go as far as giving students a monthly stipend to help cover living expenses while attending college.

 

While our colleges all try to convince us that overly expensive tuition is the only good option.

 

I'm in grad school currently and one class costs me $2400.  Does that sound reasonable?  Newsflash: it shouldn't.

[Nowak]

Just now, Bleedingyamato said:

Lots of other countries offer cheap or free college even to foreigners like us.  Some even go as far as giving students a monthly stipend to help cover living expenses while attending college.

This is true, but it comes at the cost of higher taxes. So, in effect, while you don't have to directly pay for college, taxpayers end up paying for your education instead.

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 minute ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Public colleges don't deserve respect either.  They inflate tuition to insane levels that price college out of the reach of many and care more about getting paid then if students have the opportunity to get a college education.

It used to be that tuition was reasonable and people could easily pay for college working a minimum wage job.  Can't do that anymore I wonder why?  

Lots of other countries offer cheap or free college even to foreigners like us.  Some even go as far as giving students a monthly stipend to help cover living expenses while attending college.

While our colleges all try to convince us that overly expensive tuition is the only good option.

I'm in grad school currently and one class costs me $2400.  Does that sound reasonable?  Newsflash: it shouldn't.

Not that it isn't an issue for undergrads, but no grad student should be paying for education... TA and RA positions exist for a reason, and are not particularly hard to get at most institutions (and yes I did both RA and TA jobs for full tuition remission, and a monthly stipend, at a US public institution during grad school.)

 

Otherwise, I don't care if you want to blast all US schools for their rather insane costs of attendance, but that isn't a useful discriminator between public and private schools (in fact you could only assess public schools being cheaper overall...) my comment was explicitly about how US Media perceive private liberal arts schools to be patently superior than public institutions in a very disproportionate manner.

[Bleedingyamato]

25 minutes ago, Daring said:

This is true, but it comes at the cost of higher taxes. So, in effect, while you don't have to directly pay for college, taxpayers end up paying for your education instead.

Yes but by doing so the cost is distributed and thus no person is forced to pay more than anyone else relative to their income assuming taxes in these countries are based on how much your yearly income is.  I'll bet that tuition is lower in those countries too as a result of being entirely or mostly taxpayer funded.  People wouldn't support huge sudden increases in tuition that would put too much of a burden on the populace.  Public institutions are supposed to run mainly or entirely from taxes and minor fees from things like those stickers you need for going into state/national parks.  They were never meant to run primarily from things like student tuition in this case.  We have a student loan debt crisis because the republicans in government have slashed funding to eduction and forced/allowed colleges to make up the difference by bleeding America's college students dry.

 

Not to mention that banks, you remember banks they're the same evil bastards who screwed up the economy and then were bailed out by the government without so much as a slap on the wrist, are given loans from the government at insanely low interest rates yet students can't get loans anywhere near that good.  I shouldn't need to tell anyone that's beyond ridiculous that greedy incompetent financial institutions are treated better than hardworking students who are supposed to be the future of this country.

 

They've also vilified hardworking teachers in order to facilitate taking away needed benefits like collective bargaining which among other things is forcing many teachers out of the profession and discouraging many more from wanting to become teachers.  Think about it: who wants to teach when now in addition to being severely underpaid and overworked they now get treated like the devil and used as scapegoats for every thing imaginable and then some?

 

I'll end this rant by saying that you don't make education better by taking away needed government funding and treating teachers as well as students worse than dirt.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Bleedingyamato
Fixed spelling.

[Bleedingyamato]

14 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Not that it isn't an issue for undergrads, but no grad student should be paying for education... TA and RA positions exist for a reason, and are not particularly hard to get at most institutions (and yes I did both RA and TA jobs for full tuition remission, and a monthly stipend, at a US public institution during grad school.)

 

Otherwise, I don't care if you want to blast all US schools for their rather insane costs of attendance, but that isn't a useful discriminator between public and private schools (in fact you could only assess public schools being cheaper overall...) my comment was explicitly about how US Media perceive private liberal arts schools to be patently superior than public institutions in a very disproportionate manner.

I'm an online student.  My entire degree is online so even if I wanted to work for the enemy I do not have that option since I don't ever go to the campus. (100% accredited from a public college so my degree is legit no worries there.)

 

Also I don't think any campus job at my college provides free tuition though to be honest I'm rather curious to see what if any tuition benefits are provided.  Not that I could take advantage of them anyway...

 

Yes public schools are cheaper in general but when you're financially screwed regardless of what college you attend it really doesn't make much difference even if public colleges are more respected by some people.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Just now, Bleedingyamato said:

I'm an online student.  My entire degree is online so even if I wanted to work for the enemy I do not have that option since I don't ever go to the campus. (100% accredited from a public college so my degree is legit no worries there.)

 

Also I don't think any campus job at my college provides free tuition though to be honest I'm rather curious to see what if any tuition benefits are provided.  Not that I could take advantage of them anyway...

 

Yes public schools are cheaper in general but when you're financially screwed regardless of what college you attend it really doesn't make much difference even if public colleges are more respected by some people.

So I agreed with almost everything in your previous post, but just giving the example. Also that's only one of the things as an online student you are missing out on, but oh well.

 

Anyways... tuition remission is the name of the game.

 

http://www.bussvc.wisc.edu/bursar/remista.html

 

Basically if you get a teachers assistant or research assistant position  (which as a grad student you want anyways) you automatically qualify to have tution remissed (you pay some specific surcharges but instead of 7-20k a semester it's more like 500-1000 dollars) and get the appropriate monthly stipend (min is like 1100 dollars a month, tax free).

[Nowak]

Oh. For those of you wondering, it's possible for ITT Tech students to get their tuition and federal aid refunded. As I said, this gives them a chance to go to somewhere better.

 

Hopefully they don't make the same mistake again and go to DeVry.

[Zodiark1593]

It's likely some people here dodged a bullet. 

[Bleedingyamato]

48 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

So I agreed with almost everything in your previous post, but just giving the example. Also that's only one of the things as an online student you are missing out on, but oh well.

 

Anyways... tuition remission is the name of the game.

 

http://www.bussvc.wisc.edu/bursar/remista.html

 

Basically if you get a teachers assistant or research assistant position  (which as a grad student you want anyways) you automatically qualify to have tution remissed (you pay some specific surcharges but instead of 7-20k a semester it's more like 500-1000 dollars) and get the appropriate monthly stipend (min is like 1100 dollars a month, tax free).

Sorry.  I didn't mean to come across as hostile.  It's just that this high tuition stuff really pisses me off.  ?

[Bleedingyamato]

1 hour ago, Daring said:

Oh. For those of you wondering, it's possible for ITT Tech students to get their tuition and federal aid refunded. As I said, this gives them a chance to go to somewhere better.

 

Hopefully they don't make the same mistake again and go to DeVry.

Does DeVry have similar low standards and bad pricing, etc.?

 

I never thought any of these wannabe colleges were any good but I'm curious anyway.

[Nowak]

1 hour ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Does DeVry have similar low standards and bad pricing, etc.?

 

I never thought any of these wannabe colleges were any good but I'm curious anyway.

Yeah, DeVry has a similar reputation.

[Bleedingyamato]

33 minutes ago, Daring said:

Yeah, DeVry has a similar reputation.

Fingers crossed the government steps on them next then.  lol

[Nowak]

Just now, Bleedingyamato said:

Fingers crossed the government steps on them next then.  lol

How about Full Sail and Phoenix University too?

[Scruffy90]

I know that this is slightly off topic, but pretty much every college has become a for profit business of sorts.

[Lurick]

2 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Does DeVry have similar low standards and bad pricing, etc.?

 

I never thought any of these wannabe colleges were any good but I'm curious anyway.

Let me put it to you this way, their standards were so low in the game design program that for one class I took they required one book and for that one book it had literally 0 lines of code or even coding theory written inside that book. The entire class that book was for revolved around writing code and making games. You had to google like a madman to even come close to figuring shit out for that class.

[Nowak]

Also, some advice for anyone reading this thread who's looking for advice (or maybe you're an ITT Tech student who was displaced by their closure):

Avoid, avoid, AVOID for-profit schools, especially national chains like DeVry and Kaplan. Non-profit schools have higher educational standards, better-equipped staff and while tuition may still be expensive, you will end up saving a lot in the long run compared to a for-profit, and you will get a degree that more employers are guaranteed to accept. Your education matters, don't go waste it, your time and money on a shitty for-profit school. Honestly can't stress this enough, unless flipping burgers at McDonalds even though you hold a degree in criminal justice and being $100k in debt is appealing to you.

[Bleedingyamato]

54 minutes ago, Daring said:

How about Full Sail and Phoenix University too?

Hang them all and let Godoka sort it out.  ?

[Bleedingyamato]

54 minutes ago, Scruffy90 said:

I know that this is slightly off topic, but pretty much every college has become a for profit business of sorts.

Unfortunately that is all too true nowadays but Godoka I wish it wasn't.