The situation at Tek syndicate

[soup]

12 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

 Pistol is entirely innocent in any mismanagement, simply because she was never in charge of the business or their finances).

 

 

You are probably too young to know without googling, but this is pretty much like the Yoko Ono ending the Beatles episode she also was someone who had no official management position/control but had the ear of John Lennon and managed to split the band. 

Was it happening anyway? - Probably

Did she hasten the end? -  Almost certainly.

 

TL:DR You don't have to be official to be influential.

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, soup said:

You are probably too young to know without googling, but this is pretty much like the Yoko Ono ending the Beatles episode she also was someone who had no official management position/control but had the ear of John Lennon and managed to split the band. 

Was it happening anyway? - Probably

Did she hasten the end? -  Almost certainly.

 

TL:DR You don't have to be official to be influential.

Influence is immaterial in this situation.

 

I can walk up to my CEO and tell her "Hey you should invest $2M into shares of Fertilizer, rather than buying this year's stock of books".

 

If she listens to my bad advice, that is HER FAULT, not mine, ultimately.

 

In this case, if Logan followed her management advice, and it lead to mismanagement, that's on him. He had no obligation to follow her directions, and had other employees who no doubt also gave him "advice" (good and bad). Ultimately, Logan (And John Lennon - and anyone for that matter) is responsible for his own actions.

[soup]

I never said nor implied Pistol was at fault, what I did say and meant that was people who do not have official positions ARE still (sometimes) listened too.  This in no way excuses Logan, or any one else for that matter, just that it DOES happen.

 

  Oh and by the way I don't mean anything as obvious as  advice like 'don't buy books'  rather a subtley placed snippet such as "why do we deal with them, isn't jimmys a better company to buy books from?".

[spartaman64]

27 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Influence is immaterial in this situation.

 

I can walk up to my CEO and tell her "Hey you should invest $2M into shares of Fertilizer, rather than buying this year's stock of books".

 

If she listens to my bad advice, that is HER FAULT, not mine, ultimately.

 

In this case, if Logan followed her management advice, and it lead to mismanagement, that's on him. He had no obligation to follow her directions, and had other employees who no doubt also gave him "advice" (good and bad). Ultimately, Logan (And John Lennon - and anyone for that matter) is responsible for his own actions.

 

1 minute ago, soup said:

I never said nor implied Pistol was at fault, what I did say and meant that was people who do not have official positions ARE still (sometimes) listened too.  This in no way excuses Logan, or any one else for that matter, just that it DOES happen.

 

  Oh and by the way I don't mean anything as obvious as  advice like 'don't buy books'  rather a subtley placed snippet such as "why do we deal with them, isn't jimmys a better company to by books from?".

she is logan's girlfriend so her influence is a bit stronger than you to your CEO but im not saying thats he case as we dont have any evidence im saying its possible and if its true then it is partly her fault

[dalekphalm]

9 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

 

she is logan's girlfriend so her influence is a bit stronger than you to your CEO but im not saying thats he case as we dont have any evidence im saying its possible and if its true then it is partly her fault

Sure but this is speculation. We have no idea what level of influence she has over Logan, nor what exactly she might have "tried to convince" him to do, that he wouldn't otherwise do on his own. Logan is an adult. He's gotta put his big boy pants on and take responsibility for his actions.

 

She might be his gf (even that is subject to confirmation - I've seen it stated that they are former lovers, as well as current lovers - I don't know which is correct - nor do I care, since that is 100% none of mine, nor anyone else's business), but that doesn't shift responsibility from one to the other.

 

I could take financial advice from the weird homeless guy who dresses like Santa Clause. Would he be at fault for me listening to him? Hell no, he's a crazy dude in a Santa Clause suit. I'm responsible for my own actions, and only me. She never held a gun to his head (that we know of lol) or forced his hand. If he listened to her, ultimately, he still made the decision.

[MEC-777]

6 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I think it is good that the channel is dying. The huge amount of misinformation to come out of that channel has, in my opinion, had an overall negative effect on the "tech community".

I think the world would be better off without Tek Syndicate.

Can't even begin to explain how much I disagree with you on this. I've learned a lot from him, his channel and community over the last few years. 

[LAwLz]

5 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Can't even begin to explain how much I disagree with you on this. I've learned a lot from him, his channel and community over the last few years. 

Maybe he has gotten better over the years (or more likely, Logan has talked less and Wendell has talked more), but back when I started hearing about them I could not stand watching them. Their videos were full of inaccuracies to the point I genuinely believe that people would be better of not watching them at all. For every thing they got right, they got another thing wrong.

 

I would recommend you double-check everything you have learned from Logan and Qain, because there is a very high possibility that they just made it up without checking any facts.

[MEC-777]

40 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Maybe he has gotten better over the years (or more likely, Logan has talked less and Wendell has talked more), but back when I started hearing about them I could not stand watching them. Their videos were full of inaccuracies to the point I genuinely believe that people would be better of not watching them at all. For every thing they got right, they got another thing wrong.

 

I would recommend you double-check everything you have learned from Logan and Qain, because there is a very high possibility that they just made it up without checking any facts.

Not at all. That which I'm referring to is mostly Linux-related videos which consisted of both Logan and Wendell doing the demonstrations and explanations. Their info was/is very much correct in that regard. 

 

IMO, they had very forward-thinking content, especially when it comes to Linux. That I really appreciated and learned a lot from. It's something most of the other tech communities barely ever talk about but should be very much an integral part of any tech community.

 

You obviously don't like them for various reasons and that's fine. To each, his/her own. 

[subscribe_to_linus_again]

The Crooked Syndicate

 

 

 

 

 

At one point in time these two crooks had more than a thousand pateon supporters and the highest total per month was over $9000 per month.

 

They did not produce any good content and the patreon promise to supporters was broken from day one!

 

Whenever they managed to put out a video, the big news always was, Logan is traveling to China, United Kingdom, and to other places, Logan is having side projects, making a Tek Syndicate game, and by the way wee have no money .

 

[Blake]

On 9/4/2016 at 11:05 AM, dalekphalm said:

Wendell and Logan are the ONLY TWO who can be held responsible for making statements about the company.

Normally your one of the more reasoned people on these forums, but seriously, your doing a great job of your ubisoft impersonation (keep on digging).

 

Any 'officer' of the organisation should be listened too. It's a big deal on the business management/corporate law  side of things. Basically she (pistol) is an employee of the organisation (size of the organisation matters, being IBM and having the janitor say something versus being one of the 4 or 5 people who work at said organisation) then considering other factors, (like how close she is with the ceo/founder/whatever logan's title is) she would be considered/perceived to be acting as an officer of the organisation. She has made no attempt to "distance" herself from acting as an officer of the organisation.

 

Same thing would apply to Quain and Wendell if it wasn't common knowledge that Quain was fired/quit and the same happened with Wendell (however Wendell is a special case as it is still murky).

 

admittedly this is Aussie law, (which i have't looked at for many many years), but this is the internet, it doesn't matter where it happened for people to form opinions. 

 

the other points you have made regarding donations etc, are slightly miss-informed also, and you seem like a smart enough guy that you'd see it from the other side you you looked into these sorts of topics (i.e. just because you say it is a donation, but treat it like a sale (that should read contract) doesn't make it a donation, it is the same thing with all the crowd funding things, technically your still a consumer, entering into a contract for an exchange of goods and services, you can call it a flying fuck, dosn't make it one).

[dalekphalm]

35 minutes ago, Blake said:

Normally your one of the more reasoned people on these forums, but seriously, your doing a great job of your ubisoft impersonation (keep on digging).

 

Any 'officer' of the organisation should be listened too. It's a big deal on the business management/corporate law  side of things. Basically she (pistol) is an employee of the organisation (size of the organisation matters, being IBM and having the janitor say something versus being one of the 4 or 5 people who work at said organisation) then considering other factors, (like how close she is with the ceo/founder/whatever logan's title is) she would be considered/perceived to be acting as an officer of the organisation. She has made no attempt to "distance" herself from acting as an officer of the organisation.

 

Same thing would apply to Quain and Wendell if it wasn't common knowledge that Quain was fired/quit and the same happened with Wendell (however Wendell is a special case as it is still murky).

 

admittedly this is Aussie law, (which i have't looked at for many many years), but this is the internet, it doesn't matter where it happened for people to form opinions. 

 

the other points you have made regarding donations etc, are slightly miss-informed also, and you seem like a smart enough guy that you'd see it from the other side you you looked into these sorts of topics (i.e. just because you say it is a donation, but treat it like a sale (that should read contract) doesn't make it a donation, it is the same thing with all the crowd funding things, technically your still a consumer, entering into a contract for an exchange of goods and services, you can call it a flying fuck, dosn't make it one).

I'll give you that people will certainly listen to Pistol, and what she says about the company. And yes, company size does matter, but she's still (as far as we're aware) in no position of Authority within TS. So it might not be equivalent of the Janitor at IBM saying shit, but it might be comparable to a store Manager making comments about Wal-Mart global strategies.

 

The only two authoritative/definitive people who can comment on the TS business are Logan and Wendell. They are the two that actually have the power (both legally, and just within the TS family) to actually make those decisions.

 

Yes, she's close with Logan. But even that, is not exactly solid information. People aren't even sure what her relationship is with Logan. Apparently she was (or is - depending on who you ask) his gf. With that in mind, her relationship with him on a personal level is irrelevant to the events in question.

 

Finally, your point about donations - I understand what you're saying, but I fundamentally disagree. People might see Patreon and Kickstarter donations as "sales" (contract or agreement of exchange of goods or services for money). But they're wrong. It has always been a voluntary act of donation of funds, with the promise that it will help. Now, I know Kickstarter has been battling that very issue, and trying to take measures legally to ensure that backers have some measure of guarantee, but in the end? There is no guarantee.

 

You can make jokes about my "Ubisoft impression" all you want, but it that does not invalidate any of my points.

 

It seems though, like we may never get the full story as to what happened. Logan has officially hired a new Business Manager (Brad Hutchison), who will take over the administrative duties of the company, effectively becoming the "day to day" boss. Logan will retain full creative control and direction, of course.

https://www.patreon.com/posts/update-6696644

 

So Logan made 2 updates, since the incident. Yet I have not seen any updates/further communications from Wendell (Nor Qain, but I'm not following him, so I wouldn't know where to look even if I cared).

 

Perhaps Wendell and Logan are still in discussions, but from the post that Brad made, it implies that Wendell is no longer with the company (No surprise there, given Wendell's Tweetlonger post).

 

Yep, just saw confirmation in the comments of the Patreon post:

Quote

Tek Syndicate

2 hours ago

I think the best way I can describe it is some long-term internal tension finally gave in. Managing and delegating things weren't working out, and there was a TON of miscommunication. There's a lot more then what has previously been posted on social media at the moment - but long story short, Wendell, Qain and Jenny are no longer part of Tek Syndicate and Logan has being finalizing things in Portland. - Hutch

 

Because of that, I really don't know what Wendell is going to do, in regards to communication.

 

Also, not sure what he's gonna do about the Forums. As I understand it, Logan would retain ownership of the Forums, in the software and data sense - yet Wendell supposedly owns the physical servers themselves.

 

I foresee two possibilities:

1. Logan simply contracts out and rents the server from Wendell. If they are on good terms, and talking, then this is probably pretty likely.

2. Logan migrates the data onto a new physical server, probably just renting some rackspace or a VPS in some data centre. This is only likely if the relationship between Wendell and Logan is completely over.

 

I think it comes down to this: Logan is really fucking bad at running a company. Now that he's hired a business manager who can do that for him, we'll see how it works out.

 

TS is in a crucial point - the next 3-6 months will tell us whether TS, as a brand, survives or not. This will either be a slow death into oblivion, or it will come out stronger than ever before.

 

We'll see. Personally, don't care one way or the other, as I've never been a follower of their channel. But maybe I'll take a look every now and then and see how they're doing (or dying, if such is the case).

[z0phi3l]

On 9/4/2016 at 2:49 PM, MEC-777 said:

Not at all. That which I'm referring to is mostly Linux-related videos which consisted of both Logan and Wendell doing the demonstrations and explanations. Their info was/is very much correct in that regard. 

 

IMO, they had very forward-thinking content, especially when it comes to Linux. That I really appreciated and learned a lot from. It's something most of the other tech communities barely ever talk about but should be very much an integral part of any tech community.

 

You obviously don't like them for various reasons and that's fine. To each, his/her own. 

 

Not sure what videos you watched, but Logan had no real clue what he was doing in Linux and just agreed or parroted what Wendell said 

As for the Tek, stopped watching it because all Logan could do is blabber on about politics while Wendell tried to keep it about Tech, even the one he justput out after all this crap happened, didn't make it past 10 mins because it immediately derailed into nonsense 

 

Without Qain and Wendell there is no TekSyndicate the Logan and Pistol show is not entertaining or informative 

[Michael McAllister]

On 9/1/2016 at 0:58 PM, dalekphalm said:

Simple. Don't donate when they start asking for more money.

 

Here's the key difference: You can ASK them what happened to the other money, and they can DECIDE to tell you. But you cannot "demand" it (Well I guess you can, but they don't have to listen).

 

He very well might have been ready to start a new fundraising campaign. But when and if that happened, people would have the opportunity to ask questions (but not demand a response), and if they don't get good enough answers?

 

I understand and agree with your point to certain extent. Specifics are not anyone's business. If a large portion of your content is supported through community-generated revenue, however, the content creator does have an ethical obligation to communicate with them and provide a general outlook of the direction the content is going.  Patrons, especially the whales, are essentially unofficial investors. No legal action can be taken if things don't pan out, of course, but it should be treated as such.

[Sladerz]

32 minutes ago, z0phi3l said:

 

Not sure what videos you watched, but Logan had no real clue what he was doing in Linux and just agreed or parroted what Wendell said 

As for the Tek, stopped watching it because all Logan could do is blabber on about politics while Wendell tried to keep it about Tech, even the one he justput out after all this crap happened, didn't make it past 10 mins because it immediately derailed into nonsense 

 

Without Qain and Wendell there is no TekSyndicate the Logan and Pistol show is not entertaining or informative 

I couldn't agree with you more. Logan was more or less just the comic relief. In the newest tek agent beard didn't do a bad job but its not the same without wendell or qain. I'll follow those to if they do their own channels but as for TekSyndicate goes I'm done with them. I'd laugh if wendell and qain get together and make a channel that crushes TekSyndicate.

[dalekphalm]

13 minutes ago, Michael McAllister said:

 

I understand and agree with your point to certain extent. Specifics are not anyone's business. If a large portion of your content is supported through community-generated revenue, however, the content creator does have an ethical obligation to communicate with them and provide a general outlook of the direction the content is going.  Patrons, especially the whales, are essentially unofficial investors. No legal action can be taken if things don't pan out, of course, but it should be treated as such.

Personally, I feel that in such cases, especially those larger donations, they actually should be investors. I definitely feel like tighter regulation must come sooner or later, to help alleviate a lot of these issues.

 

The problem of course is how to manage both ends of the spectrum and strike a balance?

 

On one hand, you don't want to impede someone's right to straight up donate money to a company. If I have $10,000 to give Logan for TS, and I don't care how he spends it, I should have that right.

 

On the other hand, people who are using Patreon as a "purchase in exchange for services quoted (The Patreon Rewards), should have some legal protections.

 

One of the main issues is that people are donating, without realizing it. They may superficially understand that they are making a "donation" to TS, but their subconscious still treats the same as a service agreement - like I would treat my subscription to Netflix. I pay a certain amount, and you guarantee a list of services.

 

There's no middle ground. You want to balance both, without putting an overburden of liability on the content creator in the process.

 

There should be two levels of "donations".

 

There should be a basic level:

You give them money in whatever amount you want. You have no legal or ethical recourse, should things not go according to posted schedule. The money is a gift, and you expect nothing in return.

 

And the upper level:

Reward and/or tiered based "subscriptions". These are not donations. The content creator lists a set of promised rewards (Whether that be exclusive content, or even potentially a promised ROI in the form of a real cash investment). These rewards would have some guarantee, with a strictly imposed penalty if not delivered.

 

The problem is getting the Creators on board with the upper tier, and of course, convincing both Law Makers and Regulators, as well as the content platform itself (YouTube) to jump on board as well.

[Michael McAllister]

7 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

*Snip*

 

It may be true that some people are treating Patreon like a EULA.  From reading the forums regarding this issue, this seems like a simple violation of the Wil Wheaton rule. I haven't got any impression that people feel that lawyers should be involved here regarding any specific donation.

 

I'll use JayzTwoCents as an example.  A year or so ago, he has said that he'd be willing to take off work and time out of his day to go cover CES for the channel if he received enough money for that to happen.  He received a surplus of money from donations. He actually had to tell people to stop donating as his goal was met. In subsequent videos, he took the time to describe what he used the money for and how it would help create better content. He didn't have to do that, sure.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that Logan and Pistol have to do anything. Just that their unwillingness to do so is somewhat of a proverbial middle finger to the audience that genuinely cared enough to fund the channel with their own money.

[dalekphalm]

1 minute ago, Michael McAllister said:

 

It may be true that some people are treating Patreon like a EULA.  From reading the forums regarding this issue, this seems like a simple violation of the Wil Wheaton rule. I haven't got any impression that people feel that lawyers should be involved here regarding any specific donation.

 

I'll use JayzTwoCents as an example.  A year or so ago, he has said that he'd be willing to take off work and time out of his day to go cover CES for the channel if he received enough money for that to happen.  He received a surplus of money from donations. He actually had to tell people to stop donating as his goal was met. In subsequent videos, he took the time to describe what he used the money for and how it would help create better content. He didn't have to do that, sure.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying that Logan and Pistol have to do anything. Just that their unwillingness to do so is somewhat of a proverbial middle finger to the audience that genuinely cared enough to fund the channel with their own money.

I don't disagree with anything you've said here.

 

I actually did not know that about Jay. I can't say I'm surprised - whether you love or hate his "I'm a likeable idiot" personality/character - he ultimately seems like a very upstanding content creator, on the ethical side of things.

[Michael McAllister]

26 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

I don't disagree with anything you've said here.

 

I actually did not know that about Jay. I can't say I'm surprised - whether you love or hate his "I'm a likeable idiot" personality/character - he ultimately seems like a very upstanding content creator, on the ethical side of things.

 

Yeah, I don't always agree with Jay, but he's an upstanding guy.  Ditto for Jerry as well.

[JoyPlays]

Haven't really been following the situation on TekSynd., so I had no idea this was going on inside their org.
No wonder the last videos are without Qain and Wendell, it's a pitty. The usual tek series is missing Wendell. I did enjoy the show when they were two, now.. it's just not the same. One man show. Pitty.

[Yamoto42]

On 9/4/2016 at 7:39 AM, Sintezza said:

We are currently working out some idea´s for the future of the Forum.

 

Any chances of a Professionals Communicating Poorly forum?

I (and I bet alot of others) would be totally into a Professionals <verb>ing Poorly brand.

[dalekphalm]

4 hours ago, JoyPlays said:

Haven't really been following the situation on TekSynd., so I had no idea this was going on inside their org.
No wonder the last videos are without Qain and Wendell, it's a pitty. The usual tek series is missing Wendell. I did enjoy the show when they were two, now.. it's just not the same. One man show. Pitty.

To be fair, Logan is in the process of hiring new local talent. Though it'll likely be weeks (if not months) before we actually see that new talent actually in front of the Camera in a video.

 

There's also likely a backlog of videos that will be released over time that were already filmed, that still have Qain and Wendell in them.

[Yamoto42]

4 hours ago, JoyPlays said:

Haven't really been following the situation on TekSynd., so I had no idea this was going on inside their org.
No wonder the last videos are without Qain and Wendell, it's a pitty. The usual tek series is missing Wendell. I did enjoy the show when they were two, now.. it's just not the same. One man show. Pitty.

Yeah, they did have a good double act going on.  Can't really find a better straight man than Wendell.

[Misanthrope]

The only sad part is that Logan and Pistol have gathered enough sympathy to gather a bit more cash then go into hiding. But well we often underestimate the good will (and naiivety) of people: crowd sourcing and patreon have shown people are always ready to trust strangers on good faith alone with no guarantees. Hmm

 

*Ponders snake oil sales as a career*

[Yoinkerman]

On 9/4/2016 at 10:19 AM, spartaman64 said:

 

she is logan's girlfriend so her influence is a bit stronger than you to your CEO but im not saying thats he case as we dont have any evidence im saying its possible and if its true then it is partly her fault

They're not a couple.  I've been with Logan (in person) while he was talking to his gf and it wasn't her.

[dalekphalm]

55 minutes ago, Yoinkerman said:

They're not a couple.  I've been with Logan (in person) while he was talking to his gf and it wasn't her.

Part of the problem with people commenting on stuff they have no private information about.

 

Yeah I get it - a lot of the LTT and TS community seems to dislike Pistol. But holy shit - the things people were saying about her in the other thread that got locked - who do they think they are, judging someone and making up stories that "might be true". Seriously one person basically said "Well it might be true so prove me wrong" when saying something about Pistol.