Kaby Lake and Zen "only" on Windows 10

[zMeul]

source: http://www.pcworld.com/article/3112663/software/microsoft-made-em-do-it-the-latest-kaby-lake-zen-chips-will-support-only-windows-10.html

 

it started back in spring with Skylake - MS was adamant to force Skylake owners into W10 only support, they've reconsidered

now, it's Intel's Kaby Lake and AMD's and Zen's turn to submit to MicroSoft's will

Quote

AMD and Intel, for their part, appear to have had little choice in Microsoft’s decision essentially to limit the customers they can sell to.

 

“We are committed to working with Microsoft and our ecosystem partners to help ensure a smooth transition given these changes to Microsoft’s Windows support policy,” an Intel spokesman said.

"No, Intel will not be updating Win 7/8 drivers for 7th Gen Intel Core per Microsoft’s support policy change," he added in an email on Tuesday.

 

An AMD representative was equally neutral. “AMD’s processor roadmap is fully aligned with Microsoft’s software strategy,” AMD chief technical officer Mark Papermaster said, via a company spokeswoman. 

AMD’s Bristol Ridge chip, the first to be tied to Windows 10, launched in June as its seventh-generation APU. AMD’s first member of its new Zen microprocessor family, dubbed Summit Ridge, will appear in high-end desktop PCs early next year. Neither will be officially supported by the older operating systems.

 

will you be able to install Windows 7 (for example) on a Kaby Lake / Zen system? probably yes - if you don't have a PS2 keyboard port on the mobo, this endeavor is dead before it even begins

will it function correctly? most likely it won't .....

Quote

One source privately guessed that the processor would boot, though without driver support and security updates the experience would be “a bit glitchy.” Without specific support for a chip’s features—such as the dedicated video processing logic within Kaby Lake, for example—certain apps, if not the OS itself, might crash, another said.

 

for the end user, might not matter a bit

but for businesses, it will - it's already clear that businesses are quite reluctant to jump to MS' new OS

not funny MicroSoft, not fucking funny!

[Nena Trinity]

Microsoft killed PC, all worship the all mighty Penguin!

[Curious Pineapple]

I guess buying now rather than waiting for Zen was a good move. This could possibly see more people looking towards Apple or Linux machines if true.

[samcool55]

If MicroSh*t wouldn't push out a major update every flippin year the maybe, just maybe, the business guys would be fine with this.

 

But because they keep pushing big updates and making big changes the pro-users have much more work keeping everything working smoothly...

 

I actually really want to know what would happen if all the businesses out there get mad about this.

[PlayStation 2]

I'll be completely honest, Windows 7's gonna hit 8 once Zen hits its widespread release. Is it a bit too early to discontinue driver support? Eh, yeah, but it's not that surprising.

[Cracklingice]

It's something we've known for a long time.  Originally Skylake wasn't even going to have 7 and 8 support.  No surprise here.  M$ wants your data and the manufacturers have little reason to ignore M$'s decision by making drivers for the new stuff to run on the older OS'.  It's way simpler for them to just write one so that is what they will do.

 

[NumLock21]

They never forced on it. You can still install win7 on skylake.

[Misanthrope]

No way: they can't force business users to upgrade the OS and most of them will be getting these chips. They're just playing a stupid game of chicken, one that they will lose.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Spoiler

 

Android Haters:

"Why the fuck can't Google make it so that everyone gets and can run Android 7.0? Why do we have to have 5 different OS variants supported concurrently?"

 

Apple Haters:

"Why the fuck does Apple make you update your phone to use functionality you already had? Why can't the app just keep working and not update? Also why the fuck does an forced OS update make this device completely unusable?"

 

MS Haters:

"Why the fuck is brand new hardware only supporting the quantitatively best performing and most secure Windows OS out at the moment?"

 

Oh the hilarity... As if people wouldn't lose their minds if Apple stopped updating their older devices for a while... As if people wouldn't lose their minds if the latest SD850* didn't come standard with Android 8.4*... As if MS actually even tries 1/10 the crap Google and Apple do to force you onto their newest OSs...

 

Potentially NSFLC (little children, comment). Also gross over-simplification for the sake of amusement....

[NumLock21]

This makes no sense same with that skylake will only work on win 8.1 crap. Someones pulls bs out of their ass and it becomes fact.

[Misanthrope]

6 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

MS Haters:

"Why the fuck is brand new hardware only supporting the quantitatively best performing and most secure Windows OS out at the moment?"

Well go ahead and answer it: what specific performance and security features does Windows 10 has that cannot be implemented and patched into Windows 7? No, new features do not relate to better performance and security. New features should stand on their own merit for the consumer to decide. Performance and security however, better have a damn good reason to require an entire new OS.

 

I've never heard a good reason why they need Windows 10, other than Microsoft wants to sell new software. And despite your poisoning of the well we're not opposed to new features. Just not when they're forcefully shoved up your fucking ass to make you pay whenever you're ready to try said features or not.

[AresKrieger]

5 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

"Why the fuck is brand new hardware only supporting the quantitatively best performing and most secure Windows OS out at the moment?"

Well I'd agree with that sentiment if the new hardware actually functioned correctly on the new software, but it often doesn't.

[Curufinwe_wins]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Well go ahead and answer it: what specific performance and security features does Windows 10 has that cannot be implemented and patched into Windows 7? No, new features do not relate to better performance and security. New features should stand on their own merit for the consumer to decide. Performance and security however, better have a damn good reason to require an entire new OS.

 

I've never heard a good reason why they need Windows 10, other than Microsoft wants to sell new software. And despite your poisoning of the well we're not opposed to new features. Just not when they're forcefully shoved up your fucking ass to make you pay whenever you're ready to try said features or not.

Please tell that to iOS 7/8/9, Android 4.3/4.4, Marshmallow, Windows 8.1, Windows 7 (which was literally the Vista kernel debugged, well plus the improvements in computers available in that two year or so span), and a plethora of other operating systems whose features could easily have been baked into the previous version instead of a new one.

 

3 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Well I'd agree with that sentiment if the new hardware actually functioned correctly on the new software, but it often doesn't.

That is literally the case with every OS that has ever been released... From every company...

 

Also see edit of original post... I am well aware it is a gross oversimplification for the source of amusement.

[comicsansms]

I don't agree with not having 7/8.1/10 support, but it doesn't really matter to me. If it was a big business and the OS supported for their super expensive program is windows 7 and they need to upgrade their very old Pentium D based systems, they have the right to be pissed off that they cannnot install Windows 7 on their PC's.

 

The thing is I don't know why Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 so much, they will still have to support Vista till April 2017, 7 till January 2020 and 8.1 till January 2023 (mainstream support till January 2018)

 

[AresKrieger]

4 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

snip

My comment was also for the sake of amusement

 

I have less issues with this tbh than the DRM crap rumored for kaby, frankly by the time I plan to upgrade my CPU I expect microsoft to have come to their senses due to loss of users (mostly due to business side)

[Curufinwe_wins]

6 minutes ago, Comic_Sans_MS said:

I don't agree with not having 7/8.1/10 support, but it doesn't really matter to me. If it was a big business and the OS supported for their super expensive program is windows 7 and they need to upgrade their very old Pentium D based systems, they have the right to be pissed off that they cannnot install Windows 7 on their PC's.

 

The thing is I don't know why Microsoft is pushing Windows 10 so much, they will still have to support Vista till April 2017, 7 till January 2020 and 8.1 till January 2023 (mainstream support till January 2018)

 

Cause no one wants to have to send out 4 different versions of fixes every single time you want to change something... Why does Apple effectively force you to update your device... Same with Android (if the manufacturer ever gets the update out past the carriers..) I literally don't see how this is any different than anyone else's system... This is like asking Apple to install OS X Snow Leopard on your brand new 2017 iMac, and expecting them to go, "why not?"...  

[zMeul]

22 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

This makes no sense same with that skylake will only work on win 8.1 crap. Someones pulls bs out of their ass and it becomes fact.

bullshit!?

I must remind you it nearly happened with Skylake: https://blogs.windows.com/business/2016/08/11/updates-to-silicon-support-policy-for-windows/#XGqBgSOiM3hue8VV.97

Quote

Enterprise customers are moving to Windows 10 faster than any version of Windows. At the same time, we recognize that, in some instances, customers have a few systems that require longer deployment timeframes. We listened to this feedback and today are sharing an update to our 6th Gen Intel Core (Skylake) support policy.* We have extended the support period from July 17, 2018 to the end of support dates for Windows 7 and Windows 8.1; and we will provide all applicable security updates.

 

if Intel would not've released USB drivers for 100series chipsets it would've made installing W7 nearly impossible - Intel actually removed the EHCI protocol from USB (even if it's USB2); you still need a 2nd machine to inject the USB drivers in the install kitt

some mobos still have the PS/2 keyb connector, but the small form factor NUCs (and similar) opted out

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Well go ahead and answer it: what specific performance and security features does Windows 10 has that cannot be implemented and patched into Windows 7? No, new features do not relate to better performance and security. New features should stand on their own merit for the consumer to decide. Performance and security however, better have a damn good reason to require an entire new OS.

 

I've never heard a good reason why they need Windows 10, other than Microsoft wants to sell new software. And despite your poisoning of the well we're not opposed to new features. Just not when they're forcefully shoved up your fucking ass to make you pay whenever you're ready to try said features or not.

I agree a hundred percent, but I would also add that I recall Microsoft stating that they wanted users on one OS across all platforms, from desktops to mobile devices like phones and laptops. That way their security team or whatever only has to patch one OS rather than the four or five they are currently supporting, and they can save money. I'm not saying it makes how they're doing Windows 10 any better, but at least it sorta makes sense...if it actually pans out and they don't shove Windows 11 down our throats as well.

[comicsansms]

10 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Cause no one wants to have to send out 4 different versions of fixes every single time you want to change something... Why does Apple effectively force you to update your device... Same with Android (if the manufacturer ever gets the update out past the carriers..) I literally don't see how this is any different than anyone else's system... This is like asking Apple to install OS X Snow Leopard on your brand new 2017 iMac, and expecting them to go, "why not?"...  

The fact they said they are going to support it till that date means that they will have to support it till that date (or lots of people will sue). The old version of iOS, android and OSX are not supported anymore so I understand why you cannot officially install them on your new device.

 

If Microsoft doesn't want to have to support 4 different OS versions at once, they should have had a lower support date when they released them (But I guess they hoped for another XP when vista, 7 and 8 came out.)

[Misanthrope]

18 minutes ago, Curufinwe_wins said:

Please tell that to iOS 7/8/9, Android 4.3/4.4, Marshmallow, ....

Nevermind I've lost interest.

[Curufinwe_wins]

8 minutes ago, Comic_Sans_MS said:

The fact they said they are going to support it till that date means that they will have to support it till that date (or lots of people will sue). The old version of iOS, android and OSX are not supported anymore so I understand why you cannot officially install them on your new device.

 

If Microsoft doesn't want to have to support 4 different OS versions at once, they should have had a lower support date when they released them (But I guess they hoped for another XP when vista, 7 and 8 came out.)

Supporting people on old devices =/= allowing new users to go onto depreciated software.... That should be self-evident the difference...

 

6 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Nevermind I've lost interest.

hehe.

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I have plenty of other qualms with MS's implementations of Win10... but this is something where the explanation for doing so is ludicrously self-evident and fairly valid.

[Arty]

as long as linux will work......

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, Arty said:

as long as linux will work......

That's actually a decent proposition: Move to Kaby Lake (Or Zen if it doesn't sucks) on Linux as your main OS and just run virtualized Windows 10 with GPU passthrough just to game.

 

I might just do exactly that in fact.

[Curufinwe_wins]

3 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

That's actually a decent proposition: Move to Kaby Lake (Or Zen if it doesn't sucks) on Linux as your main OS and just run virtualized Windows 10 with GPU passthrough just to game.

 

I might just do exactly that in fact.

Intel's virtualization penalties are quite low, probably would work well.

 

EDIT: I don't know how much of a hit AMD cpu's take for virtualization. This shouldn't be taken as a F AMD comment.

[Energycore]

Quote

"Why the fuck is brand new hardware only supporting the quantitatively best performing and most secure Windows OS out at the moment?"

You have an interesting sense of security